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Apple Pay

George The Curious

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Nov 28, 2011
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Same with education while iOS users are more skewed to the educated.... 9% advantage among college grads, -14% for less than highschool when compared to Android.
Are you trying to say iOS users are smarter? It depends. It appears alot of doctors own iPhone. A lot of wallstreet traders own iPhone. A lot of business executives own iPhone. Are they tech. savvy? Probably not. But they all had graduate level education, more so than lowly paid technicians in IT department (basement workers).
 

kkelso

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Apr 27, 2003
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Are you trying to say iOS users are smarter? It depends. It appears alot of doctors own iPhone. A lot of wallstreet traders own iPhone. A lot of business executives own iPhone. Are they tech. savvy? Probably not. But they all had graduate level education, more so than lowly paid technicians in IT department (basement workers).
I don't think that's the connection with those particular groups. I'm in that same bracket and extremely tech-savvy. I own an iPhone because it does what it's supposed to do 99.99% of the time with no errors, no drama, no attention needed from me. I have an android tablet and I love screwing around with it, but my phone is my business lifeline. I need it to just work.

KK
 

George The Curious

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I don't think that's the connection with those particular groups. I'm in that same bracket and extremely tech-savvy. I own an iPhone because it does what it's supposed to do 99.99% of the time with no errors, no drama, no attention needed from me. I have an android tablet and I love screwing around with it, but my phone is my business lifeline. I need it to just work.

KK
What about rich kids and teenagers? They almost always go for iPhone - not that it's their business lifeline. I bet there is a substantial group of people owning Apple products because of its brand image / status symbol. They are also good targets of impulsive spending on app store games / inapp purchases etc.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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It's no news that rich can afford more iPhones than android. However I suspect most of them have iPhones as status symbols or try to fit in crowd. It would be more interesting to see iPhone vs android ownership among the tech savvy, it professionals etc.
What I find interesting is the android lead in the tech-savvy ages. I'm sure some of that has to do with economics though.
 

George The Curious

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What I find interesting is the android lead in the tech-savvy ages. I'm sure some of that has to do with economics though.
Tech savvy IT guy usually makes less than his less tech savvy managers. Most doctors and lawyers aren't tech savvy either. Generally speaking the more money you make the less tech savvy you need to be or too busy to be concerned with learning technology, can always get the IT guy to do it for you for fraction of cost than doing it yourself.
 

onthebottom

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Are you trying to say iOS users are smarter? It depends. It appears alot of doctors own iPhone. A lot of wallstreet traders own iPhone. A lot of business executives own iPhone. Are they tech. savvy? Probably not. But they all had graduate level education, more so than lowly paid technicians in IT department (basement workers).
Their more educated and financially successful - I dont. Know if that qualifies as smarter
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Tech savvy IT guy usually makes less than his less tech savvy managers. Most doctors and lawyers aren't tech savvy either. Generally speaking the more money you make the less tech savvy you need to be or too busy to be concerned with learning technology, can always get the IT guy to do it for you for fraction of cost than doing it yourself.
I was thinking more about the generation who grew up with cell phones or smart phones, not people who work in tech. They seem less enamored with apple phones.
 

George The Curious

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Pre smart phone era, technology used to be about capability - what you can do with it, and now it's shifting focus to convenience - how easy is it to do those things. Pre smart phone era, it was about if you can send a picture as email attachment, required setting up internet, email account, knowledge of file system, transferring JPEG file from digital camera to computer. Post-smart phone era: how easy and convenient is it for someone with zero computer skills to attach a selfie and share it with his friends.

Apple was super successful in realizing this philosophy and combing it with consumerism - people are willing to pay extra for this convenience and ease of use. - because their time is too valuable in trying to figure out how technology works. In doing so, the dividing line between technology worker and technology user / consumer become ever more clear and distinct.

In pre-smart phone era, technology users were most of the time technology workers, there were certain basics such as file system and difference between local hard drive and network drive were needed even for office secretary to working with Word documents. Nowadays, you don't need to even know what a file. More and more often, I run into people looking at me like I am an alien when I ask them where they put the file I sent them on email. - they have no concept of file system, directory structure etc. So they use specialized apps like Instagram just to organize and share pictures - whereas 10 years ago, it would been in a directory on harddrive - requiring no network access. Nowadays, every time you want to look at a picture, you need internet.

As distance between technology users / consumers and technology workers grow ever apart, it makes average user / consumer ever more stupid and inefficient user of technology. The technology workers have to work even more to satisfy the needs of these consumers. In a way it is creating an economic cycle that generates a lot of money for those who own the technology - such as high level management of these tech companies, but it really generates very little true value in terms of improving quality of life. Work hours do not decrease, but increase. People spend more and more on impulse micro-purchases on app-stores and in-app purchases, games etc. which in turn creating more keyboard monkey "app developer" jobs. All these activities tend to make you sit for a long time and avoid real social and physical activities - creating an ever more obese and depressed population glued to their gadgets.
 

George The Curious

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Technology is more fragmented today than ever before - just to satisfy the ever increasing apetite of consumerism. Small businesses like the one I own find it even more difficult to complete with large companies mostly because of basic required IT spending jumped 3 fold just to reach the same number of audience than 10 years ago. Before, you only needed to develop 1 program for PC / Windows, then a website. Now, you also need both iOS and Android apps, and a mobile website, and maybe even MacBook compatible program. The trend does not seem to converge. Android and iOS divide is not only in technological ideals, but also geographical one. For example, if you want to reach majority Indian population, you must have Android app.

Now if this Apple Pay becomes as dominating as PayPal, I find myself again having to spend on upgrading payment systems. I hope they fail I truly do. The good old PayPal and Credit card works great, why change?

So much for technology is supposed to make life easier, eh?
 

GameBoy27

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Nov 23, 2004
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Bump... Anyone using Apple Pay yet? Unless every retailer supports it so you'll still need to carry debit/credit or cash. So in that sense, I'm not sure what's so amazing about it.
 

glamphotographer

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Nov 5, 2011
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Will it be a good alternative to paypal? To receive payments via online via email address like paypal?
 

fuji

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In the US there is no chip & pin technology, and even chip & signature has low adoption. I don't believe the US is ever going to chip & pin. Tap and pay with credit card is also nearly unheard of though supposedly exists.

That means card fraud is still a big problem in the US, and I believe it will be solved by going directly to tap and pay with phone, skipping chip & pin entirely.

In Canada where chip&pin is now universal there is less pressure for things like applepay, Google wallet, PayPal app, etc.
 

onthebottom

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Bump... Anyone using Apple Pay yet? Unless every retailer supports it so you'll still need to carry debit/credit or cash. So in that sense, I'm not sure what's so amazing about it.
Sure many times, with a phone and a watch. Have also used in in Canada....
 

onthebottom

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In the US there is no chip & pin technology, and even chip & signature has low adoption. I don't believe the US is ever going to chip & pin. Tap and pay with credit card is also nearly unheard of though supposedly exists.

That means card fraud is still a big problem in the US, and I believe it will be solved by going directly to tap and pay with phone, skipping chip & pin entirely.

In Canada where chip&pin is now universal there is less pressure for things like applepay, Google wallet, PayPal app, etc.
Payments are shockingly bad in the US, regulation has just changed to put the liability on the merchant to drive EMV adoption.

NFC phone payments have dramaticly underachieved analyst predictions, while Apple Pay is the dominate phone payment platform it pales compared to tap n go for NFC payments.
 

fuji

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Payments are shockingly bad in the US, regulation has just changed to put the liability on the merchant to drive EMV adoption.

NFC phone payments have dramaticly underachieved analyst predictions, while Apple Pay is the dominate phone payment platform it pales compared to tap n go for NFC payments.
What is the rate of growth in adoption of each technology? My impression is that while phone payments are small, their rate of growth is enormous. And while the industry imposed card with chip payments may have way more transactions right now, the growth rate is much slower.

I think a lot of merchants are going to see phone payments as the future and leapfrog over card based solutons.

In other words, the technology wave is about to disrupt the payment industry and I think some of the big players won't survive.
 

onthebottom

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What is the rate of growth in adoption of each technology? My impression is that while phone payments are small, their rate of growth is enormous. And while the industry imposed card with chip payments may have way more transactions right now, the growth rate is much slower.

I think a lot of merchants are going to see phone payments as the future and leapfrog over card based solutons.

In other words, the technology wave is about to disrupt the payment industry and I think some of the big players won't survive.
Law of small numbers make growth rates misleading....

Some interesting data here: https://beijingtoday.com.cn/2016/03/apple-pay-aims-to-dethrone-alipay/

Only 1:5 Apple users use Apple Pay once a month - I'm sure it's a fraction of that for Andoid.
 

ExerciseGuy

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Jul 29, 2010
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I've been using Apple Pay with the watch for a while now and love how convenient it is. But, one of the restrictions was that I could only use it at places where Amex is accepted. I just saw that the Canadian banks have finally agreed to offer Apple Pay as well. So, adding my Visa should help significantly increase the number of places where I can use Apple Pay.
 
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