Spanking Your Child?
- Thread starter demien2k5
- Start date
Being taught fear does not lead to respect. Children should be taught respect for authority, but not through fear.So, to turn this discussion sideways a bit...a different way of looking at the issue: should children be taught/learn to fear, and therefore respect, the authority of their parents? If so, how do you instill that degree of healthy respect in a child too young to reason on his/her own?
Should cops be able to give us a smack up side the head for doing something stupid like text and driving? Will that teach us respect for authority, will that teach us to stop texting and driving?
Really? Quoting law at a time like this as prove of right or wrong? We have a law being inacted now that many of us know is not right, but hey since it is law, it doesn't matter???? Really????It does not matter what he thinks... it is the law that matters..
Section 43 of Criminal Code of Canada
The law assumes that spanking a child to ‘correct’ the child’s behavior is not against the law as long as the force used is reasonable. Section 43 of the Criminal Code of Canada provides a defence for parents, parent substitutes and teachers who used corporal punishment to discipline a child in their care and who have been charged with physically assaulting that child. This section of the Criminal Code is often referred to as “the spanking provision”.
Section 43 of Criminal Code of Canada.
Every schoolteacher, parent or person standing in the place of a parent is justified in using force by way of correction toward a pupil or child, as the case may be, who is under his care, if the force does not exceed what is reasonable under the circumstances.
http://www.legal-info-legale.nb.ca/en/spanking_disciplining_children
It does not matter what he thinks as the law has this covered. If it was this wrong surely somebody maybe titalian can ammend the code and bring some justice and civilization into our system and save all of our poor and abused kids who are being spanked. Somebody please help his poor soul.
As for BL, I gave up on that poster about 20 posts counts in. I knew there was something off right away. I skip his posts and his threads. I may have to go back and read now that all these juicy bits have come to light. LOL
I understand what you're saying Femme, but in this case, isn't respect for authority actually driven by an inherent fear of the consequences resulting from disobedience? Young children of spanking age are usually obedient not because they are able to rationalize right vs. wrong all on their own, but because the fear of being punished for their disobedience might result in a spanking. My question is how to instill that same 'fear' (i.e. respect) without the motivator being corporeal in nature.Being taught fear does not lead to respect. Children should be taught respect for authority, but not through fear.
Should cops be able to give us a smack up side the head for doing something stupid like text and driving? Will that teach us respect for authority, will that teach us to stop texting and driving?
Where the cops are concerned and respect for the law, we are motivated to obey by the same type of fear - fear of fines, restricted privileges, imprisonment, or in some cases death. But we are adults, and able to reason through our actions and consequences, so a smack in the head from a cop really is pointless, as we know there are harsher punishments with more serious and impactful consequences that could be executed. That said, in some countries, corporal punishment for adults still does exist for many crimes. Funny that....sad actually.
I understand what you're saying Femme, but in this case, isn't respect for authority actually driven by an inherent fear of the consequences resulting from disobedience? Young children of spanking age are usually obedient not because they are able to rationalize right vs. wrong all on their own, but because the fear of being punished for their disobedience might result in a spanking. My question is how to instill that same 'fear' (i.e. respect) without the motivator being corporeal in nature.
Where the cops are concerned and respect for the law, we are motivated to obey by the same type of fear - fear of fines, restricted privileges, imprisonment, or in some cases death. But we are adults, and able to reason through our actions and consequences, so a smack in the head from a cop really is pointless, as we know there are harsher punishments with more serious and impactful consequences that could be executed. That said, in some countries, corporal punishment for adults still does exist for many crimes. Funny that....sad actually.
Thank you for making my point. I think you mistake the word fear however. I am not afraid of a fine, I am not a afraid of imprisonment either. I dislike these things however. They are a pain in my ass, but I do not fear them. Maybe that is why I don't care about being involved in this industry.. I do not have respect for police as a whole either and I certainly do not fear them. I don't kill people because of my own thoughts and feelings on the subject. I think of the safety of those around me so I don't text and drive. My choices in life are not out of fear of anything.
This is why I do not think being afraid of parents is the key to parenting. I was horribly abused as a child. Nothing like the "go get the paddle" and you got a couple smacks on the ass. It was more like a smack across the face because I said something out of turn and then another, and maybe a punch, then the belt, then the soap in the mouth with blood and teeth marks all over them by the time it was done. Then more beating with the belt. Beats for me were a couple of times a week at least with it happening for hours at a time and turn taking between mom and step dad because they got tired. Days of not going to school because of the marks on me. Or having to wear long sleeves and jeans in spring. I am actually reminded of that Texas judge who beat his daughter with a belt. http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/04/justice/texas-beating-video/ When I saw that, I thought that was mild cause that is was I was getting at 4/5 years old up until I was 16 when it ended after my head was put through a window. I am and have been deaf in one ear from a beating when I was 10. I was scared of my mom and my step dad. That was fear. I didn't learn to respect my mother until 2 years before she died. I stopped fearing her 4 years before she died. Well into my 30ies.
I still have residual effects of that fear sometimes. When I wake up on Mother's day in a panic in my half dream state because I didn't do anything for her, then I remember she is passed, and I am not young, and the reality of world starts to refocus as I wake up. This is years after her death this still happens.
So no, I am not of the instill fear type in regards to parenting because it does not work in my opinion. Respect is taught when it is given, when it is accepted and when demanded in return. I have many parents come to me with questions and advice seeking. So many of them say, " I know, you would not put up that." I am auntie to more kids then a JK class in a over crowded school. I take kids who are not mine, and of no blood relation out for Auntie date days all the time. These kids respect me simply because I respect them and I show it. They listen to me because I listen to them. I don't or try not to use the word No. Doesn't mean I say to yes everything, but I don't give a simple no with out explanation. I state the reason it is not going to happen. I give a child choices that are age appropriate. Even if that choice is, you eat this on the plate, or you don't eat. They make the choice and they learn to live with the consequence to that action. They learn that if they eat when asked and how they are asked, they get the reward of dessert. Punishment is not teaching, it is showing a consequence for an action when natural consequence are often the better form of teaching. Don't eat, you go hungry. Not rocket science. Teaching happens all the time, not just when a child is acting out. When a natural consequence is more dangerous then mistake the child is making, like running out into a road, you give an explanation of what the natural consequence could be while giving an appropriate consequence so the child learns.
I did learned my technique of parenting, through research, trail and error and out of a need to not do what was done to me. I was not simply spanked, I was beaten. Spanking still made no sense to me. How do I teach a child not to hit, to keep hands off people, when I put my hands on them? I am contradicting my own teachings.
There is a way, with most kids, to teach and parent without the need of spanking. There are kids with behavioral issue stemming form mental illness, and that is different. Even more so, spanking is not the tool to use with those types of kids. And yes, some one pointed out that sometimes the child born is a the spawn of satin and there is nothing you can do. There are serial killers born to loving, two parent homes and that is not the fault of the parents. Spanking those kids would do no good either. Not in the long run.
Fear in parenting is not the answer in my opinion. I think respect is the way to go and that is only done when you give it. I think parents need to stop thinking that children must obey blinding and that kids are kids. Kids are people, little people who need teaching, but people all the same and they deserve to be treated as people. We don't spank people, because it doesn't work. We shouldn't spank kids.
That is me on that topic.
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Awesome response! Lots to think about here - thanks for sharing that! :thumb:Thank you for making my point. I think you mistake the word fear however. I am not afraid of a fine, I am not a afraid of imprisonment either. I dislike these things however. They are a pain in my ass, but I do not fear them. Maybe that is why I don't care about being involved in this industry.. I do not have respect for police as a whole either and I certainly do not fear them. I don't kill people because of my own thoughts and feelings on the subject. I think of the safety of those around me so I don't text and drive. My choices in life are not out of fear of anything.
This is why I do not think being afraid of parents is the key to parenting. I was horribly abused as a child. Nothing like the "go get the paddle" and you got a couple smacks on the ass. It was more like a smack across the face because I said something out of turn and then another, and maybe a punch, then the belt, then the soap in the mouth with blood and teeth marks all over them by the time it was done. Then more beating with the belt. Beats for me were a couple of times a week at least with it happening for hours at a time and turn taking between mom and step dad because they got tired. Days of not going to school because of the marks on me. Or having to wear long sleeves and jeans in spring. I am actually reminded of that Texas judge who beat his daughter with a belt. http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/04/justice/texas-beating-video/ When I saw that, I thought that was mild cause that is was I was getting at 4/5 years old up until I was 16 when it ended after my head was put through a window. I am and have been deaf in one ear from a beating when I was 10. I was scared of my mom and my step dad. That was fear. I didn't learn to respect my mother until 2 years before she died. I stopped fearing her 4 years before she died. Well into my 30ies.
I still have residual effects of that fear sometimes. When I wake up on Mother's day in a panic in my half dream state because I didn't do anything for her, then I remember she is passed, and I am not young, and the reality of world started to refocus as I wake up. This is years after her death this still happens.
So no, I am not of the instill fear type in regards to parenting because it does not work in my opinion. Respect is taught when it is given, when it is accepted and when demanded in return. I have many parents come to me with questions and advice. So many of them say, " I know, you would not put up that." I am auntie to more kids then a JK class in a over crowded school. I take kids who are not mine, and of no blood relation out for Auntie date days all the time. These kids respect me simply because I respect them and I show it. They listen to me because I listen to them. I don't or try not to use the word No. Doesn't mean I say to everything, but I don't give a simple no with out explanation. I state the reason it is not going to happen. I give a child choices that are age appropriate. Even if that choice is, you eat this on the plate, or you don't eat. They make the choice and they learn to live with the consequence to that action. They learn that if they eat when asked and how they are asked, they get the reward of dessert. Punishment is not teaching, it is showing a consequence for an action when natural consequence are often the better form of teaching. Don't eat, you go hungry. Not rocket science. Teaching happens all the time, not just when a child is acting out. When a natural consequence is more dangerous then mistake the child is making, like running out into a road, you give an explanation of what the natural consequence could be while giving an appropriate consequence so the child learns.
I did learned my technique of parenting, through research, trail and error and out of a need to not do what was done to me. I was not simply spanked, I was beaten. Spanking still made no sense to me. How do I teach a child not to hit, to keep hands off people, when I put my hands on them? I am contradicting my own teachings.
There is a way, with most kids, to teach and parent without the need of spanking. There are kids with behavioral issue stemming form mental illness, and that is different. Even more so, spanking is not the tool to use with those types of kids. And yes, some one pointed out that sometime the child born is a the spawn of satin and there is nothing you can do. There are serial killers born to loving, two parent homes and that is not the fault of the parents. Spanking those kids would do no good either. Not in the long run.
Fear in parenting is not the answer in my opinion. I think respect is the way to go and that is only done when you give it. I think parents need to stop thinking that children must obey binding and that kids are kids. Kids are people, little people who need teaching, but people all the same and they deserve to be treated as people. We don't spank people, because it doesn't work. We shouldn't spank kids.
That is me on that topic.
Certainly what happened to you wasn't parenting at all, and "fear" is an understatement, you were terrorized.I am and have been deaf in one ear from a beating when I was 10. I was scared of my mom and my step dad. That was fear
...
So no, I am not of the instill fear type in regards to parenting because it does not work in my opinion.
To me the difference is anger/rage/aggression, that emotion should never be directed at a child. Disappointment is the emotion that should accompany discipline, and while annoyance is only human it should never be the basis of punishment. Even if aggression isn't accompanied by violence it is inappropriate, say a parent ripping a toy out of a child's hand and destroying it in a fit of anger, the child will pick up on the aggression.
Whatever punishment is delivered must be accompanied by a genuine concern for the well-being of the child, and when that is true, I think the child knows it too, whether the punishment is something withheld or a spanking, kids pick up pretty clearly on the emotional state of their parent and can tell the difference between love/disappointment and anger/aggression.
I am with you on the whole hobby law thing and am very frustrated and upset becuase this hobby is such a huge part of who I secretly am. I get a lot from fellow hobbyists and ladies on here so I am with you on this one. However, just becuase we do not agree with a particular law does not mean that we should loose complete faith in the system or undermine all other laws. There is a process to change laws, although very difficult, they can be changed, ammended etc...we will always have criticism about the law. It will never make everybody happy. However generally they work and I still think Canada, especially Toronto is one of the best palces to live in this world.
Because you post respectfully I can only respect your point of view and your opinion and acknowledged that this is how you choose to live. W.R.T. titalian he comes across as arrogant trying to put people down and paint them as abusers or less worthy becuase they spank and try to compare them to the animals of some arabic countries etc...His tone does not sound respectful to others who do not share his point of view and thus is why I choose to go after him.
The only thing that we have a common ground is the law. If we did as we feel there would be chaos and disorder.
The spanking thing is so minor in my eyes that it is not worth getting upset about. However somebody who got abused as a kid will probably not see it like this and due to trama or other reasons may view people who spank mayne even 1ce a year as abusers and get angry with them. Although this is filled with personal bias, it is wrong to project onto others if you want to have an objective discussion and carry respect. Each time a personal feeling gets involved, the discussion quickly turns and looses focs.
So yes I agree we have our differences but people who spank are not abusers and it is not right for anybody to disrecpect people who spank because they may feel steongly that l spanking is wrong. It is just how they choose to live. Honestly I have not read your previous posts to know where you stand as I am at work...I will look at your posts later tonight as you seem to have valid and interestimg points to consider and provide my comment.
Because you post respectfully I can only respect your point of view and your opinion and acknowledged that this is how you choose to live. W.R.T. titalian he comes across as arrogant trying to put people down and paint them as abusers or less worthy becuase they spank and try to compare them to the animals of some arabic countries etc...His tone does not sound respectful to others who do not share his point of view and thus is why I choose to go after him.
The only thing that we have a common ground is the law. If we did as we feel there would be chaos and disorder.
The spanking thing is so minor in my eyes that it is not worth getting upset about. However somebody who got abused as a kid will probably not see it like this and due to trama or other reasons may view people who spank mayne even 1ce a year as abusers and get angry with them. Although this is filled with personal bias, it is wrong to project onto others if you want to have an objective discussion and carry respect. Each time a personal feeling gets involved, the discussion quickly turns and looses focs.
So yes I agree we have our differences but people who spank are not abusers and it is not right for anybody to disrecpect people who spank because they may feel steongly that l spanking is wrong. It is just how they choose to live. Honestly I have not read your previous posts to know where you stand as I am at work...I will look at your posts later tonight as you seem to have valid and interestimg points to consider and provide my comment.
Being taught fear does not lead to respect. Children should be taught respect for authority, but not through fear.
Should cops be able to give us a smack up side the head for doing something stupid like text and driving? Will that teach us respect for authority, will that teach us to stop texting and driving?
Really? Quoting law at a time like this as prove of right or wrong? We have a law being inacted now that many of us know is not right, but hey since it is law, it doesn't matter???? Really????
As for BL, I gave up on that poster about 20 posts counts in. I knew there was something off right away. I skip his posts and his threads. I may have to go back and read now that all these juicy bits have come to light. LOL
I'm not trying to be arrogant here. Yes Maybe I am a little outspoken but just maybe its because I experienced it, when I was young, Fortunately it stopped when I hit my teens.I am with you on the whole hobby law thing and am very frustrated and upset becuase this hobby is such a huge part of who I secretly am. I get a lot from fellow hobbyists and ladies on here so I am with you on this one. However, just becuase we do not agree with a particular law does not mean that we should loose complete faith in the system or undermine all other laws. There is a process to change laws, although very difficult, they can be changed, ammended etc...we will always have criticism about the law. It will never make everybody happy. However generally they work and I still think Canada, especially Toronto is one of the best palces to live in this world.
Because you post respectfully I can only respect your point of view and your opinion and acknowledged that this is how you choose to live. W.R.T. titalian he comes across as arrogant trying to put people down and paint them as abusers or less worthy becuase they spank and try to compare them to the animals of some arabic countries etc...His tone does not sound respectful to others who do not share his point of view and thus is why I choose to go after him.
The only thing that we have a common ground is the law. If we did as we feel there would be chaos and disorder.
The spanking thing is so minor in my eyes that it is not worth getting upset about. However somebody who got abused as a kid will probably not see it like this and due to trama or other reasons may view people who spank mayne even 1ce a year as abusers and get angry with them. Although this is filled with personal bias, it is wrong to project onto others if you want to have an objective discussion and carry respect. Each time a personal feeling gets involved, the discussion quickly turns and looses focs.
So yes I agree we have our differences but people who spank are not abusers and it is not right for anybody to disrecpect people who spank because they may feel steongly that l spanking is wrong. It is just how they choose to live. Honestly I have not read your previous posts to know where you stand as I am at work...I will look at your posts later tonight as you seem to have valid and interestimg points to consider and provide my comment.
I am 100% for dicipline, but I feel there's other ways to skin a cat other than spanking.
Thanks for clarifying that and I am sorry you went through this. Ever since I was young I knew I have it in me to go after people who abuse others, the abusers, just like the story with my dad. I will rethink and reread everything you have said now that I know where you are coming from. Trust me I am on your side even though I may not see what u see now. Sometime people change if they can get convinced enough. Stay strong.
I'm not trying to be arrogant here. Yes Maybe I am a little outspoken but just maybe its because I experienced it, when I was young, Fortunately it stopped when I hit my teens.
I am 100% for dicipline, but I feel there's other ways to skin a cat other than spanking.
Thank you for that !! Stay strong, as well !!!Thanks for clarifying that and I am sorry you went through this. Ever since I was young I knew I have it in me to go after people who abuse others, the abusers, just like the story with my dad. I will rethink and reread everything you have said now that I know where you are coming from. Trust me I am on your side even though I may not see what u see now. Sometime people change if they can get convinced enough. Stay strong.
I am with you on the whole hobby law thing and am very frustrated and upset becuase this hobby is such a huge part of who I secretly am. I get a lot from fellow hobbyists and ladies on here so I am with you on this one. However, just becuase we do not agree with a particular law does not mean that we should loose complete faith in the system or undermine all other laws. There is a process to change laws, although very difficult, they can be changed, ammended etc...we will always have criticism about the law. It will never make everybody happy. However generally they work and I still think Canada, especially Toronto is one of the best palces to live in this world.
Because you post respectfully I can only respect your point of view and your opinion and acknowledged that this is how you choose to live. W.R.T. titalian he comes across as arrogant trying to put people down and paint them as abusers or less worthy becuase they spank and try to compare them to the animals of some arabic countries etc...His tone does not sound respectful to others who do not share his point of view and thus is why I choose to go after him.
The only thing that we have a common ground is the law. If we did as we feel there would be chaos and disorder.
The spanking thing is so minor in my eyes that it is not worth getting upset about. However somebody who got abused as a kid will probably not see it like this and due to trama or other reasons may view people who spank mayne even 1ce a year as abusers and get angry with them. Although this is filled with personal bias, it is wrong to project onto others if you want to have an objective discussion and carry respect. Each time a personal feeling gets involved, the discussion quickly turns and looses focs.
So yes I agree we have our differences but people who spank are not abusers and it is not right for anybody to disrecpect people who spank because they may feel steongly that l spanking is wrong. It is just how they choose to live. Honestly I have not read your previous posts to know where you stand as I am at work...I will look at your posts later tonight as you seem to have valid and interestimg points to consider and provide my comment.
I don't know where I said anything remotely like that. I was abused, I know the difference. I have never judged someone who spanks their children. I understand their beliefs for doing so, and as they are not my children, I am not getting involved.
I do feel spanking is wrong for many reasons and not because of my past abuse. As I said, I know the difference between a properly given spanking and abuse. My point regarding right and wrong was the law books being brought into the debate because we all know that laws are not always written for right and wrong, but for what the government wants at the time it is enacted.
Obviously I know where your going with this question, I called an eye for an eye !!! Never works with these characters !!Here is a question for the child rearing experts.
What do you do with a 5 year old son who hits his little sister and kicks his mother in the shins?
An exorcism.
but the new age child psych "spare the rod" types will blame you for raising such a child.
but the new age child psych "spare the rod" types will blame you for raising such a child.
Here is a question for the child rearing experts.
What do you do with a 5 year old son who hits his little sister and kicks his mother in the shins?
LOL! Yeah just take him to a psych and pump him
full of drugs once they assign a condition to him and steal our hard earned tax dolla. Just make it somebody elses problem.lol
full of drugs once they assign a condition to him and steal our hard earned tax dolla. Just make it somebody elses problem.lol
An exorcism.
but the new age child psych "spare the rod" types will blame you for raising such a child.
Na that won't work, this little narcissist needs some down time. Put him to bed early every night for a week.LOL! Yeah just take him to a psych and pump him
full of drugs once they assign a condition to him and steal our hard earned tax dolla. Just make it somebody elses problem.lol
See what happens (again you need patients) What he will realise in the end, is that there are consequences to his actions.
I'm not sure if people realise that children in the early years are naturally narcissistic some worse than others, and what I mean by that is
needing full attention especially in this case and also some worse than others That's why he acts out the way he does.
Attention !!!! Take the attention away for little bit, he'll settle down.. I went through this with my daughter not as bad, but she was defiant !!
And it got to a point where I had to take drastic measures. But in no way physical.
For my kid the most effective punishment is taking away the ipad an putting the lock code on it and a time out followed by a talking to. For severe offences the ipad gets taken away for 1 month, bad offences is 1 week, and little outbursts of brattiness is a day or two. For the scenario deacribed I would give my kid maybe a week or two without ipad. If it was a severe impact it would go up to a month of no ipad. Overal, this works for us but not typical I guess.
Na that won't work, this little narcissist needs some down time. Put him to bed early every night for a week.
See what happens (again you need patients) What he will realise in the end, is that there are consequences to his actions.
I'm not sure if people realise that children in the early years are naturally narcissistic some worse than others, and what I mean by that is
needing full attention especially in this case and also some worse than others That's why he acts out the way he does.
Attention !!!! Take the attention away for little bit, he'll settle down.. I went through this with my daughter not as bad, but she was defiant !!
And it got to a point where I had to take drastic measures. But in no way physical.
I agree, that works fully for children who can handle an ipad and who are little older than five if I'm not mistaken.For my kid the most effective punishment is taking away the ipad an putting the lock code on it and a time out followed by a talking to. For severe offences the ipad gets taken away for 1 month, bad offences is 1 week, and little outbursts of brattiness is a day or two. For the scenario deacribed I would give my kid maybe a week or two without ipad. If it was a severe impact it would go up to a month of no ipad. Overal, this works for us but not typical I guess.
The poster was referring to a five year old, which makes it a little more tedious to deal with.
At that age and the way he has described his actions, attention, is what he is seeking, but in a wrong way.
The goal here is, hopefully, by taking him away from his source of attention, for a little
while, and I mean what he's not accustomed to, will instinctively make him realise, what he is doing,
just ain't working and will get into sync with the family unit sooner or later.. What I must reiterate here
is, it does take patients and love, And why not. They are, after all, the most precious part, of us all.
Here is a question for the child rearing experts.
What do you do with a 5 year old son who hits his little sister and kicks his mother in the shins?
Depends on the timing, the environment, the situation and the reasoning behind it. I can't simply tell you on a board when I have no idea why the child feels they can do that in the first place. There is a reason for his actions and that is what you have to get to, not just hit it out of him.
I did know a child who did some similar stuff. The child was a older then 5 and mom was a single mom. We got a teen to go to the park one day and start to accost the mother, bully her, yell at her and finally to strike her. When the child went to defend his mother, that is when we stopped and we pointed out everything that the bullying teen was doing was everything he did to his mother himself. He never did it again. Nothing else worked up to that point so we went a little unconventional. Him seeing his behaviour through the actions of someone else made him think and that made him want to change that. He was 9 but the point remains, not everything needs to be done text book, but thinking outside the box can make the difference. Spanking that 9 year old would not have taught him a thing. This did.
Good luck.
