Job Well Done - by Zionist Standards

George The Curious

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Nov 28, 2011
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Hamas bears full responsibility for the situation in Gaza today. If that's what the Palestinians want, so be it.
In real world of war, it's not about who is at fault, it's about how to end a conflict quickly. Isreal is not doing a good job ending the war despite it has far superior firepower. If majority Palestinians are behind the terrorists then Israel should just be more aggressive. See how Americans dealt with Japanese in ww2 when majority Japanese were supporting a facist government.
 

Moviefan-2

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Oct 17, 2011
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In real world of war, it's not about who is at fault, it's about how to end a conflict quickly.
It's difficult to imagine how Israel can end the conflict when it is protecting itself from a terrorist organization that is driven by its fanatical hatred of Jews.

Gaza is the perfect example. Israel ended the occupation, opened the borders and provided opportunities for the Palestinians to create economic growth.

Hamas responded by neglecting the welfare of the Palestinians and using the open borders to escalate terrorist attacks on Israel.
 

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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In real world of war, it's not about who is at fault, it's about how to end a conflict quickly. Isreal is not doing a good job ending the war despite it has far superior firepower. If majority Palestinians are behind the terrorists then Israel should just be more aggressive. See how Americans dealt with Japanese in ww2 when majority Japanese were supporting a facist government.

Being more aggressive means full on genocide.
There will never be a solution until the occupation is ended and either a legit two state solution or a one state solution with equal rights occurs.
50 years of colonization and aggression hasn't worked yet, they should just settle.
 

fuji

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She didn't say 'from the hospital' she said somewhere behind the hospital.
Her original statement made it even clearer. In any case, the rockets were fired from right next to the hospital turning all the patients into human shields.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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There will never be a solution until the occupation is ended and either a legit two state solution or a one state solution with equal rights occurs.
...
Sounds like typical groggy logic. Give the Palestinians their own state and then they might make peace.

Of course Hamas is outright opposed to either a two state or an egalitarian one state solution but don't let that little fact interfere with your diatribe (or egads, actually criticize Hamas).
 

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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Her original statement made it even clearer. In any case, the rockets were fired from right next to the hospital turning all the patients into human shields.
No they weren't.
You are doing exactly what she said should not be done with her statement:
Using it to justify attacking civilians, or justifying terrorism.


Regardless, even if your accusations were true it is still a war crime to hit UN refugee buildings, schools and hospitals.
You are still backing war crimes, even with your claims (which are unsupported)
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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You are doing exactly what she said should not be done with her statement:
Using it to justify attacking civilians, or justifying terrorism.
No, actually, he is using it to corroborate that the accusation that Hamas uses "human shields" is accurate.
 

groggy

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No, actually, he is using it to corroborate that the accusation that Hamas uses "human shields" is accurate.

Bring on the ICC, let those charges stand as well as all charges against Israel.
Today they turned a 48 apartment building into dust.
Let Israel defend that action at the ICC.


As 347 Holocaust survivors and their families just said:
"Jewish survivors and descendants of survivors and victims of Nazi genocide unequivocally condemn the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza

"As Jewish survivors and descendants of survivors and victims of the Nazi genocide we unequivocally condemn the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza and the ongoing occupation and colonization of historic Palestine. We further condemn the United States for providing Israel with the funding to carry out the attack, and Western states more generally for using their diplomatic muscle to protect Israel from condemnation. Genocide begins with the silence of the world.

"We are alarmed by the extreme, racist dehumanization of Palestinians in Israeli society, which has reached a fever-pitch. In Israel, politicians and pundits in The Times of Israel and The Jerusalem Post have called openly for genocide of Palestinians and right-wing Israelis are adopting Neo-Nazi insignia.

"Furthermore, we are disgusted and outraged by Elie Wiesel’s abuse of our history in these pages to justify the unjustifiable: Israel’s wholesale effort to destroy Gaza and the murder of more than 2,000 Palestinians, including many hundreds of children. Nothing can justify bombing UN shelters, homes, hospitals and universities. Nothing can justify depriving people of electricity and water.

"We must raise our collective voices and use our collective power to bring about an end to all forms of racism, including the ongoing genocide of Palestinian people. We call for an immediate end to the siege against and blockade of Gaza. We call for the full economic, cultural and academic boycott of Israel. “Never again” must mean NEVER AGAIN FOR ANYONE!"
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.612072

That is entirely in line with the views of the vast majority of my Jewish friends.
 

Moviefan-2

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Oct 17, 2011
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Bring on the ICC, let those charges stand as well as all charges against Israel.
You're evading the issue.

Do you accept the evidence provided by impartial journalists that Hamas is using human shields? Yes or no.
 

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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You're evading the issue.

Do you accept the evidence provided by impartial journalists that Hamas is using human shields? Yes or no.
What evidence?
You have provided none.


Listen to the words of those 347 Holocaust survivors and their families.

Never again” must mean NEVER AGAIN FOR ANYONE!"
 

fuji

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Groggy in full denial, despite a half dozen reporters and a couple of videos he is incapable of ever admitting the truth.

Really this highlights the extent to which ant Israeli propaganda is based on dishonesty. Groggy is the poster child for the sort of pathological lying it takes to support Hamas.
 
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Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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Groggy is the poster child for the sort of pathological lying it takes to support Hamas.
I'm still stunned by the post where Groggy claimed Hamas was building tunnels to protect Palestinians from attacks.

Surely, he doesn't really believe that.
 

gladheateher

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Feb 13, 2004
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ass clown

According to the UN, as of Aug 21:

475 Palestinian children have been killed.
3000 Palestinian children have been wounded
1000 Palestinian children will suffer a life long disability
Up to 1500 Palestinian children have been orphaned
Up to 6000 Palestinian children will have a parent with a life long disability

http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_sitrep_21_08_2014.pdf

Here's someone who just about got "greased":

http://f8wee1vvia32pdxo527grujy61.w...t/uploads/2014/08/180714_ezz_00_4-580x392.jpg
Insignificant piss ant,

Let me ask you something: after 8,720 posts have you made one bit of difference? If you feel so strongly about the cause, go over to Gaza and join your Ham-Asshole brothers ?. Yeah, that's what I thought ...
 

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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The first article contains no eyewitness accounts, only opinions.
The Youtube video has a translation with the words 'human shields' in brackets as they talk about Palestinians defending their homes bare chested. It doesn't say what you claim.
The third link goes to an article that has nothing to do with human shields.

You failed to provide any evidence.

The human shield myth, or the 'telegenic dead' myth is pretty lame.
Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields. The Bani Sobeila area, near Khan Younis, where the Abu Jamaa deaths took place received leaflets dropped from the air last week warning them to leave.

But almost all stayed. One reason for that was many of the houses belonged to the Abu Jamaa clan who felt there was safety in staying together. Another reason was given by a neighbour, Abdullah al-Daweish: “Where do we go to? Some people moved from the outer edge of Khan Younis to Khan Younis centre after Israelis told them to, then the centre got bombed. People have moved from this area to Gaza City, and Gaza City has been bombed. It’s not Hamas who is ordering us in this, it’s the Israelis.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-the-myth-of-hamass-human-shield-9619810.html

Jeremy Bowen, BBC Middle East editor: "I saw no evidence during my week in Gaza of Israel's accusation that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields." The Guardian: "In the past week, the Guardian has seen large numbers of people fleeing different neighbourhoods.. and no evidence that Hamas had compelled them to stay." The Independent: "Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields." Reuters, 2013: "A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields."
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/gaza-israel_b_5624401.html

Yousef Munayyer, executive director of the Jerusalem Fund, says the claim that Palestinians use civilians as human shields is a myth, and also racist.

On MSNBC, he responded to a clip of a spokesperson for Netanyahu, who said that Hamas urged its citizens to stay in combat areas despite warnings from Israel.

“It’s unfortunate we can hear Israeli spokespeople who are speaking on behalf of a military force that is inflicting massive civilian casualties on the ground stand here in front of your viewers and essentially blame the victims for their own deaths,” he said. “I think there’s something fundamentally wrong and, in fact, racist about that argument.”

Munayyer said that the claim that Hamas uses human shields is not a new one, but something he’s heard “time and time again.” He noted an Amnesty International investigation from a couple of years ago which claimed that there was no evidence of the claim. Instead, “they found Israeli ground troops were using Palestinians as human shields,” he said.

During war time, Munayyer continued, it is very easy for Israelis “to make up info graphics and whatever else to claim Palestinians, you know, just want to stand in front of Israeli missiles.”
http://www.nationalreview.com/corne...-uses-human-shields-racist-myth-molly-wharton

After the investigations from the last slaughter the UN and Amnesty investigated both sides and found only Israel used human shields.
Up until 2005 it was IDF policy, since then its supposed to be banned, but there many, many youtube videos that show real examples of the use of human shields.

Examples of IDF using human shields.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WNfsFbNsPs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXq57XK2L0A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRQcTPIaETE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkEzJZGNyMI
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...735YXagdqBerSy-3B30KJzA&bvm=bv.73612305,d.aWw
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...0w5P6WyjDS31huPlZom4X6A&bvm=bv.73612305,d.aWw
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...QsXTNIM4-n4Sf6YRWNMWHJQ&bvm=bv.73612305,d.aWw
 

fuji

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Meanwhile there are a half dozen media reports of Hamas firing rockets from crowded civilian places like a hospital.

Groggy denying the news just shows that everything you write is dishonest.
 

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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Meanwhile there are a half dozen media reports of Hamas firing rockets from crowded civilian places like a hospital.

Groggy denying the news just shows that everything you write is dishonest.

You haven't shown any legit ones.
All we've seen is the IDF makes accusations every time they are confronted.
Like this one that they finally retracted.
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/israel-retract-false-allegation


Should any real examples surface I'll fully support that those guilty be charged by the ICC, on both sides.
Why do you refuse to join calls for legal actions on anyone who uses human shields?
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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You haven't shown any legit ones.
All we've seen is the IDF makes accusations every time they are confronted.
Like this one that they finally retracted.
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/israel-retract-false-allegation


Should any real examples surface I'll fully support that those guilty be charged by the ICC, on both sides.
Why do you refuse to join calls for legal actions on anyone who uses human shields?
Holy shit I am amazed by the intentional blindness this guy goes through to defend Hamas. Multiple directly witnessed by a half dozen reporters. The words of the Archbishop of Gaza. The word of the Foreign Press Association. All somehow are really from the IDF.




p.s. Does it make things better that it was a Hamas run shelter they fired from rather than a UNRWA one?
 
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