Bill C-36 tabled (New Prostitution Law)

[fuji]

This law is very overbroad and poorly drafted. They took out references to "prostitution" and changed it to "sexual services" which really could include lap dancing and erotic massages.

The political objective of the Conservatives is to show the religious right that they are willing to legislate morality. Doing it on abortion or same sex marriage would be political suicide. But on prostitution they figure they can fully theocratic and nobody will seriously fight back.

Vaguely worded criminal laws are political gold for the Conservatives. They can play it up as draconian as heck in church, and waffle about what it really means in a court challenge.

They don't even care if a majority of Canadians object, so long as a majority won't make it a primary voting issue. It gets the bible thumpers to the polls next election.

 

[lovelatinas]

Escorts start advertising $250 gourmet muffins and throw in the sex for free.

 

[saliksalik]

My assumption is that TERB being a Forum of private members whose identities are not disclosed will the right place to advertise, as it is not public. May be the Escort Services section should also move to members only. Some of the agencies told me in the past that they do not rely on TERB for business. It may now make TERB a critical channel and agencies will have to respect the members and reviews. May be, just may be.

 

[fuji]

Those of you who wondered where the fabled hidden agenda was. HERE IT IS.

 

[omegaphallic]

https://storify.com/CharlesMicah/nd...gback&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=sfy.co-twitter

This is comments from Francios Boivin who for those who don't know is the Justice Critic for her Majesty's Official Opposition the NDP.

She does not think it will servive a court challenge and that it goes well past the Nordic model. If this is the thoughts of the NDPs Justice Critic then I doubt the NDP will be supporting this bill, which honestly maybe the real reason the Tories wrote this poorly written piece of shit, in the hopes of making the bill so odious that no one, even in a free vote within the NDP will support it, and thier for make the NDP out to be supporting prostitution.

 

[lovelatinas]

I don't see anything said about review board membership or reviews except that reviews may be interpreted as advertising for someone else and hence illegal?? (if positive review). I am no expert but it is vague for me in fact I know about the new laws as much as I knew last night. No surprise there as far as criminalizing pimps and johns but none of the questions I had (like what is sex, what will happen to dancers, private dancing, boards, reviews. membership, Massage Parlours, strip bars, escort agencies, text messaging....... STILL as dark as last night.

Which is why it will get struck down by the SCC. Strip clubs will continue to operate.

 

[wilbur]

286.4 Everyone who knowingly advertises an offer to provide sexual services for consideration
is guilty of

(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than 18 months.

286.5

(1) No person shall be prosecuted for

(b) an offence under section 286.4 in relation to the advertisement of their own sexual services.

(2) No person shall be prosecuted for aiding, abetting, conspiring or attempting to commit an offence under any of sections 286.1 to 286.4 or being an accessory after the fact or counselling
a person to be a party to such an offence, if the offence relates to the offering or provision of their own sexual services.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the medium (Backpage, TERB, the want ads) are assumed to be third parties, so guilty of the offense of knowingly advertising an offer that is for someone else, sex-workers might have to resort to putting up flyers on telephone poles. Even sticking notes on supermarket bulletin boards could make owners liable if they are not diligent in removing them.

How ironic it would be to have city-wide internet advertising banned, and sex-workers resorting to flyers on telephone poles or flyers dropped in mail boxes.

 

[afterhours]

by the way I have always found it strange that people have difficulty defining sexual services. Seems pretty easy to do.

Jules: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Stop right there. Eating a bitch out and giving a bitch a foot massage ain't even the same fucking thing.
Vincent: It's not. It's the same ballpark.
Jules: Ain't no fucking ballpark neither. Now, look, maybe your method of massage differs from mine, but, you know, touching his wife's feet and sticking your tongue in the holiest of holies ain't the same fucking ballpark. It ain't the same league. It ain't even the same fucking sport. Look, foot massages don't mean shit.
Vincent: Have you ever given a foot massage?
Jules: Don't be telling me about foot massages, I'm the foot fuckin' master.
Vincent: Given a lot of them?
Jules: Shit, yeah. I got my technique down and everything, I don't be tickling or nothing.
Vincent: Would you give a guy a foot massage?
Jules: [pause] Fuck you.
Vincent: You give them a lot?
Jules: Fuck you.
Vincent: You know, I'm getting kinda tired, I could use a foot massage myself.
Jules: Yo, yo, yo, man, you best back off. I'm getting pissed here.

 

[lovelatinas]

Is the law retroactive ?

I don't think so. They go back and re-write it and propose a new bill.

 

[DigitallyYours]

The political objective of the Conservatives is to show the religious right that they are willing to legislate morality. Doing it on abortion or same sex marriage would be political suicide. But on prostitution they figure they can fully theocratic and nobody will seriously fight back.

Vaguely worded criminal laws are political gold for the Conservatives. They can play it up as draconian as heck in church, and waffle about what it really means in a court challenge.

They don't even care if a majority of Canadians object, so long as a majority won't make it a primary voting issue. It gets the bible thumpers to the polls next election.

Yeah. Seriously, this bill is really effed up. There is no mention of "prostitution" and instead talks about sexual services. There is a body of jurisprudence on what prostitution is and virtually none on sexual services. They basically decided to declare war on *all* sex work.

 

[DigitallyYours]

Escorts start advertising $250 gourmet muffins and throw in the sex for free.

And I'm sure the escort wouldn't mind if I paid her with bitcoins.

 

[lovelatinas]

https://storify.com/CharlesMicah/nd...gback&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=sfy.co-twitter

This is comments from Francios Boivin who for those who don't know is the Justice Critic for her Majesty's Official Opposition the NDP.

She does not think it will servive a court challenge and that it goes well past the Nordic model. If this is the thoughts of the NDPs Justice Critic then I doubt the NDP will be supporting this bill, which honestly maybe the real reason the Tories wrote this poorly written piece of shit, in the hopes of making the bill so odious that no one, even in a free vote within the NDP will support it, and thier for make the NDP out to be supporting prostitution.

So it's the Conservatives being strategic for the next election? Attracting religious, moralist and female voters? Because it is a vague piece of crap that NDP will turn down.

 

[lovelatinas]

Also the word "Consideration", they haven't defined "Consideration" what do they mean by the word consideration? Consideration being that I give her $300 for having sex with me? Consideration because she had sex with because of my good looks? Consideration because she had sex with me since I fixed her car?

 

[wilbur]

Since Backpage is based in the U.S., how would this be prosecuted?

There is a Canadian section of Backpage. It may be based in the US, but I'm sure US authorities would find a way of silencing them as a result of a complaint from Canadian authorities. It would be a complaint that a US company is counselling to break Canadian law. Ultimately, Canada could request the extradition of the owners to Canada for prosecution.

If you break US law while in Canada, they can request extradition to the US. This was the case where a Canadian mining company that was accused to be in violation of the US embargo on Cuba. Their executives never set foot in the US, but the US applied their law extraterritorially nevertheless.

 

[lovelatinas]

Yeah. Seriously, this bill is really effed up. There is no mention of "prostitution" and instead talks about sexual services. There is a body of jurisprudence on what prostitution is and virtually none on sexual services. They basically decided to declare war on *all* sex work.

Yeah tell me about it. If they are talking about sex workers then they are also taking about webcam girls who strip naked and masturbate over the internet to a guy so he can masturbate is that defined as sexual services?

 

[fuji]

Also the word "Consideration", they haven't defined "Consideration" what do they mean by the word consideration? Consideration being that I give her $300 for having sex with me? Consideration because she had sex with because of my good looks? Consideration because sex had with me since I fixed her car?

Common law pretty well defines consideration to mean anything of value, whether cash or barter.

 

[wilbur]

Also the word "Consideration", they haven't defined "Consideration" what do they mean by the word consideration? Consideration being that I give her $300 for having sex with me? Consideration because she had sex with because of my good looks? Consideration because she had sex with me since I fixed her car?

A consideration is well defined in Criminal law.

"Some right, interest, profit or benefit accruing to the one party of a contract"

In the case of money or fixing her car, those are considerations.

 

[GPIDEAL]

If you see regulars without mentioning consideration, does the law include the presumption of a purchase or consideration exchange, if the escort has a concurrent ad? This fucking sucks. We're not criminals or children. This could end sessions with new gals if not regulars that have a public profile or operate from a hotel and merely suspected of working, no?

 

[GPIDEAL]

Is the law retroactive ?

How would they prosecute? How many 'advertise' evidence of previous sessions?

 

[lovelatinas]

A consideration is well defined in Criminal law.

"Some right, interest, profit or benefit accruing to the one party of a contract"

In the case of money or fixing her car, those are considerations.

Well that's stupid. So I am breaking the law because I fixed her car she decided to have sex with me and I agreed to the exchange?