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Hamas and Fatah declare unity government

fuji

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Look the link you posted is from 1948..please keep your facts straight. The UN resolution you linked me to was calling on Israel at the time to stop displacing arabs by destroying their homes and relocating them to Gaza. A period where you said Israel assured Arabs peace and security. This is pretty much proving what you have said in the past is RUBBISH and LIES. And at the time Israel was already heavily engaged in ethnic cleansing.

http://www.un.org/en/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/RES/34/52&Lang=E&Area=RESOLUTION
The link was from the 1979 and referenced Israel relocating people within Gaza. Israel did not even control Gaza until 68. So, ten years after the six day war and thirty years after the civil war.

You can go back and read the news from the day. Israel began resettling Palestinians in refugee camps to proper homes in Gaza. The PLO objected, the Arab League petitioned the UN, and that resolution was enacted. Israel then ended the program.

The PLO also murdered Palestinians who moved into the homes to discourage them. The cynical Palestinian position has always been to ensure maximal Palestinian suffering so as to pressure Israel.

The result is that today the PLO still has all those people caged up in camps inside Gaza, Lebanon, and Syria. Let me repeat that: TODAY, in 2014, there are Palestinian refugee camps in Gaza and the West Bank whose residents are denied status by the Palestinian Authority.

Only in Jordan, where the government evicted the PLO, do the descendants of refugees have normalized status. Everywhere the PLO/PA holds sway they are living under Palestinian/Arab imposed apartheid.
 

groggy

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The result is that today the PLO still has all those people caged up in camps inside Gaza, Lebanon, and Syria. Let me repeat that: TODAY, in 2014, there are Palestinian refugee camps in Gaza and the West Bank whose residents are denied status by the Palestinian Authority.
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And which side has created 5 million refugees that have to live in refugee camps because of ethnic cleansing?
Israel.

As Sharon has been reported to have said:
During his visit two weeks ago to Israel, former Italian prime minister Massimo D'Alema hosted a small group of Israelis - public figures and former diplomats - to a dinner at a Jerusalem hotel.

The conversation quickly turned to the conciliatory interviews Prime Minister Ariel Sharon gave to the press for their Independence Day editions. One of the Israelis, of the type for whom it's second nature, no matter who is in government, to explain and defend Israeli policy, expressed full confidence in Sharon's peace rhetoric. He said the prime minister understands the solution to the conflict is the establishment of a Palestinian state beside Israel.

The former premier from the Italian left said that three or four years ago he had a long conversation with Sharon, who was in Rome for a brief visit. According to D'Alema, Sharon explained at length that the Bantustan model was the most appropriate solution to the conflict.

The defender of Israel quickly protested. "Surely that was your personal interpretation of what Sharon said."

D'Alema didn't give in. "No, sir, that is not interpretation. That is a precise quotation of your prime minister."
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/features/people-and-politics-sharon-s-bantustans-are-far-from-copenhagen-s-hope-1.10275
 

onthebottom

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All this energy over 5m Jews and a poor stateless people who tend to resort to terrorism….

We should focus this much attention on the Kurds - they are actually worthy of it.

OTB
 

danmand

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All this energy over 5m Jews and a poor stateless people who tend to resort to terrorism….

We should focus this much attention on the Kurds - they are actually worthy of it.

OTB
There are 8.3M jews in the US.
 

fuji

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And which side has created 5 million refugees that have to live in refugee camps because of ethnic cleansing?
You absolutely cannot even discuss the PLO and Arab treatment of the refugees can you? You are squirming and flailing trying to avoid the topic.

The PLO and Arab countries are denying status to Palestinians and forcing them to live in camps. It is outright Arab implemented Apartheid by Arab and PLO forces.

As for your question, Israel did not ethnically cleanse them, the Arabs stated a civil war against Jews and then refused to live in areas they lost.
 

groggy

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The PLO and Arab countries are denying status to Palestinians and forcing them to live in camps.
And why should they?
The UN has ruled that they should be allowed to return to Israel and their homes.
Its Israel that is causing this problem, the PLO, Arab countries and the UN are just left taking care of millions of refugees until Israel takes responsibilities for its actions.


All Israel wants to is stick them in Bantustans.
Sharon explained at length that the Bantustan model was the most appropriate solution to the conflict.
 

onthebottom

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There are 8.3M jews in the US.
I checked Wiki, looks like it's 6M in Israel, 5.5m or 8m (what the hell is "enlarged") which is really irrelevant from a size stand point (1.7% or 2%), but they do have disproportionate political influence on US policy if that was your point.
 

fuji

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And why should they?
Because denying people status in the country of their birth, preventing them from accessing the same educational and health facilities as everyone else, preventing them from seeking employment, and persisting with this for generation after generation, is wrong. This is Arab implemented apartheid. Formal, official, PLO instigated apartheid.

The fact that you can't see how wrong it is, shows how pathetic and hateful you are.

You don't give a FUCK about Palestinians. You would prefer that millions of them suffer for generations so that you can further your hate of Israel. To you they are worthless pawns, subhuman, to be used as tools in your pathetic incitement of hate against Israel.

These are people who have no reasonable prospect of ever migrating to Israel, who have no plausible claim to citizenship, who have never set foot in Israel and never will. They are not people who used to live in Israel, they are people who were born in Syria, Lebanon, the West Bank, and Gaza. I exclude Jordan from that list because Jordan actually normalized them and gave them status, in Jordan they continue to be registered with UNWRA so that they will receive just compensation in any eventual settlement.

Forcing these people to live in these PLO run apartheid camps because of some preposterous, far fetched claim that they can "return" to a place they have never lived, that is not their country now, and never was their country, is just evil.

This is a discussion of the 4,970,000 of them who were born in Syria, Jordan, Gaza, West Bank, and Lebanon. The 30,000 or so who were born in Israel should of course have a right to return once a peace deal is signed.
 

groggy

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These are people who have no reasonable prospect of ever migrating to Israel
Oh, once the one state solution comes to pass and a proper democracy comes to pass Israel will have to end its racist immigration rules and accept them.
I'd say, according to Kerry's comments, that we'll know pretty soon if Israel will go into full on pariah state apartheid or become a just state with equal rights for all.
As Abbas' son says:
As Tareq Abbas, son of the Palestinian president, told me: "The Israelis haven't adhered to Oslo, which was supposed to be a road to an independent state; they didn't give us a state and they didn't even give us the road to it, while always undermining... the Palestinian Authority. I used to support the two-state solution and if it happens, I will accept it, but I believe they will not give us a state so the best solution for us is to ask for our human and social rights and be citizens in one democratic country."
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/04/palestine-israel-peace-talks-wh-201442484153382938.html

You are pushing the solution of the old folks there, the youth from both sides know that Sharon/Netanyahu's moves have been a disaster.
 

fuji

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Still unable to discuss what the PLO is doing to Palestinians, PLO imposed apartheid, you are desperate to avoid this topic. You don't give a shit about Palestinians unless you can use them as an excuse to hate Israel.
 

basketcase

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All this energy over 5m Jews and a poor stateless people who tend to resort to terrorism….

We should focus this much attention on the Kurds - they are actually worthy of it.

OTB
As if the Kurds don't resort to terrorism.
 

basketcase

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Oh, once the one state solution comes to pass....
The Palestinians and Israelis are overwhelmingly opposed to a one state solution. You've preached democracy to criticize the US and Canada. Why do you suddenly refuse to accept the democratic rights of the Israelis and Palestinians?
 

groggy

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Still unable to discuss what the PLO is doing to Palestinians, PLO imposed apartheid, you are desperate to avoid this topic. You don't give a shit about Palestinians unless you can use them as an excuse to hate Israel.
Answered in post #66, troll.

Still unable to discuss your support of apartheid, war crimes and ethnic cleansing?
 

onthebottom

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fuji

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Answered in post #66, troll.

Still unable to discuss your support of apartheid, war crimes and ethnic cleansing?
Yeah you outright supported PLO apartheid in post #66, here is the pathetic thing you said:

"And why should they?
The UN has ruled that they should be allowed to return to Israel and their homes.
Its Israel that is causing this problem, the PLO, Arab countries and the UN are just left taking care of millions of refugees until Israel takes responsibilities for its actions."

THE REASON WHY THEY SHOUDLN'T IS THAT THE PLO IS IMPLEMENTING APARTHEID.

There are only 30,000 people that the UN has said should return to Israel once a peace deal is signed, there's millions in those camps that do not have that right and need to be settled -- yet they are being held in PLO enforced apartheid conditions.
 

groggy

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Yeah you outright supported PLO apartheid in post #66, here is the pathetic thing you said:

"And why should they?
The UN has ruled that they should be allowed to return to Israel and their homes.
Its Israel that is causing this problem, the PLO, Arab countries and the UN are just left taking care of millions of refugees until Israel takes responsibilities for its actions."

THE REASON WHY THEY SHOUDLN'T IS THAT THE PLO IS IMPLEMENTING APARTHEID.
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Are you so desperate in your lack of arguments that you are only left with accusing they other side of that which you are guilty of?
For it to be Apartheid you'd have to show that its based on race.
So how the fuck can Palestinians impose a racist political system on other Palestinians?
That's just the most ridiculously asinine thing you've come up with here.

You are turning into such a shrill sad sack that you have to make such stupid arguments.

Here, tell us how those camps compare to these points:
1. South Africa created Bantustans as a way of denaturalizing Blacks, ensuring that they could not vote for the national government and were assigned citizenship only in their weak Bantustan.

Gaza and the West Bank function as Bantustans, as South African Blacks have no trouble recognizing. Indeed, a former Italian prime minister maintains that former Israeli PM Ariel Sharon told him he thought the Bantustan system was the best way of dealing with the Palestinians. The Palestinians living in these occupied territories have no citizenship in any real state. They are stateless. The West Bank has been segmented into 8 units. Palestinians cannot travel between them without going through numerous checkpoints. They cannot vote for the Israeli government, but they are ultimately controlled by the Israeli military. When in 2006 they were allowed to hold elections for a toothless “parliament,” and they cheekily elected a party the Israelis find unacceptable, the election results were overturned by Israel.

2. South Africa instituted a “pass” system to control the movement of Blacks.

Israel instituted a “permit” system to control the movement of Palestinians. West Bank Palestinians cannot live outside the 8 designated areas without a permit. Desmond Tutu, who knows a bit about Apartheid South Africa, remarked of seeing, on his visit to the Occupied West Bank, “the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers prevented us from moving about”.

3. In Apartheid South Africa, 80% of the land was set aside for white settlers.
Israel itself was ethnically cleansed of 750,000 Palestinians in 1948, and was designated “Jewish,” such that the expelled Palestinians (now millions strong) were denied the right to return to their homes. Some 70% of the residents of the Gaza Strip are from southern Israel, and cannot return to their nearby homes in cities such as Sderot, where Israelis have settled Ethiopians and Thai guest workers. In the Palestinian West Bank, some 600,000 Israeli squatters have usurped significant amounts of land from Palestinians, for which they paid nothing to the original owners, and their squatter settlements are off-limits to Palestinians, who cannot live in them.

4. In Apartheid South Africa, Blacks from the Bantustans could not attend universities designated for whites.

In the Occupied Palestinian West Bank, the Israeli military governor has recognized a squatter university, Ariel, built on usurped Palestinian land. Although Palestinian-Israelis can attend, stateless West Bank Palestinians cannot get on campus because they are barred from settlements by the Apartheid pass system, as Dahlia Scheindlin wrote at 972mag:
“Member of Knesset Zahava Galon, head of the Meretz party, scoffed at that. Ariel, she told me by phone, is off limits for Palestinians very simply because it is an Israeli-controlled settlement. Just as a West Bank Palestinian can’t go to Jerusalem or Tel Aviv easily, they are equally unwelcome in Ariel. For her, the move reeked of hypocrisy. “It’s a higher education committee approved by people in uniform, so what is the substantive meaning? It’s unbelievable.” She called it a sign of the government’s true program of “creeping annexation,” and remarked that it would legitimize the global movements calling for the academic boycott of Israel.”

5. South African Apartheid forbade marriages between people of different ethnicities.

Israelis of Jewish and Palestinian heritage cannot intermarry in Israel. Two Israeli citizens of different ethnic heritage can marry abroad and return to Israel. But Israeli-Palestinians who marry Palestinians from the Occupied West Bank are not allowed to bring their spouse to Israel. The same problem is not faced by Israeli Jews who marry squatters on the Palestinian West Bank.
From Juan Cole.
 

fuji

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Are you so desperate in your lack of arguments that you are only left with accusing they other side of that which you are guilty of?
For it to be Apartheid you'd have to show that its based on race.
It is based on race in Syria and Lebanon.

Whatever label you want to slap on it, are you not outraged by it? Multiple generations of people denied status, refused access to services, prevented from applying for jobs, all in the country of their birth and for what? I say if this issue does not thoroughly outrage you, that your don't actually care about the welfare of Palestinians.

I note that AGAIN, as in every one of your posts, you are squirming hard to change the topic away from discussion of the PLO to Israel.

It really shows how fundamentally hypocritical you are. Combined with your pathological lying, it does show you in a very bad light.
 

basketcase

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...
For it to be Apartheid you'd have to show that its based on race.....
That has never stopped you from erroneously applying it to Israel.

...
Here, tell us how those camps compare to these points:...
And in the same post you call Israel apartheid despite not having anything to do with race.

No Israelis have been forced into 'bantustans' no matter their race.
No Israeli is denied movement in Israel regardless of race (though if they travel in the West Bank people like you justify their murder based on race).
Israeli land is available for sale to any Israeli and many foreigners and Israelis of all races live all around the country.
No Israeli university denies entry to Israelis because of race.
Israel recognizes any marriage regardless of race.

Both you and Juan Cole are full of shit.
 
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