Hamas and Fatah declare unity government

[basketcase]

Seems Hamas statements contradict Abbas.

GAZA CITY: A senior Hamas official welcomed as "positive" a speech Saturday by Mahmud Abbas, but sidestepped the Palestinian president's pledge that a new Palestinian unity government would recognise Israel and reject violence.
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Mi...s-official-salutes-positive-abbas-speech.ashx

 

[groggy]

Israel doesn't keep them penned up, Groggy.

Israel mans the walls, both the illegal walls through the West Bank and the war crimes walls around Gaza, and shoots civilians and children who get too close to it.
How can you possibly say they don't keep them penned up.

 

[fuji]

Israel mans the walls, both the illegal walls through the West Bank and the war crimes walls around Gaza, and shoots civilians and children who get too close to it.
How can you possibly say they don't keep them penned up.

No, liar, Israel does not man the walls of the camps. The PLO does. Israel does not even have a military presence in Syria, Lebanon, or Gaza. In the West Bank, where Israel does have a military presence, the camps themselves are policed by the Palestinians, not Israel.

The PLO prevents Palestinians living in refugee camps in Lebanon, Syria, and the Palestinian Authority from moving out of the camps and settling. When Israel tried to provide homes for Palestinians in the Gaza camps, the PLO objected.

 

[groggy]

No, liar, Israel does not man the walls of the camps. .

They man the walls around Gaza and the West Bank and shoot civilians.
Just the way you like it.

 

[fuji]

They man the walls around Gaza and the West Bank and shoot civilians.
Just the way you like it.

Whereas we are not talking about that at all. We are talking about how the PLO prevent Palestinians from leaving the refugee camps in Lebanon, Syria, Gaza, and the West Bank.

A topic that makes you squirm. You constantly try and avoid discussing it.

 

[groggy]

A topic that makes you squirm. You constantly try and avoid discussing it.

No, I quite often refer to Israel's refusal to abide to international law and UN resolutions and allow Palestinians their legal right of return as one of the major issues holding back peace.
There are millions of Palestinians living in refugee camps because Israel is a pariah state that won't respect international law.

 

[fuji]

More evasion. Why can't you discuss the PLO preventing Palestinian refugees from leaving the camps to settle amongst the local population?

You keep trying to change the topic to Israel. DOES DISCUSSING THIS ACTION BY THE PLO TERRIFY YOU THAT MUCH?

 

[basketcase]

Israel mans the walls, both the illegal walls through the West Bank and the war crimes walls around Gaza, and shoots civilians and children who get too close to it.
How can you possibly say they don't keep them penned up.

Borderish walls aren't keeping people in the camps. The PA keeps people in the camps. Do any of the camps even touch the barrier?

 

[basketcase]

...
There are millions of Palestinians living in refugee camps because Israel is a pariah state that won't respect international law.

Most countries abide by the UN Convention on Refugees and allows refugees the opportunity to integrate into the host country. Lebanon doesn't do this. Jordan doesn't do this, at least for the poor - the wealthy have no issues. Syria doesn't do this.

Even worse, the Palestinian Authority refuses to allow Palestinians refugees to live alongside the rest of the Palestinians in West Bank or Gaza. The refugees are a political pawn and the PLO refuse to do anything about it because they worry the people would be content in their country of birth and not want to move to Israel. I wonder if Palestinians who take Canadian citizenship get shit on by their kin for abandoning the cause.

 

[nottyboi]

Here they are protesting and burning images of Abbas for the mere suggestion that he might give up on returning to his home town:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/nov/04/mahmoud-abbas-palestinian-territories

Imagine what they would do if he signed a deal saying that. And he is one of the 30000 or so who actually lived in Israel and would have a right under a peace deal, unlike the other 5,000,000 who claim to be refugees but have never lived in Israel and have no plausible right of return.

Here is the resolution where the UN, after prodding from the PLO, ordered Israel to stop providing homes for Palestinian refugees (scroll to the last page, very end):

http://www.un.org/en/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/RES/34/52&Lang=E&Area=RESOLUTION

Of course all you have to do is reflect on why there are refugees camps in Gaza and the West Bank AT ALL, when that is Palestinian controlled territory. It ain't Israel keeping them from leaving those camps to live like others do.

Wow you have quite a funny way with words - "Calls on Israel to desist from the removal and resettlement of Palestinian Refugees in the Gaza strip away from homes and properties they were displaced constitute a violation of their inalienable right to return"

So SOMEHOW this call on Israel to stop it's ethic cleansing, you try and claim is insistence that they stop ASSISTING the Palis? Come on man. Please, are you trying to be the new Goebbels?

BTW this is evidence of stuff you have been claiming NEVER HAPPENED which shows quite clearly how full of shit you are.

 

[jcpro]

What difference does it make? Israel is not going anywhere and Arabs will fight Jews to the last Palestinian. Might as well ignore it.

 

[nottyboi]

What difference does it make? Israel is not going anywhere and Arabs will fight Jews to the last Palestinian. Might as well ignore it.

That is true, it will resolve itself in the fullness of time with rivers of blood the way these things have always resolved.

 

[jcpro]

That is true, it will resolve itself in the fullness of time with rivers of blood the way these things have always resolved.

Not in our lifetime. The side effect of the Arab Spring is that all Israel's enemies are too weak to even contemplate open confrontation. We're looking at decades of low level terror and reprisals. Status quo, in short.

 

[nottyboi]

Not in our lifetime. The side effect of the Arab Spring is that all Israel's enemies are too weak to even contemplate open confrontation. We're looking at decades of low level terror and reprisals. Status quo, in short.

unlikely it will be in our lifetimes, perhaps it will take generations.

 

[fuji]

Wow you have quite a funny way with words - "Calls on Israel to desist from the removal and resettlement of Palestinian Refugees in the Gaza strip away from homes and properties they were displaced constitute a violation of their inalienable right to return"

So SOMEHOW this call on Israel to stop it's ethic cleansing, you try and claim is insistence that they stop ASSISTING the Palis? Come on man. Please, are you trying to be the new Goebbels?

BTW this is evidence of stuff you have been claiming NEVER HAPPENED which shows quite clearly how full of shit you are.

Except that it was a response to an Israeli program to build homes for people in the camps in Gaza, so no, not ethnic cleansing.

Again, why are there even camps in Gaza? Why has the PA created two classes of Palestinians? Shouldn't they all be able to apply for any job, move about within Palestine as they please? Buy any home in the PA and live there?

The hypocrisy is incredible.

Same story in Lebanon and in Syria, people born in Lebanon to parents svd grandparents who were born in Lebanon are denied status, prevented from obtaining normal status, refused access to the same schools and services.

Only Jordan has accorded Palestinians theoretical equality. I say theoretical because there is a great deal of discrimination but at least it isn't the formal apartheid prescribed by the PLO and practiced by Lebanon, Syria, and the PA.

 

[fuji]

unlikely it will be in our lifetimes, perhaps it will take generations.

Likely. The current situation is sustainable indefinitely from the Israeli perspective, and the current generation of Palestinian politicians show no interest in real nation building. All their decisions are framed in terms of fighting.

I think it will take new Palestinian leaders who don't understand everything in terms of "resistance" to make good practical choices.

Abbas, etc., are still intent on reversing their losses to Israel in the wars of years gone past. Some of them are still trying to reverse the outcome of the 47 civil war. They let slip one opportunity after another because they aren't interested in moving forward, they are stuck in 47 or 67.

 

[nottyboi]

Except that it was a response to an Israeli program to build homes for people in the camps in Gaza, so no, not ethnic cleansing.

Again, why are there even camps in Gaza? Why has the PA created two classes of Palestinians? Shouldn't they all be able to apply for any job, move about within Palestine as they please? Buy any home in the PA and live there?

The hypocrisy is incredible.

Same story in Lebanon and in Syria, people born in Lebanon to parents svd grandparents who were born in Lebanon are denied status, prevented from obtaining normal status, refused access to the same schools and services.

Only Jordan has accorded Palestinians theoretical equality. I say theoretical because there is a great deal of discrimination but at least it isn't the formal apartheid prescribed by the PLO and practiced by Lebanon, Syria, and the PA.

No, they were building homes in Gaza for people THEY displaced, by destroying their homes. It was ethnic cleansing, and there you are spreading lies that the Israelis were assuring Arabs that they would be untouched. Why were they not offering to build homes in the places they were from instead of the Gaza ghetto. You are such a complete liar. The UN wanted them to stop the process of ethnic cleaning, the building of homes was just to put a more friendly face on it. as they moved the Palis into ghettos where they now live.

 

[fuji]

No, they were building homes in Gaza for people THEY displaced, by destroying their homes.

Untrue. Most of them have never set foot in Israel. Of the five million or so people registered with UNRWA, only about 30,000 ever lived in Israeli territory.

There is no plausible expectation nor legal grounds for the other 4,970,000 to gain Israeli citizenship. Sooner or later they have to be settled.

It was ethnic cleansing

Bullshit.

Why were they not offering to build homes in the places they were from instead of the Gaza ghetto.

They are almost all from Gaza.

It is the PLO who prevent those people from obtaining status where they were born, not Israel

 

[groggy]

Time to take stock.

The peace talks are dead and the US has washed their hands of the matter

Obama brings curtain down on Mideast peace process
With the departure of the American babysitter, both the Israelis and Palestinians will have to deal with the bleak reality on their own.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.587498

And Kerry warns of apartheid:

Kerry: Israel risks becoming apartheid state

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/04/kerry-israel-risks-becoming-apartheid-state-2014427234834614855.html

Next?
Israel is going to the ICC to try to jump Abbas to court, opening themselves up for even more cases in return.
http://www.albawaba.com/news/israel-palestine-566718

Abbas has been waiting, since the US has a lovely law where they have to stop funding every UN agency that admits Palestine and they are still hoping for cash from the US themselves.
Israel is threatening to withhold more Palestinian money as well, which could help Abbas to 'hand over the keys'.

Interesting times.

 

[nottyboi]

Untrue. Most of them have never set foot in Israel. Of the five million or so people registered with UNRWA, only about 30,000 ever lived in Israeli territory.

There is no plausible expectation nor legal grounds for the other 4,970,000 to gain Israeli citizenship. Sooner or later they have to be settled.



Bullshit.



They are almost all from Gaza.

It is the PLO who prevent those people from obtaining status where they were born, not Israel

Look the link you posted is from 1948..please keep your facts straight. The UN resolution you linked me to was calling on Israel at the time to stop displacing arabs by destroying their homes and relocating them to Gaza. A period where you said Israel assured Arabs peace and security. This is pretty much proving what you have said in the past is RUBBISH and LIES. And at the time Israel was already heavily engaged in ethnic cleansing.

http://www.un.org/en/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/RES/34/52&Lang=E&Area=RESOLUTION