Video Surveillance - Maybe I am Naive?

[Hotchilly]

It recently came to my attention that some (at least one to be specific) spas in town have video and audio surveillance of their lobbies and that the comings and goings of patrons is recorded. This is a fact and it has been confirmed to me by the owner of one of the better-known spas in town.

I certainly understand the need for MPs and management to be safe and to feel safe and of course I agree with that. I also understand the need of patrons to feel comfortable in their anonymity and video surveillance takes that away. Perhaps I am just naive but I was not aware that this was going on at any Ottawa spas.

This is a big issue for me and despite being a frequent (and good) client of this spa, I will not be returning to it. In the future, I will be asking about surveillance before going to any spa.

So my question is, is this just me or do others feel as I do on this subject?

 

[jjw99]

when I see a sp or a ma safety is on top of my list
if they have video of the lobbies and outside I am find with that

if they have one in the room i am in I like a copy of it lol

 

[SaturnFan]

I'm no expert on surveillance systems, but I believe most newer ones will only record onto a hard drive for 'X' amount of hours and then will start overwriting older data. I don't imagine spas keep days or weeks of information, maybe at most a day's (24 hours) worth?

Perhaps someone with more expertise can confirm or correct me on this?

 

[LikeRedHeads]

Can you tell Terbites which spa is this so that people take enlightened decisions about visiting them. Thnx.

 

[jjw99]

I think all spa have video surveillance just like all the stores and business

 

[LikeRedHeads]

I think all spa have video surveillance just like all the stores and business

So someone who doesn't want to be filmed should boycott all spas and use indy MAs instead, then.

 

[jjw99]

not sure if they do or not
if I had a spa I have one for the safety of the girls
remember they only have to look at it if they is a problem
I don't think you be on the 6:00 news have you see this guy going to the spa
go and have fun
camera are ever way you look today

 

[Gntlmn]

not sure if they do or not
if I had a spa I have one for the safety of the girls
remember they only have to look at it if they is a problem
I don't think you be on the 6:00 news have you see this guy going to the spa
go and have fun
camera are ever way you look today

I agree. It's for the ladies' protection, not spying on us. Could it be? Sure, but I don't want to live with that kinda outlook -- when wouldn't you think that way, then? They're coming for me ahhhhhhh

 

[Zedx2000]

I don't mind really.

I've been to several MA establishments, but all I ever got was a massage (and, I didn't inhale lol )

/z

 

[too2shy]

Montreal was in a spa where there was a obvious camera in a light fixture thing the girl kept nervously looking at.
Same unit I've seen on camera sites.

Very not cool.

 

[radius]

I believe it is so girls don't try to short the owner

 

[LikeRedHeads]

I believe it is so girls don't try to short the owner

I heard this for the Chinese places.

 

[CMJ]

If I may chip in, I believe all of the reputable places, lobby's of apartment buildings and security for the buildings where these places reside, have security cameras in common areas. It just makes sense.

Dealing in cash and personal affects (jewelry, clothes, etc) leaves you open to robberies, which happens quite often in this industry across the country.
Being able to see who is behind the door before you open it - not knowing could result in undesirables being able to have access to ones business.
Theft/loss prevention between co-workers, or dishonest practices from staff/corporate theft
Professional conduct
General security.

If something happens, its very important to be able to be a personal witness to what transpired then playing the guessing game.

We live in a big brother society, there are CCTV cameras all over, watching you, monitoring you ensuring your compliance with our social norms and values.

I think to assume any nefarious doings by reputable adult establishments because they ensure the security of both its staff and clients, is in my opinion, unfair. Your general concern about being "outted" due to an arrest on the evening news because you were caught on camera entering into the building, then you should question why that establishment would be in trouble with the law and under investigation in the first place. Do your research and stick with places that operate above board legally and run clean places...

I am not aware, nor have I heard rumours to the affect that any business has cameras in the rooms, bathrooms or any other area where they would be an expectation of complete privacy.


If you are generally concerned, may I suggest wearing a hat or hoodie as you walk in the door to ensure your continued discretion This is way to much fun to let such a fixable and workable situation stop you from visiting your special spot!

Hope this helped and happy hobbying!

 

[dynomyte]

Reallly???? The solution is to wear a disguise??? Come on now. The right to privacy is being infringed upon and the answer is to wear a hoodie? Really? All of a sudden a very reputable place like CMJ goes to very questionable with this solution imho. You had me for a bit but all of a sudden the answer is wear a hat or hoodie?? Like someone that would truly compromise the safety of people in the building would not be wearing a hat or hoodie? Thanks for the advice, but that is obviously not in the best interest of the people who visit your establishment. Something has changed at CMJ where the best advice they give is to wear a hat or hoodie.

 

[Hotchilly]

Since putting up the original post last week, I have had a good bit of private communication about this topic. With the exception of one spa that contacted me, EVERY one of the other contacts has been expressing disappointment that there is video surveillance at Ottawa spas.

As I see it, of course security is a concern for the owners and of course owners need to take steps to protect their establishment and employees. The problem is, video surveillance, from the perspective of the hobbyist, means that the hobbyist is taking a risk that he might be outed. Given the problems that this would cause to many hobbyists if they were to be outed, it is perfectly reasonable for them to not want to take the risk. So these two objectives (safety for the spa and privacy for the hobbyist) seem to hit each other on the head and that is a big problem.

What is the solution? Wearing a hat or hoodie certainly is not a good solution for a whole bunch of reasons, including, if a customer were to show up with a hat or hoodie in the hot months of July or August and keep his head tilted downwards to avoid the camera, would that not in itself cause the receptionist to be suspicious and thus attract added attention? Really, this is not practical nor a good way to treat a customer. And yes CMJ, we may indeed live in a society where video surveillance is ubiquitous, with most people, when going about their business becoming accustomed to being videotaped and not really minding it unless they have something to hide. But by definition, most hobbyists DO have something to hide. And without hiding their hobby, most hobbyists would not be partaking. So to many customers including me, video is a no-no.

Also CMJ, you have to (or at least should) realize that even if the establishment taking the video is reputable, the video can get into the hands of LE or disreputable people through unintended means. It happens sometimes. So the good reputation of a particular spa provides little comfort that the video will remain totally private.

Is there not a middle ground that meets the needs of both the spa and the hobbyist? For example, why not post a sign in the lobby, prominently placed, advising all clients that they are being video taped in the public portions of the establishment? At least then, the customer is informed and gets to decide if he wants to stay or leave.

Is it not disingenuous on the part of the spa owners to hide the fact that they are taking the video? The bottom line is, spa owners who take the video are not playing straight with their clients. They are putting their clients at potential risk, and not advising them of that fact. This is not how I would treat my customers.

 

[atticusfinch]

This concern is why I am always reluctant to use agencies that use the same incall location, like a condo. It could be used against you by the agency, or the police could be looking at you if the place is ever busted.

 

[CMJ]

Since putting up the original post last week, I have had a good bit of private communication about this topic. With the exception of one spa that contacted me, EVERY one of the other contacts has been expressing disappointment that there is video surveillance at Ottawa spas.

As I see it, of course security is a concern for the owners and of course owners need to take steps to protect their establishment and employees. The problem is, video surveillance, from the perspective of the hobbyist, means that the hobbyist is taking a risk that he might be outed. Given the problems that this would cause to many hobbyists if they were to be outed, it is perfectly reasonable for them to not want to take the risk. So these two objectives (safety for the spa and privacy for the hobbyist) seem to hit each other on the head and that is a big problem.

What is the solution? Wearing a hat or hoodie certainly is not a good solution for a whole bunch of reasons, including, if a customer were to show up with a hat or hoodie in the hot months of July or August and keep his head tilted downwards to avoid the camera, would that not in itself cause the receptionist to be suspicious and thus attract added attention? Really, this is not practical nor a good way to treat a customer. And yes CMJ, we may indeed live in a society where video surveillance is ubiquitous, with most people, when going about their business becoming accustomed to being videotaped and not really minding it unless they have something to hide. But by definition, most hobbyists DO have something to hide. And without hiding their hobby, most hobbyists would not be partaking. So to many customers including me, video is a no-no.

Also CMJ, you have to (or at least should) realize that even if the establishment taking the video is reputable, the video can get into the hands of LE or disreputable people through unintended means. It happens sometimes. So the good reputation of a particular spa provides little comfort that the video will remain totally private.

Is there not a middle ground that meets the needs of both the spa and the hobbyist? For example, why not post a sign in the lobby, prominently placed, advising all clients that they are being video taped in the public portions of the establishment? At least then, the customer is informed and gets to decide if he wants to stay or leave.

Is it not disingenuous on the part of the spa owners to hide the fact that they are taking the video? The bottom line is, spa owners who take the video are not playing straight with their clients. They are putting their clients at potential risk, and not advising them of that fact. This is not how I would treat my customers.

I agree being sneaky about is and even recording audio is not acceptable in my mind. There is a sign at our front door that says you are being recorded - any reputable alarm/security company will place stickers to warn people as they install. I am not ashamed to admit that we take measures to protect our staff, members and security. I feel sorry for those who don't.

I also respect your decision, trust is a necessary aspect of any great business relationship an if you dont trust the place you have been going to, regardless of who they are, then you shouldn't go.

Most security systems are encrypted and have password protectors on them to reduce the risk of anything questionable from happening.

There are so many what if's - you could leave the place and run into your wife in the parking lot because she was eating at a restaurant near by. Your co-worker or your kids could use your computer or cell phone and see your communications with your MA or history. Your neighbour could drive by you as you are getting back in your car. The MA you are seeing could take a glimpse or picture of your ID as you are in the shower and use it to blackmail you, you could be laying on a massage table when the places gets busted because they are an unlicensed or underground massage parlour and the police would know who you are anyways, a jealous boyfriend of an MA/SP could be waiting for you as you left - there are so many factors, you cant say that your privacy could be violated because there are cameras in a lobby and common areas of a business.

My suggestion of wearing a hat or hoodie, not a balaclava or a disguise. while walking past a camera is actually a GREAT suggestion and I am sorry that some have taken it so poorly. Lots of people wear hats in the summer... lol they are called baseball hats. If you have a relationship with the MA and owner of the establishment you say you frequent quiet often, you could voice your concern and your choice and reasoning to do so wouldn't be weird at all. Its called accommodation. We have members who wish to come and go by using the back door.... we accommodate their request. My point is, there are ways around things by communicating and compromise.

 

[vitto]

The main reason for using cameras at an MP is SAFETY... for everyone that comes in.. being staff members and clients... I have one question for those that think that video surveillance has a " deceiving purpose" What is the business of the Spa.. to offer a service and have clients come back... Not to use it against the clients... like seriously... if a spa uses this video for other purposes they would be out of business... so lets just put a bit of logic into this... As a working MA out of a Spa... I much rather know that somehow if anything was to happen while I was there.. the owners can do something to help me... Cameras are not tgere to incriminate you on anything... they are there for your protection... at Spas we don't have big bouncers or any kind of "security" like the girls at a strip club have... there is no conspiracy and as a matter of fact we would be stupid to try to use any of this video for any other reason... Black mailing? Seriously? Now we are talking a serious Crime... so please guys stop making action movies on your head... This is not Hollywood. .. spa owners and MAs are honest people trying to make a decent living.. we are in the adult business NOT into the gangster and organized crime business!

 

[mmmgood]

Cameras are in every decent parlour, strip club and incall SP agencies across Canada. You should see Brampton. They even have 4x4 sneak and peek windows in the doors to the rooms. If this stuff bothers you, find a new hobby but don't attack or try to undermined the businesses. This brings a whole new level to paranoia.

 

[CMJ]

I add my voice that I think cameras would be for safety only and would fall into the hands of LE only if there is a crime committed within the spa so yes they are there for MPs' protection and clients too. Though it may be easy for me to say as I never do incalls but they are certainly at strip bars too. There are all over the building that I live too. Not to take pictures of my visiting weekend dancers but rather for residents' safety.

I am no lawyer but I think that LE would not be interested in cameras because the current laws say that to be "found" in a bawdy house is illegal (means at the time of the raid to be there if ever occurs) not to mention that reputable spas are not bawdy houses. That said if the laws change for worse, I could see the concerns for cameras. Meanwhile if you are that paranoid like as much as I was/am myself (when hobbying between 2008 to 2014) why not becoming outcall only? Not sure but I think CMJ has still an outcall wing (though they are not responding to my request emails recently so not sure if they still have TOE active).

TOE is still active - not sure why your emails arent coming through, maybe they are ending in my junkmail rather then going to my phone. Please just call.