I do recall we should have some more beef with Cliff Fletcher ... He hired Wilson , He traded away a bunch of draft pics to get the abilty to draft Schenn , and traded Steen and Carlo Colaiacovo to the St. Louis Blues in exchange for Lee Stempniak .. In his brief time as interim GM he should have just left things alone ..
Thank you Brian Burke
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So getting Doug Gilmour and putting together the best Leaf team in the last 40+ years (within one bad call to the Cup final) did not do enough for you to forgive the few bad moves he had made ? Just name me a GM in the history of NHL that had never made a few bad moves ?
When Cliff Fletcher was hired to be interim GM he wasn't in hockey full time for years ... ( For 6 years he was away from everyday hockey operations ) ..
I'm sure we had had similar discussions before and you always hold a grudge against Fletcher. Cliff was hired as the interim GM at the time they were trying to get Burke who was still under contract with Anaheim. It was an open secret that he was going to be the Leaf GM during that short period. I submit to you that all the key decisions made by Cliff during that short period were with the blessing of Burke, especially the hiring of Ron Wilson. Cliff was just a puppet on a string, so to speak.
Just as there is no guarantee that acquiring a 1st rounder automatically ensures a great pick, saving money in one place does not guarantee that it will get spent wisely elsewhere (e.g. Clarkson).
At this point I look at Phil as a bird in the hand. He is a proven commodity that is locked up. He is more of a certainty than a draft pick or a few extra bucks to spend on a free agent. Those are not risk free acquisitions.
Never held a grudge and in fact was excited when I heard the news he was coming back ie he was face of great Toronto Maple Leaf memories ..
The positive to the trade is at least we got a young asset in return .. Unlike previous Leaf trades in their history which 1st round pics given away turned out to become Niedermayer or Lunigo
Well,Well,Well it seems that i have struck a nerve with some people who don't like the leafs . First thing, everyone has a opinion about the leafs like them or hate them that's fine, HOWEVER, it's the people that show arrogance , make it personal in there dislike for people that love the leafs to the bitter end. Now, I'm not speaking for every leaf fan, I'm speaking for myself, yes there are some really stupid trades leafs have made in the past i.e Courtnall for Kordic .....Tuukka Rask for Raycroft those are a few that come to mind. That being said, Burke has done some great things for the leafs....but that doesn't matter because if you hate a team your going to find SOMETHING wrong with everything the team trays to do to get better. Burke landed some big names in his first year as GM. It practically made us forget that he was inheriting arguably the worst NHL team in the league. Burke’s imprint on this Leafs team goes beyond toughness. The players he believed in and went after throughout his tenure as GM now not only lead the team in scoring, but are among the league leaders in points this year. Burke’s trades for forwards Phil Kessel, Joffrey Lupul, and James van Riemsdyk have absolutely panned out. Though Lupul missed the majority of the season because of an injury, all three of these Burke acquisitions are making huge impacts on the scoreboard. In fact, Kessel is currently one of the top ten point producers in the league. The Leafs are even getting it done from the point. Cody Franson (acquired by Burke from Nashville in 2011) and Dion Phaneuf (from Calgary in 2010) are tied for fifth in the league for points by a defenceman, with 27 each. And there’s no way we can leave Nazem Kadri out of this discussion. Burke selected Kadri 7th overall in the 2009 entry draft. Kadri was nowhere near ready for NHL action in his first few rookie years. Now, with nearly a point per game to his credit and one of the best plus-minus ratings on the team, there should be no doubt in anyone’s mind that he’s ready for prime time. As a quick aside, only because people keep comparing Kessel and Tyler Seguin (who the Leafs could have had if Burke hadn’t traded first-round draft picks for Kessel in 2009): Four of Burke’s additions to the Leafs—Kessel, Kadri, van Riemsdyk, and Lupul—are putting up more points per game than Seguin this season. Remember when every Toronto media outlet was talking about how the Leafs desperately needed an elite goaltender and should go after Roberto Luongo? Thank god that didn’t happen, right? James Reimer and Ben Scrivens, both Burke-era additions, has resulted in some
solid goaltending numbers (Scrivens for the Oilers).
So I think it's about time that some credit be given to Burke for giving us what we have now....a chance for some great hockey now and in the future.
I'm just saying.
solid goaltending numbers (Scrivens for the Oilers).
So I think it's about time that some credit be given to Burke for giving us what we have now....a chance for some great hockey now and in the future.
I'm just saying.
No question Burke made some good trades in his time with the Leafs.
The deals for Phaneuf, Lupul (including Gardiner), and JVR were great.
Drafting Kadri and signing undrafted Bozak and Scrivens too. Morgan Rielly sure looks like a keeper.
But that's about it............
It's impossible at this point to declare a winner in the Kessel trade. I think both sides are happy.
It is however my opinion the upside on Seguin (or the proceeds for Boston) and Hamilton is higher given health and the Bruins got rid of a player they didn't want who wanted a salary they didn't want to pay.
Seguin looks like he's going to be a very good player for a long time. His development undoubtedly aided by playing for Claude Julien and with Patrice Bergeron in Boston, and with Jamie Benn for Lindy Ruff now. I don't think he would be the player he is, or will be, had the Leafs chosen him.
BTW, Seguin is a point a game player this season. Kadri, Lupul and JVR are not.
5th best record (especially according to your proposed playoff format---you can't have it both ways).
Sounds like a lot of "shoulda, woulda, coulda and what ifs and maybes". So far, according to stats that are already on the board, Kessel has clearly been a better/more impactful player.
Your "what ifs" may still come true, but at this point they are speculation.
Shack, take off the blue shades for gawds sake. No "shoulda, woulda, coulda and what ifs and maybes". Right now, today, Tyler Seguin is a far better PLAYER than Phil Kessel.
He competes every shift, plays in his own zone, and scores at a PPG clip on a team that struggles to score.
Kessel is an elite scorer who can't find his own zone with a map and disappears for long periods during most games. Elite scorers are rare, that is his value and shouldn't be dismissed.
Seguin is also 4 years younger, with a much bigger upside.
Dougie Hamilton, who you seem to discount, plays 19 minutes a game in all situations for the best defensive team in the league.
Kessel was not traded for Seguin alone.
How much bigger?Seguin is also 4 years younger, with a much bigger upside.
Kessel is a premier player in the best hockey league on the planet.
Kessel is a premier SCORER in the best hockey league on the planet.
Seguin is a premium PLAYER and SCORER.
I think a lot of people would trade Kessel straight up for Seguin. People like Nonis and Burke for starters...........
You are right though, I'm saying Kessel is what he is, and that's damned good. 30 - 40 goal scorers are hard to find. 30 - 40 goal complete players are much harder.
My post was completely balanced. I acknowledged that your what ifs may come true. You should acknowledge that they may not.Shack, take off the blue shades for gawds sake. No "shoulda, woulda, coulda and what ifs and maybes". Right now, today, Tyler Seguin is a far better PLAYER than Phil Kessel.
He competes every shift, plays in his own zone, and scores at a PPG clip on a team that struggles to score.
Kessel is an elite scorer who can't find his own zone with a map and disappears for long periods during most games. Elite scorers are rare, that is his value and shouldn't be dismissed.
Seguin is also 4 years younger, with a much bigger upside.
Dougie Hamilton, who you seem to discount, plays 19 minutes a game in all situations for the best defensive team in the league.
Kessel was not traded for Seguin alone.
As long as you keep mentioning "potential" and "upside", by definition you are speculating. You cannot get around that.
The blood in your eyes from the daggers are clouding your view of the real world. Potential and upside have not happened. We can discuss it once they have (or have not).
Fair enough, the what ifs may not come to fruition. There are certainly no limits to the potential pitfalls.
That said, IMHO Seguin is a better player TODAY.
Dougie Hamilton is a bonus.
I have no daggers, I'm a Bruins fan!
Incorrect. 9th place according to my playoff vision. Top 16 teams in the league would get in and the Leafs are 9th in points.
