Supreme Court of Canada will release its decision on the Bedford, Lebovitch and Scott

[Morning Glory]

A Canadian has to sponsor. Here is a case. A guy marries a foreign girl, she gets her papers. She then leaves him, marries another guy, has children. That ends and she goes on welfare.

Guess who got the knock on the door to pay the bill? the sponsor
True story

Without prejudice.. In the overall picture something is not working here (or is it?) whether the wife kids are of immigrant families or other means of getting here, women shelters and government funded housing in central Ontario are almost at capacity with such. ( Russian, Romania , etc). You may not believe this,but most are very attractive women with kids,and whether by justified means or not this is happening because it can in CANADA. I do believe in human rights and safety of women n children, yet someone is paying and it sure looks like it not the husbands or sponsors, its the taxpayer. Not to confuse the issue just some true facts.

 

[GameBoy27]

TORONTO - Councillor Giorgio Mammoliti thinks strip clubs could have the “solution” to looming changes to Canada’s prostitution laws.

Mammoliti missed the end of Monday’s council meeting on the ice storm to attend a meeting of strip club operators in Niagara Falls.

At the Adult Entertainment Association of Canada meeting, Mammoliti said the owners unanimously agreed to try to enter into discussions with the federal government to become legal brothels in the wake of the Supreme Court ruling that Canada’s bans on brothels, communicating for the purpose of prostitution and living off its profits are unconstitutional.

“My role obviously is to try to work with the City of Toronto in finding the right formula that will work in Toronto,” Mammoliti told the Toronto Sun on Monday. “We have to find a way to do this.

Mammoliti said the owners agreed to do a study to help make their case and to come out swinging at massage parlours.

The York West (Ward 7) councillor has floated the idea of a Red Light District on Toronto Island in the past as one possible option for dealing with prostitution in the city.

But Mammoliti said that the strip club solution might work better and help rid the city of massage parlours.

“If the government is prepared to sit and talk to the Adult Entertainment Association ... we may have found a solution,” he said.

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/01/13/strip-clubs-the-way-to-go-mammoliti

 

[freedom3]

A Canadian has to sponsor. Here is a case. A guy marries a foreign girl, she gets her papers. She then leaves him, marries another guy, has children. That ends and she goes on welfare.

Guess who got the knock on the door to pay the bill? the sponsor
True story

Would you rather the taxpayer pay? Personally, I am glad he got the knock on the door.

 

[MPAsquared]

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/01/13/strip-clubs-the-way-to-go-mammoliti

And there is the motivation..."come out swinging at the massage parlors". that's it. That's all. SC's becoming brothels is a horrible decision for the customers & women in this industry. Its time someone hear the WOMEN WHO WORK!

 

[GameBoy27]

And there is the motivation..."come out swinging at the massage parlors". that's it. That's all. SC's becoming brothels is a horrible decision for the customers & women in this industry. Its time someone hear the WOMEN WHO WORK!

Yeah, kinda makes you wonder about him when he comes up with ideas like that.

 

[TeasePlease]

Yeah, kinda makes you wonder about him when he comes up with ideas like that.

You give him too much credit.

This is a prime example of business (profit maximization) vs. worker welfare.

Any union leaders on Terb listening????

 

[susi]

my name is susi and i am from vancouver. i do alot of work for the rights of clients and sp's here...i just had a horrible conversation with mammolitti's assistant....

i wonder if anyone out there is interested in representing the community there in meetings with the city of toronto....? it seems to me that the city are seriously considering this idea and believe that the show lounge guys actually represent workers....

we have successfully worked with the municipal government and police here in vancouver and i would love to have a conversation with people out there about how to engage and be heard by policy makers in the crucial time...

anybody on terb feel up to dealing with this before it gets out of control?

 

[GPIDEAL]

I understand their argument to be that the rights of the minority of women who wants to be sex workers could and should be trumped if prostitution causes the society enough problems on a larger scale.

It's not an unreasonable argument per se if they could demonstrate these problems.

IF is a big word. I believe it's more their perceived fear that it weakens the 'majority' of women's control or power over men.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Breaking news terbites! breaking news




Feds must introduce legislation to 'address the effects of prostitution': MacKay

The federal government is “going to have to produce legislation” to “address the effects of prostitution” after the Supreme Court declared three key prostitution laws unconstitutional, Justice Minister Peter MacKay says.
In a decision handed down just before Christmas, the court found that the laws that prohibit keeping a brothel, living on the avails of prostitution and communicating in public for purposes of prostitution are overly broad and infringe on prostitutes' Charter rights by depriving them of security of the person.
Chief Justice Beverly McLachlin, writing on behalf of the court, said the three provisions in question make it difficult for prostitutes to take safety precautions in their work, such as hiring a bodyguard or other staff, or working in groups.


The court’s decision was set aside for one year so Parliament can decide how to respond: either change the current laws or set the issue aside.
MacKay’s comments suggest the federal government will proactively respond to the court’s decision because, as he told CTV’s Power Play on Tuesday, prostitution “is a very corrosive part of what’s happening in society, and the Supreme Court’s decision in the Bedford case will require legislation to fill the gap.”
“We’re going to have to produce legislation that will protect vulnerable women, that will address the concerns raised by the Supreme Court but will put in place laws that are designed very much to address the effects of prostitution, the exploitation that goes on and the vulnerability that many in society have as a result of johns and in fact pimps that prey on vulnerable women,” MacKay said.
MacKay did not give a timeline for when the government might unveil the legislation.
Hours after the Supreme Court decision came down, sex worker and activist Terri-Jean Bedford said the federal government must consider three factors as it mulls amendments to Canada’s prostitution laws.
"First of all, they have to take consenting adults into consideration. What we can and cannot do in the privacy of our home with another consenting adult for money or not," Bedford told CTV’s Question Period last month.
"Then they have to outline what a sex act is. And then draft laws that are fair and right, and that don't put people in harm's way, maim or kill them."
'Against the law' for judges to reduce victim fine surcharge

MacKay also spoke out against judges who are resisting the federal government’s mandatory victim fine surcharge, which goes to a fund to support victims of crime with counselling, lost wages or other expenses related to their “participation in the justice system.”

Ontario Court Justice Colin Westman has been an outspoken critic of the surcharge, and is among a group of judges that have used their discretion to either reduce the fine in some circumstances or allow for an extended repayment period.

The law requires that judges impose a 30 per cent surcharge on a fine, or a flat fee of between $100 and $200, upon conviction.
Westman told CTV Kitchener last month that although he believes victims need assistance, judges should not have to impose the fine on impoverished or mentally ill criminals.
“It’s unrealistic,” Westman told CTV last month. “So if it’s not unrealistic, aren’t you bringing disrespect on this court by imposing things that either aren’t going to be enforced or can’t be enforced?”

MacKay told Power Play that some estimates put the annual cost of crime at $100 billion, 80 per cent of which he said is borne by victims.
“It’s our intention to put victims at the centre of our justice system, where they should be,” MacKay said. “Respect for them, inclusion and greater participation, and a louder and more clarion voice, and that means compensation in some cases and restitution, which a victim fine surcharge is all about.”
MacKay said several provinces and territories offer offenders options, such as completing community service, in order to pay their debt. But he accused judges of failing to inquire about an offender’s ability to pay the fine before reducing it.

“They can give prolonged periods of time to make that restitution, to make that payment of $100 to $200, depending on the offence,” MacKay said. “But to flout the law, to give 50 years to pay off a $100 fine, or to make the nominal amount of $1 as compensation to victims, is quite frankly insulting and it is against the law to do so.”


Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/feds...f-prostitution-mackay-1.1627878#ixzz2plNBx1QJ

Breaking news is right, but it's also been a fear raised in this thread before (enjoy for a year while it lasts).

I saw an innocuous article in the Sun last week about McKay stating that we can't have Canada turn into another Bangkok, so that new legislation would have to be introduced. WTF!

Which john or civil libertarian will fight the government down the road?

 

[MPAsquared]

AGREED!!

How, in practical terms, would this even work? All SC's have to install showers and private rooms now? Or offer services in public? All providers must work in a strip club? It simply makes no sense in practical terms. I just don't even get it.

Exactly. And the facilities &health/cleanliness issue is only 1 reason it makes no sense!! But he knows how to work the media to buy into his bull. It makes no sense at all! The rest of the industry needs to get just as vocal. No one hears any other side!

 

[MattRoxx]

Mammoliti should be forced to resign from council now that he is a lobbyist for the strip club owners association.

Question they have not been asked but should: Will you give up your liquor license for a brothel license?

Turning strip clubs into brothels or adding a brothel section is a terrible idea, and will in effect compel or force dancers to either quit, not get hired - or become prostitutes. This business model is great for the AECA because it exploits both the women and clients, but it doesn't benefit current SPs and hobbyists.

Also, many men who go to massage parlours want that specific activity, not a quick assembly-line fuck. Brothels are not a replacement for MPs and won't put them out of business.

 

[TeasePlease]

Mammoliti should be forced to resign from council now that he is a lobbyist for the strip club owners association.

Question they have not been asked but should: Will you give up your liquor license for a brothel license?

Turning strip clubs into brothels or adding a brothel section is a terrible idea, and will in effect compel or force dancers to either quit, not get hired - or become prostitutes. This business model is great for the AECA because it exploits both the women and clients, but it doesn't benefit current SPs and hobbyists.

Also, many men who go to massage parlours want that specific activity, not a quick assembly-line fuck. Brothels are not a replacement for MPs and won't put them out of business.

Logistically, SCs to brothels makes no sense (but we're forgetting the SCs that operate "rooms for rent" on premises" (i.e., upstairs/ VIP).

But, the argument you and others have made about compelling Dancers to perform sex acts applies equally to MPs/MPAs. Why is it so egregious to "force" dancers to become prostitutes, but not so much for MPAs? We have heard from time to time right here on TERB that MPAs don't want to be escorts for various valid reasons.

I agree that MPs cater to a specific need and that a market exists for its limited services. BUT, I simply don't agree that brothels cannot replace MPs.

I don't see any reason why a brothel can't offer a massage and hand release session, a jacuzzi session, etc. It's simply a matter of training the girls and pricing the service. Massage is easily a lesser but included service of a brothel. (kind of like how we have Jiffy Lube, vs. a full service garage. The garage can do oil changes just as well.)

I don't see how (legally or logistically) a licensed brothel could be prohibited from giving hand jobs.

My bet is that legalized brothels will bring downward pricing pressure on MPs and SCs....if those MPs and SCs choose to remain simply MPs and SCs.

 

[james1961]

Isn't mexico full of SC/Brothels?

 

[oldjones]

Mammoliti should be forced to resign from council now that he is a lobbyist for the strip club owners association.

Question they have not been asked but should: Will you give up your liquor license for a brothel license?

Turning strip clubs into brothels or adding a brothel section is a terrible idea, and will in effect compel or force dancers to either quit, not get hired - or become prostitutes. This business model is great for the AECA because it exploits both the women and clients, but it doesn't benefit current SPs and hobbyists.

Also, many men who go to massage parlours want that specific activity, not a quick assembly-line fuck. Brothels are not a replacement for MPs and won't put them out of business.

The single-minded pursuit of profit is often a race to the bottom that only the profiteers really want, but that doesn't mean the rest of us can call it off. Ask the smalltown folks who chose to drive out to the new Walmart, if they meant their downtown to wither and close. Or their neighbourhood moviehouse to go dark when they picked pay-per-view over going out.

The current regime has meant incalls, MPs and SCs each had their own legally-defined niche (though the incall niche is an outlaw one). As you point out, the SC owners would likely have to choose between selling beers or boinks, and might well stick with the status quo. But just as likely would try for an adjoining business, like the Fan's Sybarites, or the Devil's Playground/MP across the street. The MPs really only exist because they can shelter behind the law when they refuse to go the last mile, and they're likely to be squeezed out if the incalls are allowed aboveground, and SC owners get ambitious.

Some can survive without offering the full package I am sure, just as some manage today offering legit-massage-only. But those operators are not getting rich. I'd bet on a business-model that added the whole-meal-deal to the menu, along with all the lighter snacks we now enjoy, as the one that would keep the average ones in the business they've chosen. Like the few surviving small theatres, those who choose to offer only the lighter fare would have to content themselves with the mantra, "We may not be big, but we're small".

 

[james1961]

Could you not see brothels opening up at the casinos?
It doesn't necessarily have to be established as an enhancement to the current scheme. You may also consider some parties with excess cash reserves wanting to be an entrant. Curve balls a plenty.
This is assuming that the feds allow this activity.

 

[TeasePlease]

Could you not see brothels opening up at the casinos?
It doesn't necessarily have to be established as an enhancement to the current scheme. You may also consider some parties with excess cash reserves wanting to be an entrant. Curve balls a plenty.
This is assuming that the feds allow this activity.

Not at casinos, but there's certainly an undeniable synergy. I suppose this is why MP owners were so supportive of the casino debate last year.

 

[canada-man]

First pot, now prostitution: Liberal party to debate legalization

First it was pot; now it's prostitution.

Liberals broke new ground at their last national policy convention, becoming the first federal party to advocate legalizing, regulating and taxing marijuana.

And now some Grits want the party to take the same approach to the world's oldest profession.

British Columbia Liberals are proposing a resolution for the party's next national convention aimed at ensuring sex trade workers are legally able to run a "safe and successful business," which would be licensed to safeguard employees, employers and clients and taxed just like "any other commercial enterprise

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fir...iberal-party-to-debate-legalization-1.2497342

 

[GPIDEAL]

AGREED!!

How, in practical terms, would this even work? All SC's have to install showers and private rooms now? Or offer services in public? All providers must work in a strip club? It simply makes no sense in practical terms. I just don't even get it.

Exactly. And the facilities &health/cleanliness issue is only 1 reason it makes no sense!! But he knows how to work the media to buy into his bull. It makes no sense at all! The rest of the industry needs to get just as vocal. No one hears any other side!

Not that I agree with SC owners who want the brothel option, I believe it's motivated out of their fear that they will lose business if incalls are allowed en masse. Their business is already shrinking or giving way to MPs.

 

[carter80]

AGREED!!

How, in practical terms, would this even work? All SC's have to install showers and private rooms now? Or offer services in public? All providers must work in a strip club? It simply makes no sense in practical terms. I just don't even get it.

I for one think it would work quite easily, as would anyone who's been to Colombia, Panama or Argentina. The clubs there have stages, and girls dancing and drinks being served. They all have a separate back area with rooms with showers to take a girl back to. The girls are in an controlled environment with plenty of security to keep them safe. It's perfectly logical.

I'm actually disappointed that the "South American" model where prostitution is legal and pimping is criminal. In addition to the strip clubs, plenty of massage places and outcall/incall services available as well.

 

[userz]

First it was pot; now it's prostitution.

Liberals broke new ground at their last national policy convention, becoming the first federal party to advocate legalizing, regulating and taxing marijuana.

And now some Grits want the party to take the same approach to the world's oldest profession.

British Columbia Liberals are proposing a resolution for the party's next national convention aimed at ensuring sex trade workers are legally able to run a "safe and successful business," which would be licensed to safeguard employees, employers and clients and taxed just like "any other commercial enterprise

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fir...iberal-party-to-debate-legalization-1.2497342

if you're opposed to the evangelicals and born-again bible college dropouts imposing their puritanical worldview on you you know what to do in 2015.