Rob Ford Defends Robocalls

[Jennifer_]

Why does it alway seem so many of the Mayor's opponents need to C and P their thoughts from the Star.

I'd really like to see a origional opinion from them sometimes. Not regurgitated rhetoric from editorial columnists. I actually read the Star almost nightly. Can see this stuff as most can.

Try not to be lemmings people.

lol - only one of my posts was a Star Editorial.

all of the major papers have posted similar articles (these are simply two fresh ones from today).

Warmington from the Sun had an interesting one today calling out Ford and Mamo for hypocricy but that's on a different topic....

I get my news from more than one source ... (and I watch every council debate )

 

[Butler1000]

With all due respect Jennifer James is one of the continuing leading critics of the Mayor in various "articles" since he came to office. I definitely rank everything he writes at this point on city politics as edittorial.

As for the Grid I read it weekly(as well as Now) and have found it to be best described as the "hipster alt" magazine. Not quite as contriveersial but definitely downtown centric. Its articles, like now, always have a slant. And read like it.

Which is fine. They are entitled to their opinion. To express and if they can afford to get it out to the masses. Free speeech and all that.

Just like the Mayor did. You just don't like the medium. Or the message. That is your right as a voter. To take the information given and judge.

Just like I do......

 

[fuji]

Meanwhile Ainslie has pointed out that the Ford robocall contained lies and misleading statements.

But ignore that fact. Go back to complaining that someone posted whole article, rather then dealing with the substantive issue raised.

We all know there is no substantive way to defend Ford anyway.

 

[Butler1000]

Meanwhile Ainslie has pointed out that the Ford robocall contained lies and misleading statements.

But ignore that fact. Go back to complaining that someone posted whole article, rather then dealing with the substantive issue raised.

We all know there is no substantive way to defend Ford anyway.

The councillor pointed out his opinion on the matter. If the Mayor lied then he can sue no? Just like the Mayor and the Star. Will he sue? That's his right.

 

[Butler1000]

Oh and as I stated before I consider them to be editorial in tone and nature. I wouldn't qualify them as an unbiased "article".

 

[groggy]

With all due respect Jennifer......

Attacking the messenger doesn't cut it anymore.
First off, its not just James, or the Star or even the Grid. Its CBC, the Post, the Sun, the Globe and even Taiwan news.
Its not a conspiracy by all the papers, all the radio and all the TV stations.
Now confirmed by the Press Council report.

You just don't like the media.

Second, using that argument to avoid the hard questions (and the Grid article has very detailed and specific issues with what Ford passes off as 'subways subways subways'.
The man can't even tell the difference between an LRT and a streetcar.

 

[Jennifer_]

With all due respect Jennifer James is one of the continuing leading critics of the Mayor in various "articles" since he came to office. I definitely rank everything he writes at this point on city politics as edittorial.

As for the Grid I read it weekly(as well as Now) and have found it to be best described as the "hipster alt" magazine. Not quite as contriveersial but definitely downtown centric. Its articles, like now, always have a slant. And read like it.

Which is fine. They are entitled to their opinion. To express and if they can afford to get it out to the masses. Free speeech and all that.

Just like the Mayor did. You just don't like the medium. Or the message. That is your right as a voter. To take the information given and judge.

Just like I do......

James was also a very vocal critic of Miller and James is very pro-transit.

The downtown-centric comment simply proves one of the key points in The Grid piece: many have taken this as a "war" where it should simply be what is best for the city.

I posted the Grid article because I feel it's releveant to this discussion and the pro Scarborough subway posters simply prove Keenan's point.

The sad thing is... those "subways subways subways" that Ford says downtown has too many of are more useful for the suburbanites than for the so-called "downtown elitists", (especially the DRL) See - when you live downtown, you don't need to take crowded trasnsit up to the burbs....

We walk.

I'm able to form my own opinions - I bet I pay closer attention to council than most. I saw Robbie and Douggie go after Ainslie live in council last week.

There's no point of trying to come up with something witty and informative to state my opinions when the same people will continue to use the same Ford nation stances despite logical arguments that prove otherwise.

So I c and p'ed

 

[fuji]

The councillor pointed out his opinion on the matter. If the Mayor lied then he can sue no? Just like the Mayor and the Star. Will he sue? That's his right.

I think he made his case pretty clear. He supports subways. He doesn't support tax increases and risky, improperly funded projects.

Ford lied.

 

[Butler1000]

Attacking the messenger doesn't cut it anymore.
First off, its not just James, or the Star or even the Grid. Its CBC, the Post, the Sun, the Globe and even Taiwan news.
Its not a conspiracy by all the papers, all the radio and all the TV stations.
Now confirmed by the Press Council report.

You just don't like the media.

Second, using that argument to avoid the hard questions (and the Grid article has very detailed and specific issues with what Ford passes off as 'subways subways subways'.
The man can't even tell the difference between an LRT and a streetcar.

On a certain level you are correct that I'm findoing the media to be more polarizing in recent years. But I do read all four newspapers on a regular basis. As well as a few others (NY Times etc. We get a lot of them at work and I have a lot of standby time).
I will also admit to my own personal biases on some topics. My opinion is just that. What I find now though is more opinions are being published and broadcast and passed off as fact. On BOTH sides of the political spectrum. So I have to read many sources, find the common facts to both and somewhere in the middle find the truth.
And its getting tougher to do this every day. With so much saturation and content the providers of news are scrambling for content and more importantly to SELL it to the public. We can discuss journalistic integrety all we want but it is still for profit. I never forget that. Headlines sell and blaring ones more so.

There are pertinent facts in the article. Ones which I will incorporate into my critical thinking on this. But I will also check the same facts from other sources to see if the way they are used is correct.

The crux here is this. Are robocalls a form of media? Any different from a billboard on the street, an e-mail blast or other intrusive forms of messaging. Right now they are in my opinion. No different than a political flyer in the mailbox. If the CRTC wants to ban them I'm all for it. I got rid of my home line because I was sick of telemarketers. Until they do though its legit.

If you don't like the medium lobby to ban it.

If you don't like the message incorporate it into your opinion for the next vote.

And if the person who the message is about feels it is a lie he/she can sue. Just like with any other media.

So will he sue? And if he doesn't then just like the Mayor's opponents mantra why not? Is their truth to the allegations? Works both ways. Deal with it.

 

[slowandeasy]

The councillor pointed out his opinion on the matter. If the Mayor lied then he can sue no? Just like the Mayor and the Star. Will he sue? That's his right.

Touche!!!!

 

[fuji]

Touche!!!!

In fact, he really has begun legal proceedings, such as his formal complaint to the integrity commissioner, unlike Ford. En garde.

 

[red]

In fact, he really has begun legal proceedings, such as his formal complaint to the integrity commissioner, unlike Ford. En garde.

ah, but not a lawsuit. I guess the truth is a defense

 

[fuji]

ah, but not a lawsuit. I guess the truth is a defense

Unfortunately Ford did not tell the truth.

 

[Butler1000]

James was also a very vocal critic of Miller and James is very pro-transit.

The downtown-centric comment simply proves one of the key points in The Grid piece: many have taken this as a "war" where it should simply be what is best for the city.

I posted the Grid article because I feel it's releveant to this discussion and the pro Scarborough subway posters simply prove Keenan's point.

The sad thing is... those "subways subways subways" that Ford says downtown has too many of are more useful for the suburbanites than for the so-called "downtown elitists", (especially the DRL) See - when you live downtown, you don't need to take crowded trasnsit up to the burbs....

We walk.

I'm able to form my own opinions - I bet I pay closer attention to council than most. I saw Robbie and Douggie go after Ainslie live in council last week.

There's no point of trying to come up with something witty and informative to state my opinions when the same people will continue to use the same Ford nation stances despite logical arguments that prove otherwise.

So I c and p'ed

I've lived in just about every part of the city. Taken transit every day for work and play. For over 37 years. Including the core. Both living and working.

And you know what. It is a bit of a war. Unfortunately. Quite simply(my opinion here) the council was run for several years by the core wards. They led the charge after amalgamation on most of the projects. And got the funding for them. Due to the concentration of wards they had a bit of a "block" (with an NDP base) and stuck together.
Well now the outer wards, are finally realizing that the only way they too will get funding and approval for projects is to stick together and out vote the core wards.

So they are doing it. The suburban wards are only playing the same game that the core wards did for the previous ten years. Only they out number them.

Sorry to say but some of the core councillors could give a rats ass about the outer wards. They only care about there own little fiefdom. And now the suburban wards are playing the same game.

If the core wards would compromise maybe some of the other councillors would come to the table as well.

Too many time I've also heard the people who live in the suburban wards derided and dismissed. Well they are only now playing the same game. Your right. It is one big city now. Too bad some of the core reps haven't realized that yet.

 

[groggy]

Oh and as I stated before I consider them to be editorial in tone and nature. I wouldn't qualify them as an unbiased "article".

But can find any fault with what they say?

 

[Butler1000]

But can find any fault with what they say?

At this point I can't say one way or the other until I've read other points of view. I also prefer to sit in things for a day or so and think about them.

 

[Butler1000]

But can find any fault with what they say?

I will say this. In the first no real fault with the facts. I just have a different opinion of what they mean. And please note James encourages the use of Robocalls as well. Does this mean he considers them legitimate?

As to the second on first glance it offers no balance. Surely there are even some benefits to a subway. Even hard detractors must see that. The writer offers none. That in and of inself makes it more editorial than article. He was out to prove his point(and I see lionize or demonize councillors as needed) and not supply balanced information. Did some of what he said make sense. Of course. I can see both sides. I just have a preference. So does the writer. And that is still OPINION.

 

[fuji]

I've lived in just about every part of the city. Taken transit every day for work and play. For over 37 years. Including the core. Both living and working.

And you know what. It is a bit of a war. Unfortunately. Quite simply(my opinion here) the council was run for several years by the core wards. They led the charge after amalgamation on most of the projects. And got the funding for them. Due to the concentration of wards they had a bit of a "block" (with an NDP base) and stuck together.
Well now the outer wards, are finally realizing that the only way they too will get funding and approval for projects is to stick together and out vote the core wards.

So they are doing it. The suburban wards are only playing the same game that the core wards did for the previous ten years. Only they out number them.

Sorry to say but some of the core councillors could give a rats ass about the outer wards. They only care about there own little fiefdom. And now the suburban wards are playing the same game.

If the core wards would compromise maybe some of the other councillors would come to the table as well.

Too many time I've also heard the people who live in the suburban wards derided and dismissed. Well they are only now playing the same game. Your right. It is one big city now. Too bad some of the core reps haven't realized that yet.

Bullshit. Any transit proposal in the last twenty years, from Transit city, to the current Shepard line, the extension of the University line, and including all proposals discussed here, have been designed for suburban voters.

People already in the core don't need a train to get where they are already.

The downtown relief line advocated by anyone with a clue is meant to reduce crowding on subways that take suburban, not core, voters to work. It is the people watching full trains go by at Sheppard who will benefit.

It really is about what is best for the greatest number of suburban voters under every one of these proposals. This isn't a core vs suburban issue.

 

[Butler1000]

Except have the plans actually been for what is best? It is there that opinions differ. I don't think that LRTs are the best option.

If they are, then why not set up dedicated lines on Queen and King too? They did it on St clair. Why not plans to do this too? The streetcars bring a lot of suburbanites too(like me and my S0). I would love it! But would the people downtown?

I consider to be the lesser solution to a long term problem. So do others. We shall see in the next election how the democratic majority feel.

 

[explorerzip]

Except have the plans actually been for what is best? It is there that opinions differ. I don't think that LRTs are the best option.

If they are, then why not set up dedicated lines on Queen and King too? They did it on St clair. Why not plans to do this too? The streetcars bring a lot of suburbanites too(like me and my S0). I would love it! But would the people downtown?

I consider to be the lesser solution to a long term problem. So do others. We shall see in the next election how the democratic majority feel.

Only way to put dedicated lanes on Queen or King would be to get rid of parking on those streets. The shopkeepers will never let that happen.