Good catch Dan! lol But there's a difference between a typo and a misspelling. However, I admit it was a little petty of me...in fairness if he hadn't CAPPED it and the post wasn't about education, I wouldn't have given it a thought. As a parent, citizen, and former educator, it's a sensitive subject.
Teachers Taking "Sick Days" - Anyone want to defend this one?
- Thread starter TeasePlease
- Start date
Yup. I've long suspected that JL's education was low (haven't asked because I know he won't admit it anyway). He likely works a menial-skill-required job because he has no choice and blasts teachers through jealousy. If, in fact, teachers had it so good and he was able/qualified to do the job, someone with his level of critical thought should/would be doing it (not well, mind you) and reaping the lifestyle he is currently so opposed to. He says he doesn't want to a part of a union, but I suspect that he just could not get the job if he wanted to, so he's playing 'sour grapes' (it's okay JL, it looks good on you).Good catch Dan! lol But there's a difference between a typo and a misspelling. However, I admit it was a little petty of me...in fairness if he hadn't CAPPED it and the post wasn't about education, I wouldn't have given it a thought. As a parent, citizen, and former educator, it's a sensitive subject.
Since I know where he'll go from here... (I'll post it when he does)
John,
In a previous rendition of this thread, I posted this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/14/o...ion-of-the-1-percent.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
And you could not understand why I posted something about 14th Century Venice.
I don’t know what the reading level of that story is, but I am sure any OAC student in English Lit would have no trouble understanding it.
You fancy yourself an expert on economics. If you can not read at a grade 12 academic level, there is no way you can do OAC calculus, a pre-requisite for higher math that you need to study and understand economics, which by all accounts is the most cognitively-challenging of the social sciences.
I am trying to be as polite as I can, but you are that average person Murray was referring to. You can not “follow an exposition written beyond a limited level of complexity” and you continue to confuse cause and effect even after the error was pointed out to you. In brief, you are one of those people suffering from the “inability to recognize one's own incompetence”. You are truly lucky to be Canadian and have people like me subsidizing you.
Is this what teachers have to deal with out there?
In a previous rendition of this thread, I posted this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/14/o...ion-of-the-1-percent.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
And you could not understand why I posted something about 14th Century Venice.
I don’t know what the reading level of that story is, but I am sure any OAC student in English Lit would have no trouble understanding it.
You fancy yourself an expert on economics. If you can not read at a grade 12 academic level, there is no way you can do OAC calculus, a pre-requisite for higher math that you need to study and understand economics, which by all accounts is the most cognitively-challenging of the social sciences.
I am trying to be as polite as I can, but you are that average person Murray was referring to. You can not “follow an exposition written beyond a limited level of complexity” and you continue to confuse cause and effect even after the error was pointed out to you. In brief, you are one of those people suffering from the “inability to recognize one's own incompetence”. You are truly lucky to be Canadian and have people like me subsidizing you.
Is this what teachers have to deal with out there?
now why does an advanced degree make u a better teacher when the students r not going to be taught that material?Salaries were based on years teaching and the level of degree held. .
Salaries based on years teaching is seniority bullshit
my worse teachers were the burnt out ones
it also imprisons the workers as you cannot quit and leave your seniority behind
unions have negotiated away equal work equal pay laws
he is frank not rudeAre you this rude to everyone in your life? Rudeness means you have no intellect and no argument. Consider yourself blocked. Suggestion: educate yourself and learn manners.
insulting is a contest with some terbites
now why does an advanced degree make u a better teacher when the students r not going to be taught that material?
Salaries based on years teaching is seniority bullshit
my worse teachers were the burnt out ones
it also imprisons the workers as you cannot quit and leave your seniority behind
unions have negotiated away equal work equal pay laws
Seniority vs. merit is an issue with all unions.
that was meAnd to the poster who tried bring Marxist theory into this... Forget it. You really think JL has ever even seen his work, let alone read it?
i tried to point out history has proven marx correct on everything he said about capitalism and that not everything he said was negative (he predicted great wealth) and that marx himself was not a commie "I am not a Marxist" was what he said
he has also predicted capitalisms great collapse when too few own too much
modern day economists such as nobel winner Stiglitz agree
marx feels this collapse will lead to the nirvana of a workers state (he does not say what the form of this state will be as that is up to the workers)
i have seen only dictatorships and no nirvana so i fear the collapse will lead to another stalin
so to prevent this future chaos and strife we must stop the insanity of a few getting richer and richer simply because they are rich until they own it all while offering nothing to society
this is nuts
Larue disagrees
Perhaps but experience does count. I would guarantee you the good new teacher is significantly better after 10 years of experience, the same way that as an experienced engineer I can do my job far better than I could when fresh out of school....
Salaries based on years teaching is seniority bullshit...
My only problem with the whole union/seniority garbage is the protection they offer to incompetents.
that was me
i tried to point out history has proven marx correct on everything he said about capitalism and that not everything he said was negative (he predicted great wealth) and that marx himself was not a commie "I am not a Marxist" was what he said
he has also predicted capitalisms great collapse when too few own too much
modern day economists such as nobel winner Stiglitz agree
marx feels this collapse will lead to the nirvana of a workers state (he does not say what the form of this state will be as that is up to the workers)
i have seen only dictatorships and no nirvana so i fear the collapse will lead to another stalin
so to prevent this future chaos and strife we must stop the insanity of a few getting richer and richer simply because they are rich until they own it all while offering nothing to society
this is nuts
Larue disagrees
There's more downside to Marxist theory than capitalism which still flourishes. In Western, regulated economies, things won't get extremely out of hand. Russia is in a 'wild west' mode.
Yes, and yes!Perhaps but experience does count. I would guarantee you the good new teacher is significantly better after 10 years of experience, the same way that as an experienced engineer I can do my job far better than I could when fresh out of school.
My only problem with the whole union/seniority garbage is the protection they offer to incompetents.
now why does an advanced degree make u a better teacher when the students r not going to be taught that material?
Salaries based on years teaching is seniority bullshit
my worse teachers were the burnt out ones
it also imprisons the workers as you cannot quit and leave your seniority behind
unions have negotiated away equal work equal pay laws
An advanced degree can make for a better teacher.
My grade 12 chemistry teacher was a chemical engineer (so I heard), and he was not only brilliant but a great motivator who made a complex topic quite interesting.
In every job seniority matters, not just teaching. If you are a journeyman plumber you are paid less and as you spend years learning your craft you are paid more. Seniority is not a teaching thing, it's a life thing, so bashing teachers about seniority is nonsensical - it's everywhere. Of course, it can't be the only thing.now why does an advanced degree make u a better teacher when the students r not going to be taught that material?
Salaries based on years teaching is seniority bullshit
Interesting point about the level of degree, as you are correct that the depth of subject matter in a graduate history course would not be taught to high school students. However:
1) A graduate level course can give the teacher a deeper understanding of the material and, therefore, make him or her more adept at teaching the high school level material.
2) The advanced degree might not be in the subject area taught (i.e. history), but in pedagogy/education (as mine was). Teaching itself is a skill that must be learned and honed.
Some teachers do get burnt out, it's true. And there is some truth to the imprisonment statement I suppose, inasmuch as a by the time a teacher realises he/she is burnt, he/she feels it would be a waste of years to leave.
I see both sides of the issue. I have great respect for teachers because I know firsthand how difficult their job is and they get little appreciation from anyone (parents, kids, administrators, politicians) as evidenced by many comments here. Motivation is difficult to maintain when being kicked by so many. However, I get incensed when teachers go bad or try to tell kids what to think instead of teaching them how to think or don't care or are obstinate in the face of reasoned disagreement.
Unions have done much good for society but like all organisations they often lose sight of their true purpose. I never joined the union. Sometimes I think that teachers fight for pay because they will never get what they really want - respect. So the wheel goes round and round...
Great combination! Knowledge, experience, motivation, skill, and interest. The best. I bet he had a sense of humour as well to round it out.An advanced degree can make for a better teacher.
My grade 12 chemistry teacher was a chemical engineer (so I heard), and he was not only brilliant but a great motivator who made a complex topic quite interesting.
:thumb:
there are two sides to every story as u point outIn every job seniority matters, not just teaching. If you are a journeyman plumber you are paid less and as you spend years learning your craft you are paid more. Seniority is not a teaching thing, it's a life thing, so bashing teachers about seniority is nonsensical - it's everywhere. Of course, it can't be the only thing.
Interesting point about the level of degree, as you are correct that the depth of subject matter in a graduate history course would not be taught to high school students. However:
1) A graduate level course can give the teacher a deeper understanding of the material and, therefore, make him or her more adept at teaching the high school level material.
2) The advanced degree might not be in the subject area taught (i.e. history), but in pedagogy/education (as mine was). Teaching itself is a skill that must be learned and honed.
Some teachers do get burnt out, it's true. And there is some truth to the imprisonment statement I suppose, inasmuch as a by the time a teacher realises he/she is burnt, he/she feels it would be a waste of years to leave.
I see both sides of the issue. I have great respect for teachers because I know firsthand how difficult their job is and they get little appreciation from anyone (parents, kids, administrators, politicians) as evidenced by many comments here. Motivation is difficult to maintain when being kicked by so many. However, I get incensed when teachers go bad or try to tell kids what to think instead of teaching them how to think or don't care or are obstinate in the face of reasoned disagreement.
Unions have done much good for society but like all organisations they often lose sight of their true purpose. I never joined the union. Sometimes I think that teachers fight for pay because they will never get what they really want - respect. So the wheel goes round and round...
both yours and mine have merit
i agree it can be a very hard job but is that not because
1 too many students
2 the melting pot concept of all kids in same class
esp number 2 as u now have disruptive students with kids who want to shut up and learn , gays with homophobics, slow learners with fast etc etc
there is also a compelling desire to be popular and in public school it is not cool to be smart and kids are yappy in order to be popular
i used to have a desire to give a solid right cross to the yappy ones - both male and female - and thought how arrogant and wrong it was for the state to put me in such an environment
WTF !!!
not cool to be smart !!! in a school !!!!
kids who want to learn should be in their own environment FFS!
same with gays FFS!
being forced to hide who u really are is very cruel
question
can a school expel a disruptive student and at what age???
it seems to me the state has accepted the responsibility to teach a child and cannot expel them as now they have no where to go so that child cannot be stopped from fucking up the learning environment
i say full school vouchers for all and the state can stay out of education
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he was there because the money and benefits are good - a point John Larue misses - as better pay does attract better teachersGreat combination! Knowledge, experience, motivation, skill, and interest. The best. I bet he had a sense of humour as well to round it out.
:thumb:
Some excellent points!there are two sides to every story as u point out
both yours and mine have merit
i agree it can be a very hard job but is that not because
1 too many students
2 the melting pot concept of all kids in same class
esp number 2 as u now have disruptive students with kids who want to shut up and learn , gays with homophobics, slow learners with fast etc etc
there is also a compelling desire to be popular and in public school it is not cool to be smart and kids are yappy in order to be popular
i used to have a desire to give a solid right cross to the yappy ones - both male and female - and thought how arrogant and wrong it was for the state to put me in such an environment
WTF !!!
not cool to be smart !!! in a school !!!!
kids who want to learn should be in their own environment FFS!
same with gays FFS!
being forced to hide who u really are is very cruel
question
can a school expel a disruptive student and at what age???
it seems to me the state has foolishly accepted the responsibility to teach a child and cannot expel them as now they have no where to go so that child cannot be stopped from fucking up the learning environment
i say full school vouchers for all and the state can stay out of education
Teaching is difficult for many reasons, some of which you mentioned. You also correctly note how difficult it is for students-very true. It's not so much about homosexuality or brains or height or looks...it's about bullies latching onto anything to take out aggression because they feel inadequate themselves. And some of it is simply adolescence. Heck, adults make fun of one another. There's nothing wrong with ribbing people BUT you have to have a relationship whereby it's known it's in good fun, not meanspirited, and can be taken without offence.
The melting pot and learning-challenged kids are also a quandary. On one hand you want inclusion so they're not outsiders or so they don't get a lower-quality education and on the other hand they could get left behind in mainstream classes.
Expulsion policies can differ. Many larger cities have "alternative schools" for disruptive students. Municipalities are generally required by law to educate children to a certain age/level.
yupSome excellent points!
Teaching is difficult for many reasons, some of which you mentioned. You also correctly note how difficult it is for students-very true. It's not so much about homosexuality or brains or height or looks...it's about bullies latching onto anything to take out aggression because they feel inadequate themselves. And some of it is simply adolescence. Heck, adults make fun of one another. There's nothing wrong with ribbing people BUT you have to have a relationship whereby it's known it's in good fun, not meanspirited, and can be taken without offence.
The melting pot and learning-challenged kids are also a quandary. On one hand you want inclusion so they're not outsiders or so they don't get a lower-quality education and on the other hand they could get left behind in mainstream classes.
Expulsion policies can differ. Many larger cities have "alternative schools" for disruptive students. Municipalities are generally required by law to educate children to a certain age/level.
I feel it is wrong of the state to force kids into an environment that is guaranteed to be abusive for some (gays, the fat and ugly etc)
if not all students for even disrupting a class is abusing those who want to learn and to say it is part of growing up is bullshit IMHO as this does not have to be part of growing up
kids are forced into this environment because the state has taken their educational monies so now they have no where else to go
what is your opinion of vouchers ?
seems to me this would solve everything as you now choose your poison and if you choose wrong that is your fault
gays go to a gay school, the bright to a bright school etc
the state seems to think it has a compelling reason to melting pot everybody
public schools can compete for the vouchers and fill in the void private education leaves (if there is any)
it also seems to me economics is not the compelling reason as I fail to see where public schools are much cheaper than private schools
in a country that so values freedom we have ironically lost freedom to the public education system that espouses freedom virtues while taking freedom away
Vouchers are an option. Having worked for a short time at private schools the danger is that money can be the end game rather than providing a quality education. There's no panacea. A mix of options is good I think.yup
I feel it is wrong of the state to force kids into an environment that is guaranteed to be abusive for some (gays, the fat and ugly etc)
if not all students for even disrupting a class is abusing those who want to learn and to say it is part of growing up is bullshit IMHO as this does not have to be part of growing up
kids are forced into this environment because the state has taken their educational monies so now they have no where else to go
what is your opinion of vouchers ?
seems to me this would solve everything as you now choose your poison and if you choose wrong that is your fault
gays go to a gay school, the bright to a bright school etc
the state seems to think it has a compelling reason to melting pot everybody
public schools can compete for the vouchers and fill in the void private education leaves (if there is any)
it also seems to me economics is not the compelling reason as I fail to see where public schools are much cheaper than private schools
in a country that so values freedom we have ironically lost freedom to the public education system that espouses freedom virtues while taking freedom away
As far as separate schools for the "smart," the "ugly," homosexuals, etc...a thousand times no. We all need to live together and we must associate, learn, live, and work together. Segregation, whether voluntary or not, is bad.
Unfortunately disruptions are not just a part of growing up - they are a part of LIFE. Sadly, we all have to learn how to deal with distractions, disruptions, ***holes, etc. whether at school, the highway, work, and more. Sadly, adults act as badly, and often worse, than kids. That's life my friend. That said, it is important to find ways to limit distractions and disruptions in schools.
