Senior Fatah Officials Call For One State Solution.

[groggy]

You really do need to lie don't you?

Why don't you show us where the Minister of Health confirmed this "policy". I will wait patiently.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/israel-admits-ethiopian-women-were-given-birth-control-shots.premium-1.496519
sigh.

On the meeting with twenty-some-odd nobodys who talked about the Balkan solution. You don't even have to reference the blog, the original article, when it gets around to listing the attendees it is clear there is not a single "official" amongst them.

Fatah's position on the two state solution is very clear. They recognize Israel and want a two state solution:

http://www.americantaskforce.org/da...roved_agreement_recognizing_twostate_solution

Between you and gryph it appears you hate Abbas almost as much as Israel.

Abbas has repeatedly stated that he prefers the two state solution but that window is closing, in which case he'll support the one state solution.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/palestinian-leader-warns-window-closing-for-lasting-two-state-solution/article10839508/

“But now, I believe there is a good opportunity. I’m afraid it will be the last opportunity.”

That falls in line with the US view, giving Israel less then two years to put together a two state solution, according Kerry.
So sure, Abbas prefers the two state solution, but he realizes that that opportunity is almost gone.

 

[fuji]

It started in Ethiopian transit camps and continued in Israel. It was a long term contraceptive, 3 months at a shot with no return to full fertility for up to 18 months, all done without consent.

So what I wrote was correct, it was not started by Israel and it was not sterilization. The over the top claims you and exceed made turn out to be huge exaggerations. You have also been caught lying about it being Israeli policy when the Minister in fact made it clear it was a violation of policy.

Somebody did something inappropriate here clearly but we don't know who and you are exaggerating and misrepresenting it as usual, making up things the article doesn't say, etc.

 

[toguy5252]

Anybody notice how Gryph has slinked away now his initial article has been completely debunked, and no comment from Groggy on just how misleading the approach was?

Shine a light on the rats and they scurry into the darkness.

They will be back, of course, but with a little less credibility that before. If that is possible.

He is scouring Haaretz for an article about someone in Israel who kicked a dog from which he will extrapolate that therefore Israel has no right to exist.

 

[groggy]

So what I wrote was correct, it was not started by Israel and it was not sterilization. .

No, what you said was wrong, it was started by Israel.

 

[fuji]

No, what you said was wrong, it was started by Israel.

How do you know that? It's certainly not in the article.

 

[groggy]

How do you know that? It's certainly not in the article.

Talk to the Minister of Health, who ended the program.
Do you think anyone would reasonably believe that the Ethiopian government would start a program like that with women in transit camps? Then you'd have to acknowledge that the Israeli government worked with the Ethiopian government to institute the program.
What we do know is that Israel's government has confessed.

 

[rld]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/israel-admits-ethiopian-women-were-given-birth-control-shots.premium-1.496519
sigh.

Sighin and lyin'.

No where in that article does it say what you claim:

Which one, the policy of long term contraceptives applied only to Ethiopian Jewish women without there consent, and confirmed by the Minister of Health?

In fact I searched the article, it doesn't even contain the word policy.

So why don't you man up and quote the part of the article that says what you claim, instead of posting a link which doesn't support your dishonest claim.

 

[rld]

Talk to the Minister of Health, who ended the program.
Do you think anyone would reasonably believe that the Ethiopian government would start a program like that with women in transit camps? Then you'd have to acknowledge that the Israeli government worked with the Ethiopian government to institute the program.
What we do know is that Israel's government has confessed.

The only use of the word "program" in the article refers to a TV program.

What "program" is this? Nor is there anything from the government of Israel any rational literate person could call a "confession."

This is turning out to be a great thread.

You and Gryph caught lyin' again.

 

[fuji]

Talk to the Minister of Health, who ended the program.

More blatant lying, the Minister did not "end the program", he said any such thing would be a violation of Israeli policy, meaning it was NEVER policy, and if it was being done, it was being done by some local manager on their own initiative, contrary to the policy of the government.

Do you think anyone would reasonably believe that the Ethiopian government would start a program like that with women in transit camps?

I do believe that they were being persecuted by the Ethiopian government, and that is why they had to be airlifted out to safety by Israel, yes.

That said, what I believe, and what you believe, isn't the issue here -- it's what are the facts. The article doesn't say who instituted the program and you were lying when you tried to say it was Israel. The fact is we don't know who did it, and the article says that we don't know. The article DOES NOT say that Israel did it.

You were caught, yet again, just making something up.

 

[groggy]

The only use of the word "program" in the article refers to a TV program.

What "program" is this? Nor is there anything from the government of Israel any rational literate person could call a "confession."

This is turning out to be a great thread.

You and Gryph caught lyin' again.

I am glad you enjoy this one.
Lets add some more quotes.

Medical staff have pressured women to take the contraceptive at Israeli-linked transit centres inside Ethiopia that prepare them for immigration to Israel, according to a report last month by Israel Educational Television.

Eight years ago, the report said, officials at the centres threatened to deny an unspecified number of applicants entry into Israel if they refused the drug.

At the time of the 2009 study, Ms Eyal described the drug's use as part of an "unspoken policy" in Israel that aimed to reduce "the number of births in a community that is black and mostly poor".

Read more: http://www.thenational.ae/news/worl...ing-birth-control-on-ethiopians#ixzz2U8cnNAlR
Follow us: @TheNationalUAE on Twitter | thenational.ae on Facebook

Sounds like it had been going on for 8 years before they decided to shut down this 'program'.
They call it an 'unspoken policy', but since it was confirmed and shut down by the government we know it was officially sanctioned. Shall refer to it as policy or a program?
Which do you think is more accurate?

 

[fuji]

Groggy, do you understand that you can't just add on your own made up claims on top of what the article actually says? I think you do not understand this--which is why you do not understand why you are so often accused of lying. You seem to think when there is some missing information that you can just fill it in with whatever made up claim you like. You seem not to realize that is lying.

And this is just fucking lying propaganda: "since it was confirmed and shut down by the government we know it was officially sanctioned".

That is the dumbest fucking thing you have ever said. It's like saying that if the police shut down a drug ring, that the drug ring must have been officially sanctioned since it was officially shut down. That is just stupid beyond words -- are you really that incredibly dumb?

 

[groggy]

And this is just fucking lying propaganda: "since it was confirmed and shut down by the government we know it was officially sanctioned".

That is the dumbest fucking thing you have ever said. It's like saying that if the police shut down a drug ring, that the drug ring must have been officially sanctioned since it was officially shut down. That is just stupid beyond words -- are you really that incredibly dumb?

From the Haaretz article, repeatedly linked and quoted (sigh).

Israel admits Ethiopian women were given birth control shots
Health Ministry director general instructs all gynecologists in Israel's four health maintenance organizations not to inject women with long-acting contraceptive Depo-Provera if they do not understand ramifications of treatment.

 

[exceed]

China's position has moved consistently away from that position for about 3 decades now. They have recognized Israel and now call for peace in the region. For about oh 25 years or so China has been moving away from supporting Pali militants and towards full relations both economic and political with Israel.2[/url]

China is one of the first nation to recognize israel mainly because israel was doing the same when communist succeeded the KMT.

But china has never shifted its support for a two state solution and also the right to return

 

[exceed]

Firstly, there has never been any evidence of a national policy in Israel to sterilize anybody. In fact the reverse is true, the department of health run by the government has made it clear proper patient understanding should occur before delivering birth control.

Secondly, giving someone birth control is not sterilizing them.

But feel free to keep buying into the myths. We already know your bias.

What myths? Bring up that article again. I have a feeling this is going to be good

 

[rld]

China is one of the first nation to recognize israel mainly because israel was doing the same when communist succeeded the KMT.

But china has never shifted its support for a two state solution and also the right to return

Actually you have that backwards.

Israel was one of the first nations to recognize Communist China. The revolutionary communist state did not recognize Israel until 1992.

No wonder your opinions are so f'ed up. You have shit backwards.

 

[fuji]

From the Haaretz article, repeatedly linked and quoted (sigh).

You must be the most incredibly stupid person on the planet. You just quoted proof that Israeli policy is NOT to inject them. That proves you are wrong.

Nowhere does it say that it was EVER an acceptable policy--it says that it is NOT an acceptable policy.

 

[exceed]

QUOTE=rld;4546785]Actually you have that backwards.

Israel was one of the first nations to recognize Communist China. The revolutionary communist state did not recognize Israel until 1992.

No wonder your opinions are so f'ed up. You have shit backwards.[/QUOTE]

How many times do I have to correct you on your history?


"After the victory of the**Chinese Communist Partyin the**Chinese Civil War**in 1949, the**People's Republic of China**was proclaimed under**Mao Zedong. China had at first recognized the Jewish State of**Israel. But after Israel became mostly a pro-Western and American ally China began to support the Arabs and the cause of the Palestinians."

 

[fuji]

Sort of, exceed. China made some statements about recognizing Israel in 1949, which would indeed technically count as recognition--but only technically. It never actually established diplomatic relations. It wasn't until 1992 that they actually established relations. Clearly China's relationships with Israel have grown significantly in strength, to the benefit of both nations, while China's past strong support for the Palestinians has significantly diminished.

 

[groggy]

You just quoted proof that Israeli policy is NOT to inject them. That proves you are wrong.

Nowhere does it say that it was EVER an acceptable policy--it says that it is NOT an acceptable policy.

The article states the minister of health ordered the shots stopped, and that the policy was 'unspoken'.
It also said the shots and 'unspoken' policy went on for 8 years before it was found out and ordered stopped.

 

[fuji]

The article states the minister of health ordered the shots stopped, and that the policy was 'unspoken'.

The minister did not say that there was an unspoken policy, you are just making shit up again. In fact what you are doing is taken an unsupported allegation from an activist, Hedva Eyal, and trying to pretend the minister said it. All this minister said was that it was against Israeli policy.