If Sweden is so wonderful not to mention Swedish attitudes towards the Hobby, and I’m so dead wrong, why is a certain Scandinavian living in Canada and posting here rather than living there and performing some sort of feminist penitence?
Swedish Anti-Prostitution Laws Deemed a "Success"
- Thread starter Phil C. McNasty
- Start date
While I would certainly consider the actions of many pimps to be exploitation, I somehow think that's not what you're saying. Are you referring to customers?
One reason why I stay away from streetwalkers. Now as to your seemingly major point - from personal interaction and TERB I've not yet met an SP particularly independents who said I'm being forced, or gave any sign of being forced.
Hence one has to ask, what are you really attempting to say?
I imagine that no Terb members are of the opinion that higher class escorts are exploited, or at least are no more exploited than others are in our capitalistic society. The lawmakers in Sweden and Norway will disagree with us.
I think it is harder to refute the thesis that streetwalkers are exploited by their customers.
Presumably you are including yourself as one of the TERB members who feel this way? Likewise that you feel that the governments of Sweden and Norway are mistaken.
If you read the post carefully, you would find that I do not disagree with the swedish and norwegian governments when it comes to streetwalkers.
Likewise it should not be hard to recall that in the post above yours I posted I do not support streetwalking.
That said: Presumably you are including yourself as one of the TERB members who feel that higher class escorts are not exploited, or at least are no more exploited than others are in our capitalistic society? Likewise that you feel that the governments of Sweden and Norway are mistaken - and I'm not discussing streetwalking.
That's what I thought you were saying and I disagree. While I believe streetwalkers are more likely to be exploited than high-class escorts, it's mostly because of the prevalence of pimps. High-class escorts tend to work independently or in reputable agencies. A streetwalker may also be less safe because her dealings are not taking place at a well-known hotel or other such venue. However, I can't see how a regular customer (as in, the non-violent and mentally stable) would be seen as having exploited a streetwalker.
That depends entirely upon how you define exploitation. I am willing to go along with the two nordic countries in this. As I posted earlier, exploitation is accepted in our society, as long as it is strictly economic.
So are you saying that you feel that most SPs are exploited and hence you will no longer hobby, or that it is almost entirely street walkers who are exploited and you can live with that, or what is it that you are saying? Presumably you don't believe you are doing so, but I'm confused as to what you it is you are saying, it seems to go back and forth.
Well, go ahead and define exploitation then. I define exploitation as forcing someone to do something against their will through coercion, such as the threat of violence, blackmail or the cutting off of an unrelated financial lifeline for failed compliance. A streetwalker offering someone a service for half the rate of a high-class escort and that someone accepting I do not see as exploitation.
a girl starting an escort website advertising her services or place ads online is not exploitation
That is not the usual definition of exploitation (threat of violence etc). I would use the definition: "Utilization of another person or group for selfish purposes".
In more marxist influenced societies, i.e nordic countries, exploitation is seen as taking advantage of another persons situation to for example pay them little in order to selfishly make higher profits. Hence the need for strong unions to limit exploitation of workers.
Again Danmand what is your opinion? You seem to be both running with the hare and hunting with the hounds either that or failing to make clear that you are only writing about streetwalking.
It is the purpose of this post to clear up your confusion, although I fail to see why it has arisen at all; refer to post 47
That definition encompasses any situation where an individual is employed by another person.
Lets use that definition for now, even though it too covers a wide swath of situations. Who is doing that form of exploitation? Obviously not the customers as they aren't reaping a profit. Escort agencies? Pimps? If a pimp keeps 20% of a streetwalkers income, is that exploitation? What if he only pays for her room and board? If you remove all the negative connotations associated with the word "pimp" and instead refer to these people as agents marketing another individuals talents, does your opinion change?
First off why do they "have" to put in New Legislation? Depending upon how the Supreme Court of Canada rules why not just live with the law as the court has remade it? Further, they might choose merely to deal with the street walking issue.
Next, perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't believe that there is huge support for the Nordic model in Canada, the Government I believe has other fish it would rather fry.
I agree with you, I just want to add to that. The problem with that definition of exploitation is that we now have to define what "unfair" is. The line between the fair and unfair is blurry and continuously moving.
