Please cite for me an English Cathedral that was set on fire in a peasant's revolt.
You have 17 choices leaving aside cathedrals that were abbey churches before the Reformation.
Was Mother Teresa a jerk? You bet.
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You have 17 choices leaving aside cathedrals that were abbey churches before the Reformation.
OK so now you are saying that of the hundreds perhaps even over a thousand medieval cathedrals in Europe, one of them was burned down!i saw it on a documentary about the great cathedrals of europe
peasants would revolt against a generation of taxes (it took a lifetime to build a cathedral in medieval europe)
it might not have been Chartes they burnt down but it was one of them as they got fed up with the taxes
not specificallyOK so now you are saying that of the hundreds perhaps even over a thousand medieval cathedrals in Europe, one of them was burned down!
the documentary discussed three great cathedrals of france of which one was burned down by peasant tax revolt
then rebuilt
i think it was chartes but not sure
Yes, I meant the RC church.Perhaps in the Roman Catholic Church, certainly not true of Orthodoxy.
It was during the French Revolution when a red capped mob 'tried to burn down Chartres, but the local townsfolk stopped them and it wasn't about taxes. The Cathedral was only slightly damaged.many of the cathedrals resulted in peasant revolt against onerous taxes
that is a fact
I believe it was Chartes they burned down to stop the taxes so it had to be rebuilt
Love her or hate her P.M. Thatcher was spot on when asked about the principle achievements of the French Revolution: "piles of headless corpses, and a tyrant."It was during the French Revolution when a red capped mob 'tried to burn down Chartres, but the local townsfolk stopped them and it wasn't about taxes. The Cathedral was only slightly damaged.
The FR accomplished rather more than that. As bloody as it was, it marked a significant turning point in the conception of what government should be and how people should relate to it.Love her or hate her P.M. Thatcher was spot on when asked about the principle achievements of the French Revolution: "piles of headless corpses, and a tyrant."
Whether the FR was cause, or whether it was consequences, it is generally considered to mark the beginning of the "modern era".
What do you mean by "religious types"? Is it that religions are a fraud or that religious people are frauds? I can understand the first. The second is just ignorant.All religious types are frauds.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. Religion is a force for evil in this world. Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Hindu - they're all the same. Evil.
Mother Teresa? Just another religious fraudster.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...int-new-canadian-study-claims/article9317551/
What do you mean it was her job?She worked in a shithole hospice in India, because it was her job.
Priests and nuns are assigned jobs, and Mama T was assigned the job of working in a hospice. Sadly, it was her deranged interpretation of church doctrine, that led her to deny basic analgesics to her charges, and that led to an incomprehensible level of unnecessary suffering for all those poor bastards under her care.
It continues to this day, in her cult’s hospices in the US. http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/11728
“Mother Teresa has a San Francisco hostel named the Gift of Love, for homeless men with HIV. They are not allowed to watch TV or smoke or drink or invite friends, not even when they are dying and so of course are exceptionally depressed. One man said how afraid he was of dying without morphine. It is hard to find anyone with a good word to say for the Gift of Love.”
She became a superstar in life, and deified in death, by the same publicity machine that turns a random cute boy spotted on facebook into an international icon.
There are still some 50 million dollars worth of donations left in a charity set up in her name. During the time that she came to basically run her little Catholic spin-off cult, there was plenty of money to provide for morphine drips, except Mamma T decided that suffering will do these poor sinners more good.
The real good, was in the millions of people who kicked out the millions of dollars. Dollars that will be eventually absorbed by the Vatican to buy more gold plate. If that money had gone to a reputable charity, real competent professionals, and or volunteers, could have done infinitely more good.
What do you mean she was "assigned "to it.
People arent assigned to do that kind of work.
If somenone doesn't have the absolute conviction, and will, and desire(for whatever reason) and temperament, and fucking balls, to do that,
they wouldn't survive one day in that shithole. Nor would they be put in that position.
Yea, that's right, there all out there collecting paychecks.
And I'm not a MT fan, I don't even like her, for the reasons you pointed out, and more.
And I think even less of the Vatican.
And I'm sure that her own calling fullfilled something in her, twisted or not.
But it doesn;t change the fact that she did what she did to help in the worst parts of the world.
And all I responded to was the fact that Burton acknowldged her for what she did, not for being religious...and you went off about how she didn't
deserve anything for being religious.
I'm not sure if I can clarify this any further.
Begining of the "modern era" because we have to start somewhere, however, it was really the consequences of the Napoleonic Wars (and you could include 1812 in that) which made it such.
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It’s pretty simple. **You don’t walk into a nunnery and tell them that you want to work with children, or animals, or someplace not too hot.**What do you mean it was her job?
What do you mean she was "assigned "to it.
People arent assigned to do that kind of work.
If somenone doesn't have the absolute conviction, and will, and desire(for whatever reason) and temperament, and fucking balls, to do that,
they wouldn't survive one day in that shithole. Nor would they be put in that position.
Yea, that's right, there all out there collecting paychecks.
And I'm not a MT fan, I don't even like her, for the reasons you pointed out, and more.
And I think even less of the Vatican.
And I'm sure that her own calling fullfilled something in her, twisted or not.
But it doesn;t change the fact that she did what she did to help in the worst parts of the world.
And all I responded to was the fact that Burton acknowldged her for what she did, not for being religious...and you went off about how she didn't
deserve anything for being religious.
I'm not sure if I can clarify this any further.
Just like you don’t sign up for the air force, and tell them you want to fly jets.
They tell you what to do, and where to do it, and a prospective Jet-Boy could find himself flying a typewriter instead.
Mamma T joined an established order in Albania, was sent to Ireland to learn English, and was then assigned to be a teacher in India. **She didn’t go to India because she was fond of the curry, and may not in fact have been entirely clear on where exactly India was on the map.
After twenty years of teaching, and rising to the rank of Headmistress, she eventually did something unusual in a Catholic order, where obedience is supposed to be absolute, in that she petitioned to leave to start her own school and this eventually morphed into her own cult.
The Indian government was quite supportive, and as money and converts started to roll in, she petitioned and received Vatican approval for her own congregation.
As far as servitude in shitholes is concerned, the world is full of people doing exactly that, and more. The armed forces is full of people doing precisely that, and with purer motives. Firefighters digging in the rubble in Haiti, and medical personnel serving in Doctors without borders, teachers, you name it. Just because they believe it's the right thing to do. And what's more, many without expectation of rewards in an afterlife either. How does that compare in your mind? Risking their lives, knowing full well there won't be any virgins, or a happy Jesus waiting for them, but just going and doing regardless.
.... but that fire was not started by a mob revolting against taxes, which was the initial claim. It was caused by lightning.Apparently Chatres was burned down!
http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/81
Chartres Cathedral - Chartres Cathedral France
Oh, so now she petitioned to leave to start her her own school. So, she was sent to India to teach and became headmistress, she wasn't sent to work in the slums.It’s pretty simple. **You don’t walk into a nunnery and tell them that you want to work with children, or animals, or someplace not too hot.**
Just like you don’t sign up for the air force, and tell them you want to fly jets.
They tell you what to do, and where to do it, and a prospective Jet-Boy could find himself flying a typewriter instead.
Mamma T joined an established order in Albania, was sent to Ireland to learn English, and was then assigned to be a teacher in India. **She didn’t go to India because she was fond of the curry, and may not in fact have been entirely clear on where exactly India was on the map.
After twenty years of teaching, and rising to the rank of Headmistress, she eventually did something unusual in a Catholic order, where obedience is supposed to be absolute, in that she petitioned to leave to start her own school and this eventually morphed into her own cult.
The Indian government was quite supportive, and as money and converts started to roll in, she petitioned and received Vatican approval for her own congregation.
As far as servitude in shitholes is concerned, the world is full of people doing exactly that, and more. The armed forces is full of people doing precisely that, and with purer motives. Firefighters digging in the rubble in Haiti, and medical personnel serving in Doctors without borders, teachers, you name it. Just because they believe it's the right thing to do. And what's more, many without expectation of rewards in an afterlife either. How does that compare in your mind? Risking their lives, knowing full well there won't be any virgins, or a happy Jesus waiting for them, but just going and doing regardless.
So then, it wasn't the "job" she was "assigned" to do.
Your whole argument is based on mischaracterization and conjecture about motive, both for which I'm not going to go around in circles trying to argue against.
If you like. You can have the point. She was assigned to work in Calcutta. Then after twenty years she split from the organization and worked for herself in a different part of Calcutta, one that smelled even worse.Oh, so now she petitioned to leave to start her her own school. So, she was sent to India to teach and became headmistress, she wasn't sent to work in the slums.
So then, it wasn't the "job" she was "assigned" to do.
It was 1946. At the time, all of Calcutta was a mess. Recovering from the famine of ‘43, and WW2.
I made the point that she wasn’t and isn’t the only aid worker in Calcutta, but you ignored it. But she was the only one who didn’t give anesthetics to extreme cases on principle, because, according to her deranged philosophy, “it is the most beautiful gift for a person that he can participate in the sufferings of Christ.”
Her hospices were props. She refused to spend donation funds on improving conditions there. She’d show the media how shitty things were in her hospices, ask for more money, and spend the money on building new shitty hospices in other places, and thus expand her power base.
No elevators. On principle. No hot water. On principle. Keep the hygiene levels low, it makes for better video, and brings in more money. The pattern continues to this day.
MT was a monster. She was crazy. This is not conjectural speculation. She enjoyed watching people writhing in agony. She called it the "Theology of suffering" and it greatly concerned Rome, but with a skyrocketing media approval rating, and money and converts coming in, they let her have her way.
Can you think of another class of crazy people who enjoy watching people suffer? I can.
.... but that fire was not started by a mob revolting against taxes, which was the initial claim. It was caused by lightning.
Chartres Cathedral - Chartres Cathedral France
the documentary seemed well researched
it was a peasant tax revolt
they burned the church during construction to stop the insane taxes
"The site of the present Chartres Cathedral France has hosted no fewer than four other cathedrals that were destroyed by fire"
in your reference it seems to have been destroyed by lightning after completion not during constructon
It talked about the fire of 1194. Are you saying there was more than one fire that year?the documentary seemed well researched
it was a peasant tax revolt
they burned the church during construction to stop the insane taxes
"The site of the present Chartres Cathedral France has hosted no fewer than four other cathedrals that were destroyed by fire"
in your reference it seems to have been destroyed by lightning after completion not during constructon
Just one source;http://www.homeschoolonline.co.uk/art/great-works-of-art/chartres-cathedral.htmlOn June 10, 1194, a terrible fire destroyed part of the town of Chartres. The people mourned the destruction of their beautiful church. They also thought they had lost their precious relic. But in fact, the tunic had been saved. This was considered a special sign from Mary that the cathedral be rebuilt in accordance with her requirements. The cathedral was to be a throne suitable for Mary, the symbol of love. Parts of the western facade were the only structures not destroyed by the fire.
I can find more and none mention a peasant revolt in 1194. as the building of a cathedral was a money maker for the locals, purposely burning it down or causing work stoppages seems to be a non starter, but you can understand why others would stop any attempt. There are all ready a number of reasons for stoppages, without labour sabatage.
it was a money maker after being builtIt talked about the fire of 1194. Are you saying there was more than one fire that year?
Just one source;http://www.homeschoolonline.co.uk/art/great-works-of-art/chartres-cathedral.html
I can find more and none mention a peasant revolt in 1194. as the building of a cathedral was a money maker for the locals, purposely burning it down or causing work stoppages seems to be a non starter, but you can understand why others would stop any attempt. There are all ready a number of reasons for stoppages, without labour sabatage.
i briefly searched documentaries on the net but could not find the one i saw but it is out there somewhere
my recollection is the fire where the tunic of mary was saved and the burning of the town itself was a peasant revolt against the taxes of the church as donations and the selling of indulgences was not enough money to complete the cathedral so they taxed the peasants
it was not started by lightening strikes as referenced
it appears there is more than one version of events
the real one and the one told by the church?
The labourers and the professional craftsman that built the church or supplied material were paid for their work or product and in most cases they were locals. They made money 'before' the church was finished. Outside skilled workers had to lodged and fed and those who did that made money before the the church was finishedit was a money maker after being built
i briefly searched documentaries on the net but could not find the one i saw but it is out there somewhere
my recollection is the fire where the tunic of mary was saved and the burning of the town itself was a peasant revolt against the taxes of the church as donations and the selling of indulgences was not enough money to complete the cathedral so they taxed the peasants
it was not started by lightening strikes as referenced
it appears there is more than one version of events
the real one and the one told by the church?
What was the name do the documentary/program? The fact that neither you nor I can find any reference should give you an indication that you might be confusing it with another event. There piles of information on the cathedral.
Considering your pedigree, no big whoop.If an internet psycho sez so..so be it.
