why the minimum wage is bad

msog87

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During his State of the Union address last Tuesday, President Obama made only one tangible, simple proposal:

"A family with two kids that earns the minimum wage still lives below the poverty line. That's wrong... Tonight, let's declare that, in the wealthiest nation on Earth, no one who works full time should have to live in poverty, and raise the federal minimum wage to $9 an hour."

Immediately the idea was embraced by the left. Those on the right who objected, were considered elitist haters willing to trample the poor in pursuit of the mighty buck. Suffice it to say, caring about humanity and objecting to the proposed minimum wage hike are not mutually exclusive.

Peter Schiff of president & CEO Euro Pacific Capital isn't likely to cool the heated rhetoric but he does know how to make his point. Characterizing the proposal as the "stupidest" of the President's ideas, Schiff says a hike in the minimum wage would have exactly the opposite of the intended effect. "It's not going to lift the wages of workers," Schiff says in the attached video. "What it's going to do is diminish employment opportunities."

Companies paying minimum wage aren't necessarily rapacious. Being a cashier at Wal-Mart (WMT) or McDonalds (MCD) was never supposed to be considered a lifelong full-time job. However that makes one feel, is beside the point. It's capitalism. A higher minimum wage means lower margins. When you raise hiring costs you reduce the number of jobs available. Period.

"What we really should do is completely abolish the minimum wage, that would make a lot of sense," says Schiff, using Singapore as an example of a strong economy with no minimum wage. "We didn't have a minimum wage for most of American history. It's something that started in the 20th Century. It was a bad idea and we ought to admit that it was a bad idea and get rid of it completely."

Beyond the standard political rhetoric, the President's $9 proposal is flawed at its heart. Obama is right that it's a travesty for Americans working full-time to live in poverty. If the solution is a higher minimum wage, Obama isn't going nearly far enough at $9 an hour.

The family of three in the President's example is still below the poverty line by official government measures. Earning $9 an hour rate is equal to $18,000 a year. By neither the official measure nor by the yardstick of humanity is a family of three not impoverished if its making ends meet on $18,000 a year.

Putting minimum wage on the table for national discussion is the right thing to do. What's not right is for a second-term President to waste the opportunity he has to make a real difference. By pegging $9 to inflation Obama takes minimum off the table for years to come. He's squandering the one shot the Left has to do something meaningful.

Minimum wage should either be lower to get as many people on what Schiff calls the first rung of the employment ladder as possible, or much higher to actually ease some pain.

$9 just leads to fewer jobs for working poor. It's not a win for Liberalism or a blow to Conservatives. It's a cynical cop out; the kind the country has grown to expect from Washington.
 

nottyboi

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The minimum wage in Australia is $15.96/hour the unemployment rate in Australia is 5.40%...any further questions?
 

bazokajoe

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If you got rid of the minimum wage then employers would pay their workers even less making the poverty situation worse.There has to be a minimum wage.What that wage should be will always be debated.
 

simon482

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i would talk to guys in georgia when i was there a couple months ago, maybe last summer. people were making 5$ an hour. how the fuck can you live on that. had another class A diesel mechanic in ohio and he was only making 12$ an hour compared to class A diesel mechanics in ontario making high 30$'s an hour.
 

simon482

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Not a lot of economics smarts in this thread so far.
i don't claim to be smart in economics. i do read a lot though and i know our economy is doing better than the u.s. i know the canadian bankers and people in charge did an alright job keeping us ahead of the downturn. i also know that i talked to a guy in georgia who was making 5$ an hour and another guy that was making 12$ an hour for a job that his equal up here was getting paid 30$+ an hour.

don't ask me the math or how it works. i just know we are doing better than them.
 

msog87

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The minimum wage in Australia is $15.96/hour the unemployment rate in Australia is 5.40%...any further questions?
australia has a booming economy bc of the mining industry which makes up most of the countries economy, those jobs pay much more than 15$ an hour. Why not just raise the minimum wage to 25$ an hour then and lift even more ppl out of poverty? so your example is flawed. look at hong kong, singapore, and the fact that throughout most of american history there was no minimum wage and america had the largest strongest middle class
 

msog87

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I take it you don't work as a greeter at Walmart.

You are just an elitist hater willing to trample the poor in pursuit of the mighty buck.

you arnt supposed to raise a family working a minimum wage job. minimum wage jobs are called entry level jobs for a reason.
 

fuji

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The minimum wage has some non obvious aspects that can be beneficial.

It results in a higher skilled and better educated workforce with increased literacy levels because people remain unemployed until they complete a level of education or training that justifies paying them minimum wage.

Thus if it is a national policy objective to specialize into skilled labor, the minimum wage can help achieve that.

An interesting way to think of the minimum wage is therefore the bar everyone must reach in order to be employed, ad a feature of the public education system.
 

SandGino

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australia has a booming economy bc of the mining industry which makes up most of the countries economy, those jobs pay much more than 15$ an hour. Why not just raise the minimum wage to 25$ an hour then and lift even more ppl out of poverty? so your example is flawed. look at hong kong, singapore, and the fact that throughout most of american history there was no minimum wage and america had the largest strongest middle class
Australia is only one of several countries with a higher minimum than the US. If one were to follow your simplistic logic then US should just go back to slavery days, that would create an even stronger middle class. But why you insist on starting these Economics threads is anyone's guess, it's obvious to everyone reading your posts that you didn't pass grade 11 economics !!
Perhaps you think people can be easily fooled, but the only person make a fool of themselves in these threads is you.
 

Azprint

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Weird article, nothing to eleborate as to why MW is bad just platitudes, something I learned to expect from Schiff. All I know that rent is roughly the same, groceries cost relatively close to what they used to before Ontario's 10.25 kicked in years ago. The thing that did change is that in my industry (retail) more pt positions became available at the expense of ft.
 

basketcase

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you arnt supposed to raise a family working a minimum wage job. minimum wage jobs are called entry level jobs for a reason.
And exactly what is the job growth pathway for a cashier or a caretaker that would allow them to support a family? Caretaker --> head caretaker, --> CEO? And how many of these head caretaker jobs will be available for all of the entry level workers to progress into?
 

msog87

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Dec 11, 2011
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Australia is only one of several countries with a higher minimum than the US. If one were to follow your simplistic logic then US should just go back to slavery days, that would create an even stronger middle class. But why you insist on starting these Economics threads is anyone's guess, it's obvious to everyone reading your posts that you didn't pass grade 11 economics !!
Perhaps you think people can be easily fooled, but the only person make a fool of themselves in these threads is you.
your post is retarded, no one is talking slavery. my point is the american ppl became the wealthiest on earth without the minimum wage and other govt programs. the country has been in a steady decline and now you want to double down on failed policy? there are millions of americans out of work doing nothing, their skills are eroding and they are basically becoming vegetables. abolish the minimum wage, and millions of new jobs will be created. those who are unemployed due to their skill level will find jobs, sure they may start at 5$ an hour but if they learn valuable skills they can climb the ladder. why do you think we have internships? same shit. the minimum wage robs the unskilled worker of a brighter future bc the government prices them out of the market
 

nottyboi

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australia has a booming economy bc of the mining industry which makes up most of the countries economy, those jobs pay much more than 15$ an hour. Why not just raise the minimum wage to 25$ an hour then and lift even more ppl out of poverty? so your example is flawed. look at hong kong, singapore, and the fact that throughout most of american history there was no minimum wage and america had the largest strongest middle class
So what, It still disproves the theory that a high min wage will reduce the number of jobs. So what if there was no min wage thought most of American history. We are talking about now. Like all changes it will cause some issues, but I think it will prove to be a good idea.
 

WoodPeckr

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why the minimum wage is bad
Agreed it is BAD!!!

It should be scrapped and replaced with a Living Wage, pegged at a penny above the Poverty Level!!!

It's the Christian thing to do!....:amen:

Only a cold blooded, blood sucking pagan capitalist and their amoral apologists lacking any conscience would disagree.....:eyebrows:
 

Imperius

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Aug 23, 2012
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The goal of the $9/hr minimum wage proposal isn't maximum/full employment. It's to provide those who are employed a (barely) livable wage, while at the same time considering the needs of employers to continue to run their business profitably. It also acts as an incentive to those who might be on social assistance to enter the workforce. It tries to strike a balance.

And while economics would suggest that higher wage costs may lead to lower employment, in the cases cited (Wal-Mart and McDonalds) it is highly doubtful that minimum wage positions would actually be cut. After all, those companies are still raking in the dough even at the higher, yet still modest wages. Are they really going to risk selling fewer goods (that still make a profit) by cutting frontline staff... especially the ones that actually take the money from the customers? :)

While a strong middle class is a worthy goal, so too is ensuring the poorer members of society are not ruthlessly exploited. That's something that happens too often in some of the developing countries with little to no social support programs that Schiff seems to admire so much. And eventually, that's how revolutions start, and I'm sure Schiff would agree, that's bad for business.
 

JackBurton

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Jan 5, 2012
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Chris Rock said it best: " minimum wage means we would pay you less but it's against the law" everyone bitches about unions except for those they protect. Rob Ford economics of cutting and cutting simply don't work except to be politically popular
 
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