How can you see an SP without breaking any laws?

[lingamyoni]

Until the proposed laws in Ontario change, what is fully legal in Toronto?

I'm talking the whole process - from the initial conversation about the meeting, to where the meeting takes place, to what happens during that meeting - without breaking the law once.

 

[Bubbles99]

Laws are meant to be broken....just saying!

 

[Moraff]

Private conversation (ie phone or email/text) to arrange meeting and have her come to your house or a hotel room you've rented.

 

[lingamyoni]

Great to know, thank you all! So if I call one of the agencies for an Outcall, without discussing more than the duration of the meeting, would that still be legal (even though I'm not talking with the SP herself)?

 

[danibbler]

You've been here for over two years and you haven't figured it out by now?

 

[lingamyoni]

You've been here for over two years and you haven't figured it out by now?

Oh yes, of course I've figured it out. I just thought it'd be hilarious to ask a question I already knew the answer to. Why, do you never ask those kinds of questions?

 

[fuji]

Great to know, thank you all! So if I call one of the agencies for an Outcall, without discussing more than the duration of the meeting, would that still be legal (even though I'm not talking with the SP herself)?

In a private phone conversation you can discuss whatever you like, "Do you provide CIM? How much for greek?" and you're still fully legal. It is only PUBLIC communications that get you into trouble--so, basically, the same conversation but in your car chatting up a street walker would be very illegal (and often prosecuted) because the street is considered a public place. A phone call is private and not covered by that public communications law.

 

[lenny2]

In a private phone conversation you can discuss whatever you like, "Do you provide CIM? How much for greek?" and you're still fully legal. It is only PUBLIC communications that get you into trouble--so, basically, the same conversation but in your car chatting up a street walker would be very illegal (and often prosecuted) because the street is considered a public place. A phone call is private and not covered by that public communications law.

So a phone conversation in front of a police officer or shouting out loud at the police station, so everyone hears, is legal because it's private,
even though you're saying, "How much for CIM and Greek? $200 okay deal?" ???

It has been said undercover LE posing as SP's won't get in the car & let you drive away with them, so talking business re sex for dollars in
a moving vehicle is safe from legal prosecution. And, it has been claimed, neither will undercover LE let you feel them up or touch your weenie.

 

[dirkd101]

It's like the Python skit, paying to have an arguement. You are paying for her time, to have a converstaion. If sex breaks out, well, that's between consenting adults.

 

[Mr_East]

It would be tough for them to uphold charges at this point based on the fact they upheld the legal challenge. It's not the publics fault it's taking them a year to draft the law!

 

[Hangman]

Laws are meant to be broken....just saying!

Private conversation (ie phone or email/text) to arrange meeting and have her come to your house or a hotel room you've rented.

These pretty well cover it. And don't rob a liquor store on your way to meet her.

 

[oldjones]

Great to know, thank you all! So if I call one of the agencies for an Outcall, without discussing more than the duration of the meeting, would that still be legal (even though I'm not talking with the SP herself)?

Yup. There is no offence for paying the avails, only receiving. Nor is there any difference for you in discussing sex with the agency or the SP, since the conversation isn't in a public place. The danger is all theirs, they must avoid any inference that they are negociating sex for money, as that would open them to an accusation of pimping/avails. You can be as direct as you want, but that will likely arouse their suspicions that you're trying to lead them into incriminating themselves.

 

[oldjones]

So a phone conversation in front of a police officer or shouting out loud at the police station, so everyone hears, is legal because it's private,
even though you're saying, "How much for CIM and Greek? $200 okay deal?" ???

It has been said undercover LE posing as SP's won't get in the car & let you drive away with them, so talking business re sex for dollars in
a moving vehicle is safe from legal prosecution. And, it has been claimed, neither will undercover LE let you feel them up or touch your weenie.

Communicating for the purpose of prostitution in a public place—like the lobby of a police station—is a crime. It is not whether the conversation is private, but whether the place is. A moving vehicle is not a public place, if it's a private car, a bus is a public moving vehicle, again it is the public nature that counts, not the motion. I suspect however it is the motion that counts in the feeling up example: If things actually got that far, I'd bet arrest wasn't in the offing, since it isn't the sex act but the communication before it that is the crime. If you make that sorta move first, they'd have grounds to charge you with sexual assault.

 

[fuji]

Oldjones, I believe there was a ruling that a private car is in fact still a public place if it is on the street. If you pick up a streetwalker, and talk to her in your car, and she turns out to be a cop, I believe you're going to be charged. That is, depending on the outcome of the current legal challenge.

What is undeniably legal is calling an SP on the phone from your home or hotel room and arranging an appointment in your hotel or home.

If you call an escort agency instead of an independent SP, then you and the escort are still completely in the clear, but the agency itself might be technically in violation of the "living off the avails" law, though, it's never or almost never prosecuted.

 

[fuji]

So a phone conversation in front of a police officer or shouting out loud at the police station, so everyone hears, is legal because it's private,
even though you're saying, "How much for CIM and Greek? $200 okay deal?" ???

I think the answer may be, "nobody knows", because nobody has ever been dumb enough to do that, and so there probably isn't a test case. Phone conversations are considered private. Shouting out your phone conversation at a police officer on a public street may be considered public.

 

[TRossi]

In a private phone conversation you can discuss whatever you like, "Do you provide CIM? How much for greek?" and you're still fully legal. It is only PUBLIC communications that get you into trouble--so, basically, the same conversation but in your car chatting up a street walker would be very illegal (and often prosecuted) because the street is considered a public place. A phone call is private and not covered by that public communications law.

So a phone conversation in front of a police officer or shouting out loud at the police station, so everyone hears, is legal because it's private,
even though you're saying, "How much for CIM and Greek? $200 okay deal?" ???

It has been said undercover LE posing as SP's won't get in the car & let you drive away with them, so talking business re sex for dollars in
a moving vehicle is safe from legal prosecution. And, it has been claimed, neither will undercover LE let you feel them up or touch your weenie.

That probably has more to do with the safety concerns of the UC rather than being 'safe from legal prosecution'. A moving vehicle is still considered a public place (see below)

Communicating for the purpose of prostitution in a public place—like the lobby of a police station—is a crime. It is not whether the conversation is private, but whether the place is.

Oldjones, I believe there was a ruling that a private car is in fact still a public place if it is on the street. If you pick up a streetwalker, and talk to her in your car, and she turns out to be a cop, I believe you're going to be charged. That is, depending on the outcome of the current legal challenge.

Stopping to pick up a streetwalker is not legal.

213. (1) Every person who in a public place or in any place open to public view (a) stops or attempts to stop any motor vehicle, (b) impedes the free flow of pedestrian or vehicular traffic or ingress to or egress from premises adjacent to that place

I think the answer may be, "nobody knows", because nobody has ever been dumb enough to do that, and so there probably isn't a test case. Phone conversations are considered private. Shouting out your phone conversation at a police officer on a public street may be considered public.

Communication in for the purposes of prostitution in a public place is illegal and was upheld by the Ontario Court of Appeals. Section 213 (2) “public place” includes any place to which the public have access as of right or by invitation, express or implied, and any motor vehicle located in a public place or in any place open to public view.

It is not about whether a phone conversation is 'private' or not, what is important is where that conversation takes place. Under the strictest sense of the law then, if you are in a public place and you are overheard on your mobile arranging escort services, that would be illegal. A phone conversation does not have the reasonable expectation of privacy if said conversation is made in a public place.

 

[red]

Until the proposed laws in Ontario change, what is fully legal in Toronto?

I'm talking the whole process - from the initial conversation about the meeting, to where the meeting takes place, to what happens during that meeting - without breaking the law once.

1. don't talk to her on cell while driving
2. don't run together with scissors
3. do coke deal after session
4. do not discuss shipping nuke technology to iran with her

 

[lenny2]

Communicating for the purpose of prostitution in a public place—like the lobby of a police station—is a crime. It is not whether the conversation is private, but whether the place is. A moving vehicle is not a public place, if it's a private car, a bus is a public moving vehicle, again it is the public nature that counts, not the motion. I suspect however it is the motion that counts in the feeling up example: If things actually got that far, I'd bet arrest wasn't in the offing, since it isn't the sex act but the communication before it that is the crime. If you make that sorta move first, they'd have grounds to charge you with sexual assault.

I'd only make that move if she invited me to feel her up. This sometimes happens after asking if she is LE.

 

[lenny2]

Communication in for the purposes of prostitution in a public place is illegal and was upheld by the Ontario Court of Appeals. Section 213 (2) “public place” includes any place to which the public have access as of right or by invitation, express or implied, and any motor vehicle located in a public place or in any place open to public view.

Any place which the public could be invited would include incalls, outcalls, & everywhere else.

There would be nowhere to communicate for prostitution legally.

 

[lenny2]

Stopping to pick up a streetwalker is not legal.

213. (1) Every person who in a public place or in any place open to public view (a) stops or attempts to stop any motor vehicle, (b) impedes the free flow of pedestrian or vehicular traffic or ingress to or egress from premises adjacent to that place

What if the "streetwalker" is not an SP but your SO you are picking up after work or something?

What if there is no traffic around for blocks?

I often get people impeding the "free flow of pedestrian...traffic" on the sidewalk & in the supermarket.
Should i make a citizen's arrest or just run them over?