I learned nothing useful in school, as did most people. You'll learn how to read and write, but if youre too lazy to educate yourself, to do some reading that isnt on the school curriculum, you will fail in life. all I ever remember in fact was my teachers bashing conservative values, values which by the way have made me successful in my life. You arnt gonna learn dick all in the public school system. teachers need to realize the govt is broke, how can you get a raise if your employer is losing money? the teachers need a pay cut not a pay freeze
Teachers to Boycott After School Programs
- Thread starter GameBoy27
- Start date
I never said anything about 50, someone else did. I never made any assumptions regarding age of retirement. Much like teachers dropping off 2 years after retirement it seems to be another number taken from thin air.
Also I guess I wasted my time explaining why population life expectancy is not the right number. How many kids who die of cancer when they are 5 get teachers pensions.
From http://www.lifeinsurancecanada.com/life-expectancy-calculator
A 50 year old woman can expect to live to 84
A 59 year old can expect to live to 85.
This is back in 2005 and are probably correct or a year longer now.
Also as I explained and you could either not be bothered to read, a teacher has certain demographic traits related to longevity not found in the general population that are linked to long life span. Educated people live longer than high school dropouts, people making 90 grand a year with minimal chance of job loss and fat pensions live longer than people on welfare. Truck drivers for example tend to pop off soon after 65 for various reasons. I'd guess they smoke more often than teachers and living on the road is bad in terms of diet and exercise for most of them.
The only thing I don't understand is that with a age of retirement being 59 and 30 years pension with 26 years service it would imply an average age of entry of 33, or younger with years off for child bearing more education or other sabbaticals. It seems high, but unlike some people, when faced with retirement stats from the provincial government, teachers unions and the people who RUN THE FREAKEN PLAN, I would first come to the conclusion that I was wrong.
Although it is really temping to burn you here, you did leave yourself open, I won't.
I was reading before I went to school. Dry humped the World Book Encyclopedia as a youngster, molested my unveristy library card as a high school student. Remember little from university except for the stuff I was motivated to learn on my own.
That seems to be the way it works. Granted I am an odd little duck. However survey after survey show a shocking ignorance of the most basic knowledge of history, science and geography, so it isn't as if the schools are doing a wonderful job. I know I still can't spell worth a damn and if the grammar Nazis ever take over the world, no amount of work will make me free. <--- see what I did there. If not, you should bone up on your history. Geography, History, Science, later on Economics, I was on that shit like a fly on some very seductive manure, just get out of my way.
That being said, being self educated, especially on the internet can lead to much dumbassery.
I don't understand why teachers not volunteering for after school programs is such a big deal. There are a myriad of sports and other activities that kids can join in the community.
The teachers should be focussing on teaching kids optimally in their classrooms. This is what they get paid to do.
As somebody who has a lot of teachers and principals in their family-- This is pretty much it.
In a nutshell, from the grumpy ranting I got from most of my kin who are currently teaching:
-They don't much like having their contracts amended by legislation. (And the unions were willing to negotiate.)
-They think the pols, senior bureaucrats, and government contractors should have been frozen and had their bonuses stripped if they took a freeze.
-Most teachers think it's hilarious that people EXPECT them to volunteer their time. ALL TEACHERS get a lot of pressure to do extra curricular stuff from the principal, the staff, and students. Most end up doing a fair bit of that stuff. Why? They're already at the school, they can often set up an activity they kind of like, and they want to be liked by the kids, and respected by the staff, parents, and principal. Not to mention the biggest hindrance to a teacher's career path (to be principal, vp, and a number of plum special educator and board jobs), is to not 'go that extra mile' for that sort of stupid shit.
As an aside, most teachers actually think it should be easier to fire teachers, but putting this in the hands of the Principal is the wrong choice. Why? If 1 in 6 teachers are shit, and principals are selected from teachers, about the same ratio of principals is shit. (By my experience the ratio is probably pretty good.)
Fun facts about being a teacher-- You can say 90 K, 2 1/2 months off, but:
-You need to get into teacher's college. If you think it's easy try it.
-They actually have to get hired full time. Which is highly competitive. You can spend years doing nothing but supply teaching and LTOs, being professional and kissing ass the whole time, before you get that job.
-Odds are if you don't have a bunch of years in you'll never know where you'll be the next year. This uncertainty kills. Particularly in rural boards.
-You have to work about a decade full time before you hit the top pay, you also need to have the highest educational qualifications. Starting pay is only 30 some K.
-In addition to the taxes you pay on that income benefits, pension, and union dues come out. You also have to pay your governing body.
-You also have to engage in a certain amount of professional development, often in the form of university level courses. Often eating that summer off and costing more money.
-To be an average teacher, who does the minimum necessary, and nothing extra, you work way more than a 40 hour week when school is in. Why? Straight up lack of prep time. At a minimum you have to have a lesson plan for every class every day, and it has to be curriculum compliant (that changes every year). You can get straight up fired if you don't have that. In addition to that you have to mark, coominicate with parents, and do normal office staff stuff. You also have to keep up with documentation that's mandatory from the principal, the board, and the province. That's a shit mess of documentation, especially since everybody is trying to legally cover their ass. Then there are those monstrous BS laden report cards. Then their are the non-optional optionals. Those concerts, open houses, and report card nights. You can't really dodge those.
-If you see a classroom that has fresh bright paint, nice bulletin boards, and actual disposable supplies (Like paper, and Kleenex, and art stuff). The teacher probably went out of pocket on that. There hasn't been much budget for that since the Harris days.
-I have an immediate member of the family who actually pays so the poor kids get the pizza days and the trips. You know, because paying for other people's kids is his job, right? This is actually fairly common... Most classroom events get priced per student, with no margin for the poorer kids. Somehow these kids still end up getting to do stuff. How do you thing that happens. (Even if they don't tell the poor kids' parents.)
-Oh, did I mention that in addition to co-workers, management, and other staff they also have to fucking kids and their parents. Speaking of the BIGGEST reason why I never went into teaching...
So yes, teachers generally get pissy when you look at then as babysitters and 'mandatory volunteers'. Ramming this though via legislation was a slap in the face, and why is it their job to be 'mandatory volunteers' for other people's children? Especially when every other asshole goes, "They get summers off and like 90K!". Teaching is not some straight 9 - 5 gig. To be merely average you work someplace between long and crazy hours when school is in, need many skill sets, and end up paying out of pocket for other people's kids. It's all well and good to say, 'If you can't do teach.', but the truth today is that it is very hard to get into a Canadian teachers college, very hard to get that job, and these people could actually have done other things... I know, I actually considered going into (almost the family trade) of teaching... I chose not to because I didn't view it as 'worth it' even though I make less than a teacher at the top of their pay scale... That I'd be approaching right now... Just not worth it...
Hey Fatone.... sorry read Probyn's post quickly didn't see where your quote ended and his began.
Retiring at 50 is unlikely as to collect a pension without penalities they would have to start teaching at 15.
But he does raise a point in that the average age of retirement is not 54 which is the minimum age to collect a pension without any penalties and assuming no skipping of grades or other fast tracking. Other people might have taken some time off school (their own education), gone off to pursue other things before teaching, taken leave(s) during teaching career, maternaity leaves. some choose to teach past their elgible age of retirement for bigger pensions and what not..... these all increase their elgible age of retirement.
So your 59 sounds pretty reasonable as an average.
Typically the costs of playing in school team is cheaper. For example, you don't have to rent a soccer field if you have one. So I think there is value in sports in school as it's good for the kids socially and great for kids who can't afford sports outside of school. Plus what if your parents don't have the time or means to cart you around to all your games?
Great post but people who hate teacher's don't want to hear any of that.
A point I'd add is if you don't volunteer to do stuff and build your resume.... good luck
1) becoming a subject head/lead teacher
2) becoming a VP or P
3) having your pick of schools if you want to transfer to a school that works better for you
For those who are at a school they like and have no aspirations for promotions and more money then they can forget about volunteering..... but that's a broad generalization as some volunteer because they happen to like a sport, activity or charity.
Option's Menu what you've described is pretty much what I hear from my teacher friends and family too.
If quality of teaching is the issue then let's put that on the table. I think many teachers would support less protection for the deadweight.
Most people want to paint teachers in one colour and some will go so far as to defend that position which shows you what teachers are up against.
JL is all about bring in the new teachers.
Well I did a google search. Turns out Stephen Lewis is a relatively new school which means on average a younger staff. That throws out the window that the young, enthusiastic are all about the kids and not the money.
Well I did a google search. Turns out Stephen Lewis is a relatively new school which means on average a younger staff. That throws out the window that the young, enthusiastic are all about the kids and not the money.
Well Einstein
If the compensation was reduced to a level the province could afford (who said anything about minimum wage?) and you still have people willing to teach, then we can safely say that money is not their primary consideration in a career choice
Again this is the type of people we want teaching
The ones motivated by an excessive compensation should look to a healthy sector of the private sector and be willing to work their ass off
This is very basic logic
Is common sense not part of the teachers college curriculum?
I am not all about bringing in new teachers.
I am all about elimininating wasteful spending and preventing the piling on unmanageable debt to provide special interest groups with their excessive entitlement.
How many times do I have to explain that to you ?
Re: Stephen Lewis.
Please stop making excuses for select groups within your collective bargining unit
If you are willing to take the benefits that result from bargining (extorting) as a group, have the conviction to act as a group.
i.e you are either a member of a union or you are not !!
You want to pick and choose your moments to be a card carrying burden on society.
Sorry , it does not work that way, unless the opposite side gets to pick and choose different settlements for each member
I'm just saying that even if you dropped it to minimum watge you'd still find people taking the job for the wrong reasons. Unless people just love flipping burgers.
I'm not making excuses. I'm just suggesting that the actions of one school does not reflect the rest of the schools, boards, province.
You do know that there are 3 unions for elementary, high school and catholic right? And that each board will have to figure out their contracts in accordance to the guidelines provided from above..... meaning that from board to board there could be variation? And the catholic union has taken the cuts. So why lump three unions where one has settled all into the same lump?
Unfortunately as a member of a union, you have only one position
If all teachers are painted with the same brush, it is because the union position is your position.
Again, please do not attempt to mitigate the absurdity of your unions position by implying it is not universally supported by all members.
The taxpayer only sees the cost of the unions position.
If you object to being painted with the same brush as others, do not sign up for collective bargaining
Frank, you can not have it both ways i.e reap the benefit, and distance yourself from the bargaining unit
THEY REPRESENT YOU !!!!
As opposed to the current group, which as you admit, has taken the job primarily for the compensation.
That is the wrong reason to get into teaching
You're preaching to the choir. I'm not a teacher, but I can assure you I have the same and MORE grief you listed above. The only thing I don't have to do is deal with the little bastards, however, I do have to deal with big bastards and big bastards can be as bad or worse than little bastards.
See, I (and a lot of people on this forum I'm sure) have one albatross around our necks that teachers will NEVER have and cannot appreciate.
Picking up work.
I have to wade out into that big bad ocean every day called the market place and find and pick up work to keep about 100 people employed. I have to find the work, I have bid the work, my price has to be the lowest, then I need to do the work and it has to be fucking right or I'm in big shit.
If you think that is easy - I can asssure you. It is NOT.
Guys on this forum who are in the same place as me will tell you that this stress of keeping a company supplied with work is a huge stress. HUGE. It's like if teachers would have to re-apply for their job every month. Imagine that.
You don't need to be derogatory - calling him "Einstein" is not called for. (Though I know given your past history on this forum it fits. But newsflash - it's not cool.)
Maybe the solution is that people start paying for their kids to go to school. Use the tax base to fund the cost of the infrastructure, etc. but start charging user fees to people with kids in school.
trtinajax is also correct that there needs to be a complete restructuring of the whole way that the bureaucracy is set up. Enough it is enough. Merge all the boards into a single board working under the the Ministry of Education. Lay off all the duplication.
trtinajax is also correct that there needs to be a complete restructuring of the whole way that the bureaucracy is set up. Enough it is enough. Merge all the boards into a single board working under the the Ministry of Education. Lay off all the duplication.
