Iran Talks fail again

[basketcase]

(didn't want to search for one of the previous threads)

No Surprise here but worth bringing up.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/19/us-iran-nuclear-talks-idUSBRE85I1D720120619

Seems Iran wanted sanctions lifted before continuing - sort of cart before the horse if you ask me.

 

[groggy]

No true, Iran wants sanctions to be lifted as they cede to extra conditions.
The question is whether Israel will threaten to nuke them, as they threatened to nuke Iraq.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/15/pakistan-boasted-nuclear-strike-pakistan?newsfeed=true

 

[rld]

No true, Iran wants sanctions to be lifted as they cede to extra conditions.
The question is whether Israel will threaten to nuke them, as they threatened to nuke Iraq.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/15/pakistan-boasted-nuclear-strike-pakistan?newsfeed=true

Your link does not match what you posted.

Iran keeps gaming at their own risk.

 

[gryfin]

Your link does not match what you posted.

Iran keeps gaming at their own risk.

May I suggest a tactic known as "reading the entire article."

"Campbell also relays another nuclear threat a year later when George Bush told Blair he feared that Ariel Sharon, the former Israeli prime minister, was planning to launch a nuclear attack against Iraq. In an account of a conversation with Bush at a Nato summit in Prague in November 2002, as diplomatic pressure intensified on Saddam Hussein, Campbell writes: "[George Bush] felt that if we got rid of Saddam, we could make progress on the Middle East. He reported on some of his discussions with [Ariel] Sharon, and said he had been pretty tough with him. Sharon had said that if Iraq hit Israel, their response would 'escalate' which he took to mean go nuclear. Bush said he said to him 'You will not, you will not do that, it would be crazy.' He said he would keep them under control, adding 'A nuke on Baghdad, that could be pretty tricky.'"

 

[rld]

May I suggest a tactic known as "reading the entire article."

"Campbell also relays another nuclear threat a year later when George Bush told Blair he feared that Ariel Sharon, the former Israeli prime minister, was planning to launch a nuclear attack against Iraq. In an account of a conversation with Bush at a Nato summit in Prague in November 2002, as diplomatic pressure intensified on Saddam Hussein, Campbell writes: "[George Bush] felt that if we got rid of Saddam, we could make progress on the Middle East. He reported on some of his discussions with [Ariel] Sharon, and said he had been pretty tough with him. Sharon had said that if Iraq hit Israel, their response would 'escalate' which he took to mean go nuclear. Bush said he said to him 'You will not, you will not do that, it would be crazy.' He said he would keep them under control, adding 'A nuke on Baghdad, that could be pretty tricky.'"

I did. Even your quote does not support the initial contention. They did not threaten to nuke Iraq. They discussed the option of escalation with an ally as a defensive measure. In fact, Sharon did not even use the term nuke etc in the conversation.

 

[gryfin]

I did. Even your quote does not support the initial contention. They did not threaten to nuke Iraq. They discussed the option of escalation with an ally as a defensive measure. In fact, Sharon did not even use the term nuke etc in the conversation.

Gee, who's version should I trust? The people who were in the meeting or you?

 

[blackrock13]

May I suggest a tactic known as "reading the entire article."

"Campbell also relays another nuclear threat a year later when George Bush told Blair he feared that Ariel Sharon, the former Israeli prime minister, was planning to launch a nuclear attack against Iraq. In an account of a conversation with Bush at a Nato summit in Prague in November 2002, as diplomatic pressure intensified on Saddam Hussein, Campbell writes: "[George Bush] felt that if we got rid of Saddam, we could make progress on the Middle East. He reported on some of his discussions with [Ariel] Sharon, and said he had been pretty tough with him. Sharon had said that if Iraq hit Israel, their response would 'escalate' which he took to mean go nuclear. Bush said he said to him 'You will not, you will not do that, it would be crazy.' He (Sharon) said he would keep them under control, adding 'A nuke on Baghdad, that could be pretty tricky.'"

Gee, who's version should I trust? The people who were in the meeting or you?

Trust has little to do with it, but understanding plan english. Same olde Gryf'. Got your visitors visa renewed again?

 

[rld]

Gee, who's version should I trust? The people who were in the meeting or you?

No one in the meeting said the Sharon said that he would nuke anyone.

Apparently George Bush thought escalate meant nukes.

Do you stake your opinion on George Bush interpretations? Is he that rock solid for you?

 

[gryfin]

Trust has little to do with it, but understanding plan english. Same olde Gryf'.

Well, we have a plain English recollection by a direct participant that the threat was nuclear. This only serves to underscore the need to have direct inspections of any nuclear program underway in Israel. It's clear from this that they do not have the wisdom or judgement to hold such capabilities.

 

[blackrock13]

Well, we have a plain English recollection by a direct participant that the threat was nuclear. This only serves to underscore the need to have direct inspections of any nuclear program underway in Israel. It's clear from this that they do not have the wisdom or judgement to hold such capabilities.

Yes he feared anuclear thereat but was given further information to satiate that fear. Sharon said he would keep them under control as a nuke would be a tricky thing to handle. That doesn't sound like a threat from the leader.

 

[gryfin]

No one in the meeting said the Sharon said that he would nuke anyone.

Apparently George Bush thought escalate meant nukes.

Do you stake your opinion on George Bush interpretations? Is he that rock solid for you?

Over Israel's favorite vegetable, Ariel Sharon? Of course. Who wouldn't?

Unless you've got some evidence to show that he lied, you don't really have anything to stand on.

 

[gryfin]

Yes he feared anuclear thereat but was given further information to satiate that fear. Sharon said he would keep them under control as a nuke would be a tricky thing to handle. That doesn't sound like a threat from the leader.

Yes, after he was spanked by Bush. But, the fact that Sharon used the "nuke" only serves to prove the accuracy of Bush.

 

[rld]

Well, we have a plain English recollection by a direct participant that the threat was nuclear. This only serves to underscore the need to have direct inspections of any nuclear program underway in Israel. It's clear from this that they do not have the wisdom or judgement to hold such capabilities.

The plain english recollection was the use of the word "escalate".

As I said, Bush interpreted it to mean "nuclear". Do you stand by Bush interpretations? He is an authoritative source for you?

Or did you not even read your own quote?

You can whine until the cows come home, but it remains a whine. Israel is not a party to the NPT, Iran signed it and additional protocols which it immediately chose to break.

Israel, has never publically threatened genocide, or even threatened to use nukes. They, so far, have shown great restraint in dealing with their neighbours.

Iran is already suffering consequences for their gamesmanship, many common Iranians are suffering for the lawlessness of their government. By taking your unrealistic positions supporting Iran, you are not even supporting the people there, you are supporting a tyrannical undemocratic lawless government. Well done.

 

[gryfin]

The plain english recollection was the use of the word "escalate".

As I said, Bush interpreted it to mean "nuclear". Do you stand by Bush interpretations? He is an authoritative source for you?

Or did you not even read your own quote?

What's your evidence to discount the observation of a direct participant?

And please take off your bias blinders, we both know Sharon used the word "nuke" in the conversation. It's there in black and white.

 

[blackrock13]

What's your evidence to discount the observation of a direct participant?

And please take of your bias blinders, we both know Sharon used the word "nuke" in the conversation. It's there in black and white.

You are still the same idiot, but welcome back. Things were getting dull in P&IA forum

 

[groggy]

The relevant quote is:
Sharon had said that if Iraq hit Israel, their response would 'escalate' which he took to mean go nuclear.

If both parties speak in using code words, and both parties accept the same usage then you have to understand that 'escalate' meant nuclear. If it didn't Sharon would have corrected himself to Bush.

The gist of this means that the only country that is a danger for nuclear war right now is Israel, not Iran, which is understood not to have the bomb or to be building one by all parties.

 

[rld]

The relevant quote is:
Sharon had said that if Iraq hit Israel, their response would 'escalate' which he took to mean go nuclear.

If both parties speak in using code words, and both parties accept the same usage then you have to understand that 'escalate' meant nuclear. If it didn't Sharon would have corrected himself to Bush.

The gist of this means that the only country that is a danger for nuclear war right now is Israel, not Iran, which is understood not to have the bomb or to be building one by all parties.

Now that is what I call a stretch. Now you want the world to set foreign policy based on your interpretations of supposed code words and the interpretation of George Bush of the word escalation.

No wonder your worldview is not accepted by anyone, anywhere in power in a democracy.

 

[gryfin]

In fact, Sharon did not even use the term nuke etc in the conversation.

We know that's not true, don't we. Stop the tap dance and grow a pair.

 

[rld]

We know that's not true, don't we. Stop the tap dance and grow a pair.

How about you learn to read. Sharon used the term escalate, which apparently Bush thought meant nukes.

I guess you are just a huge Bush fan.

 

[gryfin]

How about you learn to read. Sharon used the term escalate, which apparently Bush thought meant nukes.

I guess you are just a huge Bush fan.

Really? I see Sharon responding in this series of sentences.

"Sharon had said that if Iraq hit Israel, their response would 'escalate' which he took to mean go nuclear. Bush said he said to him 'You will not, you will not do that, it would be crazy.' He said he would keep them under control, adding 'A nuke on Baghdad, that could be pretty tricky.'"