Iran Talks fail again

[rld]

No, it's not better. There is no quote of the speaker saying "Israel". That's the reporters addition to the quote. In fact, the speaker says this:

"Speaking at a Tehran conference, Larijani was cited by Iran's Press TV as saying that "the time has come for the disappearance of the West and the Zionist regime - which are two dark spots in the present era - from the face of the universe."

“The U.S. and the Zionist regime are the prime sources of tyranny and gloom in the current age. The Muslim world is fed up with the injustice and abuse by these governments,” Larijani added."

As you can see, it's the ideology - not the country.

So when he refers to governments he is not talking about countries? You are a laugh a minute. Thank god there are actually some intelligent people in Iran...

 

[rld]

I can't help myself. Now Iran is suggesting the world drug problem is part of a zionist conspiracy:

On talk shows and on Persian language web sites, “the Iranian regime’s” obsession with Israel is often ridiculed and condemned by the “real Iran.” The web sites had another opportunity this past week when Iran’s Vice President shocked an audience of international diplomats at a mundane conference on global drug addiction by blaming the entire phenomenon on “Zionists” and the Talmud. He said that “you cannot find a single addict among the Zionists,” asserting that “they” have a grand plot to addict the world to drugs because “they” believe themselves to be “a master race” that views others as their slaves.

 

[groggy]

Unfortunately we live in a world where the term Zionist gets thrown around because it's more " politically correct" then saying Jew. People use Zionist way to much with out having any idea of it's meaning because
They usee the word to hide their prejudice. When Iranian officials say Zionist Regime they mean Israel and all Jews. When Israel says Iran is a threat they mean Iran. Not Muslims world wide.

No they don't.
Zionists instead try to use the term Zionism in a pretense for speaking for all Jews, when in fact it represents only the present hardline government.
As a 2010 poll of Jews found:

Seventy-eight percent are in favor of achieving peace through a two-state solution; 74 percent are against expanding the settlements in the West Bank; and 67 percent are in favor of trading land for peace.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/anshel-pfeffer-poll-u-k-jews-support-israel-but-want-hamas-talks-1.306292

That comes from a poll of 4,000 Jews who call themselves Zionists. The present government represents Jews as much as Harper does Canadians, and just as Harper is increasing hatred towards Canadians and Canadian policies worldwide, the present Israeli government is doing the same. Would the government represent the will of all of Israel, and respect human rights for all, I'm sure that international pressure would lessen.

Zionism is a policy, not a people.

 

[rld]

No they don't.
Zionists instead try to use the term Zionism in a pretense for speaking for all Jews, when in fact it represents only the present hardline government.
As a 2010 poll of Jews found:

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/anshel-pfeffer-poll-u-k-jews-support-israel-but-want-hamas-talks-1.306292

That comes from a poll of 4,000 Jews who call themselves Zionists. The present government represents Jews as much as Harper does Canadians, and just as Harper is increasing hatred towards Canadians and Canadian policies worldwide, the present Israeli government is doing the same. Would the government represent the will of all of Israel, and respect human rights for all, I'm sure that international pressure would lessen.

Zionism is a policy, not a people.

But when people talk about destroying nations and governments, they are not talking about policy. When they arm terrorists real people die.

Play the word games all you like. You cannot decouple Israel from her western allies, nor can you hide the crimes of Iran.

 

[groggy]

But when people talk about destroying nations and governments, they are not talking about policy. When they arm terrorists real people die.

Play the word games all you like. You cannot decouple Israel from her western allies, nor can you hide the crimes of Iran.

Iran and Israel are both guilty of crimes, different crimes, but crimes.
I'm quite ok with calling out both for crimes, are you?
Or do you only accept criticism against Iran?

 

[rld]

Iran and Israel are both guilty of crimes, different crimes, but crimes.
I'm quite ok with calling out both for crimes, are you?
Or do you only accept criticism against Iran?

i must have missed your posts criticizing Iran.

I think you should criticize anybody you want, but since you have done so over a long period, in a biased, inaccurate and downright dishonest way, I don't think you have a shred of credibility left.

Do I think Israel does things wrong absolutely. Do I think Iran, and the forces of muslim extremism arrayed and aligned against Israel are ten times worse. You bet.

 

[seth gecko]

Back to tha actual discussions between Iran & the P6...............some details have come forward from the Moscow talks and the recent technical talks:

http://backchannel.al-monitor.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/IranNuclearTalks.pdf

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Midd...-emerge-on-Iran-s-priorities-in-nuclear-talks

 

[groggy]

Back to tha actual discussions between Iran & the P6...............some details have come forward from the Moscow talks and the recent technical talks:

http://backchannel.al-monitor.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/IranNuclearTalks.pdf

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Midd...-emerge-on-Iran-s-priorities-in-nuclear-talks

Here's a good summary of what Iran is asking:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/07/06/249652/iran-p51-expert-level-talks-in-istanbul/

And this seems like a fair assessment of the process:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/NG07Ak03.html

 

[msog87]

why the fuck should iran even talk to these people? if the u.s. and israel, the two most aggressive countries in the world, and pakistan, north korea the two most unstable countries in the world can have nukes then so can iran

 

[basketcase]

No they don't.
Zionists instead try to use the term Zionism in a pretense for speaking for all Jews, when in fact it represents only the present hardline government.
As a 2010 poll of Jews found:...

Zionism - The belief that the State of Israel has a right to exist.

There is nothing incompatible with Zionism and the belief in a two state solution as your poll clearly shows.

What your poll unintentionally shows is that most Zionists feel a Palestinian state should exist (despite your attempted demonization). I am sure that comparable polls among Palestinians would show the same thing?

 

[groggy]

Zionism - The belief that the State of Israel has a right to exist.

There is nothing incompatible with Zionism and the belief in a two state solution as your poll clearly shows.

What your poll unintentionally shows is that most Zionists feel a Palestinian state should exist (despite your attempted demonization). I am sure that comparable polls among Palestinians would show the same thing?

From the wiki page on zionism:
Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a form of nationalism of Jews and Jewish culture that supports a Jewish nation state in territory defined as the Land of Israel.

I have no problem with the state of Israel existing or not, I just dislike countries and governments built on a racist basis. Not to mention a distaste for the word 'nationalism' that I would have thought would put the hairs up on the back of most Jews, since we know what a group that used a shorter version of that word did.

 

[rld]

From the wiki page on zionism:
Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a form of nationalism of Jews and Jewish culture that supports a Jewish nation state in territory defined as the Land of Israel.

I have no problem with the state of Israel existing or not, I just dislike countries and governments built on a racist basis. Not to mention a distaste for the word 'nationalism' that I would have thought would put the hairs up on the back of most Jews, since we know what a group that used a shorter version of that word did.

I think you have it backwards. One of the compelling reasons Jews feel that they need their own state is the Holocaust, which Iran seems to want to deny ever happened.

I trust you believe the holocaust happened.

 

[basketcase]

From the wiki page on zionism:
Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a form of nationalism of Jews and Jewish culture that supports a Jewish nation state in territory defined as the Land of Israel.

I have no problem with the state of Israel existing or not, I just dislike countries and governments built on a racist basis. Not to mention a distaste for the word 'nationalism' that I would have thought would put the hairs up on the back of most Jews, since we know what a group that used a shorter version of that word did.

So I guess you also have a problem with Palestinian nationalism (yet you never seem to mention that).

 

[rld]

why the fuck should iran even talk to these people? if the u.s. and israel, the two most aggressive countries in the world, and pakistan, north korea the two most unstable countries in the world can have nukes then so can iran

You really don't understand very much do you? Iran signed an agreement not to have nukes. And an additional protocol on inspections.

I guess you feel Iranians should simply break their agreement because you want them to. Well thought out.

 

[basketcase]

Back to tha actual discussions between Iran & the P6...............some details have come forward from the Moscow talks and the recent technical talks:

http://backchannel.al-monitor.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/IranNuclearTalks.pdf

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Midd...-emerge-on-Iran-s-priorities-in-nuclear-talks

A couple quotes from the article.

This seems to sum up the Iranian side of negotiations.

"So far, we have not seen a willingness by the Iranians to do anything else than talk, write letters, and gesture," says a Western diplomat close to the talks. "There is a real sense among the P5+1 that we're going to have to see some action ... from the Iranians."

As for inconsistent views,

That point is made in Iran's official presentations. Stating that there is "no limitation" to IAEA access at Fordow, the documents add that "sustained threats" against Iran's nuclear program and the assassination of a number of its scientists make protection of sensitive facilities "necessary."

So some how there are no restrictions yet they need to restrict access. Sensible?

And now more reactors?

"Facing constant threats, we need a backup facility to safeguard our enrichment activities," Iran's document states. Iran further suggested that it has plans for "at least four other research reactors," and therefore needed a steady supply of 20 percent enriched uranium to make fuel for them.

So Iran currently has the capacity to make huge amounts of medical isotopes but they want to quadruple their output?

The reason not to worry according to Iran?

Underpinning the Iranian position, according to the PowerPoint presentation and document – a third, shorter PowerPoint about the legal implications of the fatwa by Iran's top religious authority

So we are basing world safety because the religious oligarchy that runs Iran says that they wont use them.


Overall it's a shame that international obligations are open to negotiation.