Sarkozy - DEFEATED!!!!

fuji

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Jan 31, 2005
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thats right, maybe you didnt know this but there was a credit boom in virtually every western nation. going back to the original point/argument, the euro hasnt benefitted germany look at europe now the euro has only been around for 12 years, it was a doomed currency from the start due to its unintended consequences. anyways, this new leader in france all he wants is for the ecb to print money and finance the french and other govts allowing them to temporarily keeo the debt party going, hes an idiot who wants inflation to destroy europe. austerity hurts at first, but in the long run you prosper
You might want to check the timeline again, and again, check Germany's major trading partners to see whether they all went deeply into debt.

It's also a head scratcher that you think you're entitled to post on economic topics, while fundamentally failing to understand why Europe's biggest exporter would benefit most from the removal of trade barriers.
 

Asterix

Sr. Member
Aug 6, 2002
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Perhaps it's not a bad time to have a socialist elected. When the cupboard is bare. Reminds one of Rae in Ontario. As with Quebec, there is something about the French that prevents them from paying their own way.
There is something about the French that wants to do the minimum necessary possible. If I had to make a list of countries that were willing to stick their nose to the grindstone to get themselves out of trouble, France would be near the bottom of the list. Of course, compared to Greece they're better. But who isn't.
 

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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There is something about the French that wants to do the minimum necessary possible. If I had to make a list of countries that were willing to stick their nose to the grindstone to get themselves out of trouble, France would be near the bottom of the list. Of course, compared to Greece they're better. But who isn't.
Really?

You do realize that French workers are actually the most productive workers in all of Europe? Just ever so slightly below the USA. And if you consider that they work in general less hours than Americans, they are even more productive really.

But hey, don't believe me.

But would you believe the Wallstreet Journal?

Linky:

http://online.wsj.com/ad/article/france-productivity
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
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LMAO... yes highly entertained. Martin was able to balance the books through cuts to the Provinces and revenue from Wilson's GST. Nothing you posted refutes that.
So you disagree with me and the Fraiser Institute right.

Har...

Perhaps you could post a link from a recognized think tank to back up YOUR arguement. (Pretty tough when I am quoting the FI though.)

What ever you do, don't throw out your red rubber nose and yellow shoes, you're going to need them tomorrow for work.
 

The Options Menu

Slightly Swollen Member
Sep 13, 2005
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GTA
Fucking around and pretending auterity will fix anything is just dragging the suffering around. My Dad had a bad business streak and had to default on his debt years ago, life moves on, but allowing yourself to be trapped under debt you can't handle isn't being realistic, its just putting off the decision your ultimately going to have to make anyway
In the case of any non-G20 nation, that is more true than not. Once you start dealing with G-20(ish) sized economies defaulting poses global risk. The entire European mess rests at the feet of the 'austerity hawks' who demanded the Greece pay it's debts. If the 'Euro powers' had either:
a) Said, 'Greece lied about their finances' and gave them the boot from the common currency off the top. (To default in the woods alone.)
or
b) Said, 'Even though Greece lied, all debt holders are taking a big haircut off the top, and Greece has to stop cooking the books' while quietly having the backs of big debt holders.

This would be done.

Instead we've had 'austerity haws' pushing governments and warning of 'bond vigilantes' and speculators, and populations pushing governments right back. This has created the very situation that the 'austerity hawks' had warned of...
 

nottyboi

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May 14, 2008
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The new reality is that the banking system is now the means of wealth redistribution. Govts borrow $$, the banks buy the bonds, they deposit it with the bank as collateral for freshly printed money, and the value of the currency degrades slowly.. Inflation is held in check as long as this is gradually brought under control. Saying 100% GDP or 110% GDP is too much is all nonsense. All these are psychological barriers. Austerity is a knee jerk reaction and unfortunately it seems in a democracy, change can only occur in a crisis, manufactured or real. But no one really knows how much debt is too much. Singapore has over 110% debt to GDP and everyone says Singapore is a model of responsibility.. why is that?
 

Asterix

Sr. Member
Aug 6, 2002
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Really?

You do realize that French workers are actually the most productive workers in all of Europe? Just ever so slightly below the USA. And if you consider that they work in general less hours than Americans, they are even more productive really.

But hey, don't believe me.

But would you believe the Wallstreet Journal?

Linky:

http://online.wsj.com/ad/article/france-productivity
They work alot less hours. A month to five weeks off on vacation. Good for them. Plus until recently they expected to retire at 60, now 62, which they fought tooth and nail over. It isn't sustainable, but as I said they're still better off than Greece, if that's anything to brag about.
 

msog87

Banned
Dec 11, 2011
2,070
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As previously stated, I'll give Hollande the bennefit of the doubt on this one.

Frankly, Sarkozy and his party have been in power for 17 years in France. It's hard to blame the last guy for the shape France is in, when YOU are the last guy.

If you look at guys like Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II, Cameron in the UK, and Mulroney, and Harper, and other conservatives - they were all big time spenders. To make matters worse, they cut taxes to their rich buddies, then borrrowed to finance the tax cut.

The only fiscally responsible conservative I can think of was Margaret Thatcher. She was alright.
yeah thats a good point which people forget these days, mainstream conservatives are just as bad as liberals. sarkozy wasnt a real conservative, france's crisis got out of control under his watch. look at bush ( mind you obama is outspending him huge), stephen harpers govt are also big spenders contrary to conventional wisdom.
 

The Options Menu

Slightly Swollen Member
Sep 13, 2005
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yeah thats a good point which people forget these days, mainstream conservatives are just as bad as liberals.
To be blunt, they're worse. They are consistently worse than both liberal or social democratic alternatives. This has been shown time and again with actual numbers that you can google at your leisure. Particularly in the Anglo world. Conservative budgets are deliberately designed to be worse. The conservatives who aren't Kool-aid drinkers must know full well that Conservative parties deliberately build structural deficits to force cuts, privatizations, and to tie the next guys' hands. This is governing in bad faith, but there is 30 years of evidence to back it up. It's either that, or they are simply the least competent economic managers possible. One or the other.

If you combine that with an generally incompetent, warmongering, boob like Bush then you pretty much get what you got.
 

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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To be blunt, they're worse. They are consistently worse than both liberal or social democratic alternatives. This has been shown time and again with actual numbers that you can google at your leisure. Particularly in the Anglo world. Conservative budgets are deliberately designed to be worse. The conservatives who aren't Kool-aid drinkers must know full well that Conservative parties deliberately build structural deficits to force cuts, privatizations, and to tie the next guys' hands. This is governing in bad faith, but there is 30 years of evidence to back it up. It's either that, or they are simply the least competent economic managers possible. One or the other.

If you combine that with an generally incompetent, warmongering, boob like Bush then you pretty much get what you got.
I can't remember which gov't it was - I believe it was the party that introduced government run health care in Saskatchewan (Tommy Douglas??) - they always managed to balance the books.
 

groggy

Banned
Mar 21, 2011
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To be blunt, they're worse. They are consistently worse than both liberal or social democratic alternatives. This has been shown time and again with actual numbers that you can google at your leisure. Particularly in the Anglo world. Conservative budgets are deliberately designed to be worse. The conservatives who aren't Kool-aid drinkers must know full well that Conservative parties deliberately build structural deficits to force cuts, privatizations, and to tie the next guys' hands. This is governing in bad faith, but there is 30 years of evidence to back it up. It's either that, or they are simply the least competent economic managers possible. One or the other.

If you combine that with an generally incompetent, warmongering, boob like Bush then you pretty much get what you got.
well put.
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
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Hooterville
www.scubadiving.com
Really?

You do realize that French workers are actually the most productive workers in all of Europe? Just ever so slightly below the USA. And if you consider that they work in general less hours than Americans, they are even more productive really.

But hey, don't believe me.

But would you believe the Wallstreet Journal?

Linky:

http://online.wsj.com/ad/article/france-productivity
Lol

Did you miss the reference to hourly productivity?
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
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The French are not slouches. They lead the world in aviation, ship building, trains, high tech. They are highly productive. If they can do all that and work less - good for them.
 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
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Ghawar
The French was/is a very clever and resourceful people. Their
contribution to the advancement of civilization in literature, science
and music was nearly unequaled. The amazing thing is the French
is the best in the appreciation of all the good things in life.

Had Napoleon not made the blunder of invading Russia France
might have remained the dominant power to this day in Europe.
 

msog87

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Dec 11, 2011
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I can't remember which gov't it was - I believe it was the party that introduced government run health care in Saskatchewan (Tommy Douglas??) - they always managed to balance the books.
lol tommy douglas destroyed our healthcare
 

blackrock13

Banned
Jun 6, 2009
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lol tommy douglas destroyed our healthcare
How so? Not that I'm expecting an answer from you.

Being in you mid 20's, you don't remember a time when people had to make a choice in Canada between paying rent or going to a doctor or buying food or going to the hospital. There are members on TERB who do and it's not a nice thing to have to decide.
 

FAST

Banned
Mar 12, 2004
10,069
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In the day

How so? Not that I'm expecting an answer from you.

Being in you mid 20's, you don't remember a time when people had to make a choice in Canada between paying rent or going to a doctor or buying food or going to the hospital. There are members on TERB who do and it's not a nice thing to have to decide.
That was also the time when doctors did not belong to a union, and ONLY charged what a person was capable of paying or nothing at all.

FAST
 

rld

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Oct 12, 2010
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That was also the time when doctors did not belong to a union, and ONLY charged what a person was capable of paying or nothing at all.

FAST
I think you should stick to watching reruns of "To Kill a Mockingbird" if you think docs ONLY charged what people could afford or nothing at all.
 

blackrock13

Banned
Jun 6, 2009
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That was also the time when doctors did not belong to a union, and ONLY charged what a person was capable of paying or nothing at all.

FAST
Glad you think so. They may have done that for basic medicine, but the major illnesses and injuries caused real grief. Your so called doctors union is being fucked by the Liberals in Ontario just like before. Your doctors in the recent past were told by bureaucrats that they can only see and treat so many patients a year, even though they are one of the best in their fields or are in areas where they are the only one who does what they do and saw many more as a result. Now they are being told what they can charge, regardless of cost.

Apparently MSOG87 doesn't know how Tommy Douglas ruined the health care system OR has gone off in his corner to actually learn something.
 
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Toronto Escorts