Sarkozy - DEFEATED!!!!

[FAST]

Bill Gates....the middle man

That's a myth that the wealthy create jobs. Market demand creates jobs and it is primary the middle class that generates demand. The wealthy are just middle men.

Market demand may great jobs, but FIRST you have to create companies that make the product to create the jobs.

I don't see the loony left doing that, well except in some socialist south American countries that steal companies.

Glad to help, FAST

 

[fuji]

Market demand may great jobs, but FIRST you have to create companies that make the product to create the jobs.

I don't see the loony left doing that, well except in some socialist south American countries that steal companies.

Glad to help, FAST

Companies tend to be created by the middle class who get rich AFTER having the successful idea. They tend to be funded by the middle class as well, via savings invested through mutual funds and pensions.

The rich contribute very little. Wealth is a reward of capitalism, not a requirement. The prospect of becoming rich encourages the middle class to take risks and try new ideas. That's a crucial mechanism of a capitalist economy but don't feed me bullshit that the rich do any other useful thing, other than illustrating what the rewards are.

Once people are wealthy they are more of a drag on society than anything else, redirecting resources into economically dubious follies like a $100k wrist watch.

 

[wigglee]

screw the 1%....it is time.

 

[Don]

back in the 1950s in the U.S.A the wealthy pay over 70-90% tax rates and nobody was outsourcing jobs.

HELLO?? Because there was NOWHERE to outsource them to!! India and China didn't vastly ramp up their educational system and infrastructure until much later. And well regarding China, you could not even do business with them back then. And Mexico was not set up either at the time either. South Korea and Taiwan (which would become big manufacturers in the later years) were still recovering from WWII, Korean War, Communist Revolution...

 

[Asterix]

It sounds harse, but it seems that some of the countries in Europe are hellbent on dragging the rest of the world down with them.

 

[FAST]

Bill Gates is a drag on society

Companies tend to be created by the middle class who get rich AFTER having the successful idea. They tend to be funded by the middle class as well, via savings invested through mutual funds and pensions.

The rich contribute very little. Wealth is a reward of capitalism, not a requirement. The prospect of becoming rich encourages the middle class to take risks and try new ideas. That's a crucial mechanism of a capitalist economy but don't feed me bullshit that the rich do any other useful thing, other than illustrating what the rewards are.

Once people are wealthy they are more of a drag on society than anything else, redirecting resources into economically dubious follies like a $100k wrist watch.

Damn BILL GATES.

Now I wish I didn't make any money on my investments.

FAST

 

[omegaphallic]

Yes, but the person who ran out on the check in this situation is doing so in front of everyone on the planet. Good luck in getting service in another restaurant again.

Greece may well be able to pull itself out of its current financial crisis. But it's still going to hurt. A LOT. Since Greece put itself in this position, there was no solution that didn't include Greece getting Greek. By not staying with austerity, Greece is going to go through a whole lot of pain and is going to come out of this unable to borrow cash from anyone for a long, long, long time. Personally, I'd go for more pain and getting properly on my feet at the end of the day, but that's obviously not what much of Europe has chosen. Fine. That's their choice. The rational voter has always been a myth anyway.

That's the problem with running out on your bill from a restaurant like this. You're never able to get service at any other restaurant, so you'll go hungry at times in the future. The restaurant loses money. The restaurant's other ("good") customers end up having to pay with increased bills over time. In the end, NOBODY WINS. EVERYBODY PAYS. Greece WILL pay for the money they're defaulting on: they're just going to pay for it for a longer time and in more subtle ways than are immediately obvious.

Don't believe it? Try declaring bankruptcy and then trying to get a loan. Or even renting a house. Do you have any idea how much more of a security deposit I charge for someone with credit that bad before I'll rent to them? Does Greece really want to spend the next several decades being forced to put millions more up front in escrow (at worse if any interest) for international deals? Because that's what's going to happen. Which means Greek companies will have to charge more for goods and services than non-Greek companies, which means non-Greek companies will own an even larger share of the Greek economy than they already do. Which means more Greeks out of work, which means a larger Greek welfare state, which means a greater burden on the Greeks who do have work, etc., etc., etc.

That's the problem with the welfare state mentality. It isn't strictly economics (though how you pay for a state when half the population works for or receives welfare from the state is a difficult question). It's about the rot that happens when everybody defaults on their responsibilities and debts.

Which is fine. The Chinese will just end up owning more of Greece and France. Europe is doomed to be a continent of nothing but quaint tourist destinations anyway.

Countries aren't people, its doesn't work that,way with countries because countries can make thier own money. Greece needs to drop the Euro, bring back Drachma, nationalize its banks and then it can lend itself money.

Oh and btw way Iceland defaulted on thier debt awhile back, but they bounce back.

Fucking around and pretending auterity will fix anything is just dragging the suffering around. My Dad had a bad business streak and had to default on his debt years ago, life moves on, but allowing yourself to be trapped under debt you can't handle isn't being realistic, its just putting off the decision your ultimately going to have to make anyway

 

[james t kirk]

And the myth is repeated again. As John Turner said after Trudeau left office, "the cupboard was bare". Mulroney did the unpopular gruntwork to get the country moving again. Michael Wilson implemented the policies that allowed for a large portion of the deficit reduction, ie.; GST. Martin then balanced the books on the backs of the Provinces through cuts (that the Harper Conservatives for the most part have reversed). These cuts and Bob Rae's recklessness were reason Mike Harris had to take a hatchet to Ontario's bloated budgets. Again overlooked by the left.

But continue to make shit up. It is entertaining.

Sigh, if you knew your ass from your elbow, you'd be dangerous.

But hey, you don't have to listen to me, but would you believe the Fraiser Institute. (You can google them if you've never heard of them. It's ok, I understand.)

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/publicationdisplay.aspx?id=17269

Here's a good quote from my friends at the Fraiser Institute:

In 1995, the federal Liberal Party undertook deliberate and difficult steps—cutting nominal spending and public-sector employment—and were able to solve the deficit and debt problems of the country effectively. They avoided the mistakes of the preceding decade and a half and took real action. In a short time, their approach brought balanced budgets, declining debt, and decreasing interest costs.

Are you still entertained?

 

[FAST]

So simple

Countries aren't people, its doesn't work that,way with countries because countries can make thier own money.

Would somebody please go and tell all these countries like Greece, ........don't worry be happy, ......... just print money, problem solved, and then go back to spending money you don't have.

Its OK, …… nobody will tell.

FAST

 

[james t kirk]

As previously stated, I'll give Hollande the bennefit of the doubt on this one.

Frankly, Sarkozy and his party have been in power for 17 years in France. It's hard to blame the last guy for the shape France is in, when YOU are the last guy.

If you look at guys like Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II, Cameron in the UK, and Mulroney, and Harper, and other conservatives - they were all big time spenders. To make matters worse, they cut taxes to their rich buddies, then borrrowed to finance the tax cut.

The only fiscally responsible conservative I can think of was Margaret Thatcher. She was alright.

 

[omegaphallic]

Yes, but the person who ran out on the check in this situation is doing so in front of everyone on the planet. Good luck in getting service in another restaurant again.

Greece may well be able to pull itself out of its current financial crisis. But it's still going to hurt. A LOT. Since Greece put itself in this position, there was no solution that didn't include Greece getting Greek. By not staying with austerity, Greece is going to go through a whole lot of pain and is going to come out of this unable to borrow cash from anyone for a long, long, long time. Personally, I'd go for more pain and getting properly on my feet at the end of the day, but that's obviously not what much of Europe has chosen. Fine. That's their choice. The rational voter has always been a myth anyway.

That's the problem with running out on your bill from a restaurant like this. You're never able to get service at any other restaurant, so you'll go hungry at times in the future. The restaurant loses money. The restaurant's other ("good") customers end up having to pay with increased bills over time. In the end, NOBODY WINS. EVERYBODY PAYS. Greece WILL pay for the money they're defaulting on: they're just going to pay for it for a longer time and in more subtle ways than are immediately obvious.

Don't believe it? Try declaring bankruptcy and then trying to get a loan. Or even renting a house. Do you have any idea how much more of a security deposit I charge for someone with credit that bad before I'll rent to them? Does Greece really want to spend the next several decades being forced to put millions more up front in escrow (at worse if any interest) for international deals? Because that's what's going to happen. Which means Greek companies will have to charge more for goods and services than non-Greek companies, which means non-Greek companies will own an even larger share of the Greek economy than they already do. Which means more Greeks out of work, which means a larger Greek welfare state, which means a greater burden on the Greeks who do have work, etc., etc., etc.

That's the problem with the welfare state mentality. It isn't strictly economics (though how you pay for a state when half the population works for or receives welfare from the state is a difficult question). It's about the rot that happens when everybody defaults on their responsibilities and debts.

Which is fine. The Chinese will just end up owning more of Greece and France. Europe is doomed to be a continent of nothing but quaint tourist destinations anyway.

Countries aren't people, its doesn't work that,way with countries because countries can make thier own money. Greece needs to drop the Euro, bring back Drachma, nationalize its banks and then it can lend itself money.

Oh and btw way Iceland defaulted on thier debt awhile back, but they bounce back.

Fucking around and pretending auterity will fix anything is just dragging the suffering around. My Dad had a bad business streak and had to default on his debt years ago, life moves on, but allowing yourself to be trapped under debt you can't handle isn't being realistic, its just putting off the decision your ultimately going to have to make anyway

 

[Aardvark154]

Oh and btw way Iceland defaulted on thier debt awhile back, but they bounce back.

So that's what the U.S. should do, continue to party - screw the Chinese - the money will always come from somewhere. Can we quote you on this?

 

[msog87]

Your ignorance is on display again. You might want to check when the euro was adopted and which counties are Germany's largest trading partners.

I listed asia, america, and the EU. are you ignorant cuz im not. are you trying to tell me I missed germany's largest trading partners?

 

[fuji]

I listed asia, america, and the EU. are you ignorant cuz im not. are you trying to tell me I missed germany's largest trading partners?

Nope, you specifically said "other EU nations" and asserted Germany did well only because of a credit boom. Well, Germany was doing well with the Euro long before the credit boom, and its major trading partners are in far better fiscal shape than Greece of Portugal.

 

[oil&gas]

Countries aren't people, its doesn't work that,way with countries because countries can make thier own money. Greece needs to drop the Euro, bring back Drachma, nationalize its banks and then it can lend itself money.

Any government can raise debt or lend its own banks
in the currency they create. Weimar Germany even managed to
pay the war reparations. North Korea should just use won to pay
for imported food. Greece surely can drop the Euro and bring
back Drachma. Just don't expect it can continue to finance
government expenditure with a worthless currency.

Oh and btw way Iceland defaulted on thier debt awhile back, but they bounce back.

Iceland's financial crisis was a result of failure of its commercial
banks not uncontrolled government spending. Greece OTOH
would not have been able to sustain its deficit spending
without the bail out money it received, austerity or no austerity.

Fucking around and pretending auterity will fix anything is just dragging the suffering around. My Dad had a bad business streak and had to default on his debt years ago, life moves on, but allowing yourself to be trapped under debt you can't handle isn't being realistic, its just putting off the decision your ultimately going to have to make anyway

Your dad could just close his business at the time of default, government
cannot. Without the money needed to support the many services and welfare
systems already built in the society could sink into chaos.

 

[groggy]

The only fiscally responsible conservative I can think of was Margaret Thatcher. She was alright.

And look how well that's worked out for England.
Thatcher was lucky to be able to ride the North Sea oil money while it was there to fund her tax cuts. Now that its almost gone they are screwed.

 

[Aardvark154]

Thatcher was lucky to be able to ride the North Sea oil money while it was there to fund her tax cuts. Now that its almost gone they are screwed.

Which of course you believe had nothing at all to do with wild spending by the administrations of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown?

 

[train]

Perhaps it's not a bad time to have a socialist elected. When the cupboard is bare. Reminds one of Rae in Ontario. As with Quebec, there is something about the French that prevents them from paying their own way.

 

[dirk076]

Sigh, if you knew your ass from your elbow, you'd be dangerous.

But hey, you don't have to listen to me, but would you believe the Fraiser Institute. (You can google them if you've never heard of them. It's ok, I understand.)

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/publicationdisplay.aspx?id=17269

Here's a good quote from my friends at the Fraiser Institute:

In 1995, the federal Liberal Party undertook deliberate and difficult steps—cutting nominal spending and public-sector employment—and were able to solve the deficit and debt problems of the country effectively. They avoided the mistakes of the preceding decade and a half and took real action. In a short time, their approach brought balanced budgets, declining debt, and decreasing interest costs.

Are you still entertained?

LMAO... yes highly entertained. Martin was able to balance the books through cuts to the Provinces and revenue from Wilson's GST. Nothing you posted refutes that.

 

[msog87]

Nope, you specifically said "other EU nations" and asserted Germany did well only because of a credit boom. Well, Germany was doing well with the Euro long before the credit boom, and its major trading partners are in far better fiscal shape than Greece of Portugal.

thats right, maybe you didnt know this but there was a credit boom in virtually every western nation. going back to the original point/argument, the euro hasnt benefitted germany look at europe now the euro has only been around for 12 years, it was a doomed currency from the start due to its unintended consequences. anyways, this new leader in france all he wants is for the ecb to print money and finance the french and other govts allowing them to temporarily keeo the debt party going, hes an idiot who wants inflation to destroy europe. austerity hurts at first, but in the long run you prosper