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Toronto Star: Video shows Montreal taxi running over man during fight/dispute.

alexmst

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It says "serious but non-life-threatening injuries". What does that mean? Lost both legs? Blinded?
Here is a cut and paste from a discussion I read on what the terms mean:

After checking with a couple of doctors, one on each coast to account for any variation in local definitions, I can state with some certainty that most of these terms don't mean a whole heck of a lot and vary depending on the hospital and the doctor's definition.

"Critical" does seem to mean something fairly standard. As one doc told me, critical condition, by definition, requires care in a critical care or intensive care unit. In general, it's the worst condition (other than, obviously, DOA) a patient can be in, with a high risk of death within the next 24 hours.

Being upgraded to "serious" means there is a lower likelihood of death within 24 hours, but the patient still requires close observation. So, you're definitely thought to be better off in "serious" condition than in "critical" condition, but you're not ready to go run a marathon, or for that matter shuffle to the bathroom.

Another term you've probably heard is "stable," as in, "the patient is in serious but stable condition." This means there are no major active medical issues and the patient's basic vital functions are not fluctuating or in need of support. So they are seriously injured, but not expected to die from those injuries.

There are a host of other terms (you may have heard "good" and "satisfactory" as well, for example), but these are more or less judgment calls without clear definitions. They're basically an official-sounding way to say, "don't worry, he or she will be fine."

Terms like critical, stable, serious, etc., are mostly for the benefit of the media. Most doctors don't use these words when talking with the families of their patients.
 

buttercup

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Feb 28, 2005
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Here is a cut and paste from a discussion I read on what the terms mean:
After checking with a couple of doctors, one on each coast to account for any variation in local definitions, I can state with some certainty that most of these terms don't mean a whole heck of a lot and vary depending on the hospital and the doctor's definition.
"Critical" does seem to mean something fairly standard. As one doc told me, critical condition, by definition, requires care in a critical care or intensive care unit. In general, it's the worst condition (other than, obviously, DOA) a patient can be in, with a high risk of death within the next 24 hours.
Being upgraded to "serious" means there is a lower likelihood of death within 24 hours, but the patient still requires close observation. So, you're definitely thought to be better off in "serious" condition than in "critical" condition, but you're not ready to go run a marathon, or for that matter shuffle to the bathroom.
Another term you've probably heard is "stable," as in, "the patient is in serious but stable condition." This means there are no major active medical issues and the patient's basic vital functions are not fluctuating or in need of support. So they are seriously injured, but not expected to die from those injuries.
There are a host of other terms (you may have heard "good" and "satisfactory" as well, for example), but these are more or less judgment calls without clear definitions. They're basically an official-sounding way to say, "don't worry, he or she will be fine."
Terms like critical, stable, serious, etc., are mostly for the benefit of the media
. Most doctors don't use these words when talking with the families of their patients.

Interesting.

So, how DO they describe "blinded", or "lost both legs"?

Also, when you read about a terrorist bomb exploding in a crowded market, and they report, "15 dead, 75 injured, 30 seriously," what picture should that actually conjure up in our imaginations?
 

afterhours

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Jul 14, 2009
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I'd let the cabbie walk. Jump all over my car threatening me and I'll run your ass over too.
yeah, you don't mess with a man's car.
 

fuji

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yeah, you don't mess with a man's car.
You also don't commit assault with a weapon, or murder, just because somebody messed with your car. The punks in that video CLEARLY broke the law and deserved to be charged for that, but they did NOT deserve to run over.
 

afterhours

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You also don't commit assault with a weapon, or murder, just because somebody messed with your car. The punks in that video CLEARLY broke the law and deserved to be charged for that, but they did NOT deserve to run over.
the cabby had no less reason to be in fear for his life than Bryant
I say if Bryant walked, the cabby should walk (assuming he does not give a statement "I did it on purpose")
 

fuji

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the cabby had no less reason to be in fear for his life than Bryant
I say if Bryant walked, the cabby should walk (assuming he does not give a statement "I did it on purpose")
I've watched both videos now and that's just not clear to me. He seemed to have had many opportunities to get out of there without hurting anyone. We also need to know how it is that his cab wound up smashed into a telephone pole, was that a previous attempt to ram the guys with his car? In those final moments it does look like he was under attack, but he had other ways to go, he could have put the car in reverse for example, moreover, prior to that moment it looks like the cab driver himself may have been the instigator.

All I'm going to say is this is not going to be an easy one for the courts to sort out. I can see the verdict going either way.
 

LKD

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Aug 6, 2006
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fuck the punks... run them over! Enough of that the didn't deserve that shit or no one deserves that. I have a hard time believing a lone driver would try to start shit with a bunch of hooligans.
 

LKD

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I've watched both videos now and that's just not clear to me. He seemed to have had many opportunities to get out of there without hurting anyone. We also need to know how it is that his cab wound up smashed into a telephone pole, was that a previous attempt to ram the guys with his car? In those final moments it does look like he was under attack, but he had other ways to go, he could have put the car in reverse for example, moreover, prior to that moment it looks like the cab driver himself may have been the instigator.

All I'm going to say is this is not going to be an easy one for the courts to sort out. I can see the verdict going either way.
screw that... how is a person sitting in a car in the middle of a road the instigator? and why is it his responsibility to drive off from there quickly before things escalate and before anyone got hurt? Everyone has the right to be whenever and wherever they want so long the properties. Just because a bunch of thugs are standing or walking on a street doesn't require me to walk to the other side to avoid escalating things.
 

fuji

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fuck the punks... run them over! Enough of that the didn't deserve that shit or no one deserves that. I have a hard time believing a lone driver would try to start shit with a bunch of hooligans.
So how did the lone driver wind up smashing his car into a street light? We haven't seen that part, as it's prior to the video. We plainly don't have the whole story. Where the video starts there's already bits of his car lying on the ground and the front of it is smashed up. I have a hard time believing the punks caused him to drive into a pole. The question is how did it happen--did he try and ram them already before the video even started? Or was it more of the same, of him trying to get away from them?
 

blackrock13

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the cabby had no less reason to be in fear for his life than Bryant
I say if Bryant walked, the cabby should walk (assuming he does not give a statement "I did it on purpose")
Well except for the guy jumping on the taxis roof and the other guy trying to rip open the drivers door and the othe guys jumping in front of your cab and the fact that cab drivers get mugged or worse quite often, you're close.
 

LKD

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So how did the lone driver wind up smashing his care into a street light? We haven't seen that part, as it's prior to the video. We plainly don't have the whole story. Where the video starts there's already bits of his car lying on the ground and the front of it is smashed up. I have a hard time believing the punks caused him to drive into a pole. The question is how did it happen--did he try and ram them already before the video even started?
true.. we dont' know the whole story yet. It might have been a psycho taxi driver who decided to ram into people out of the blue and drove into a pole instead, or maybe he might have been trying to get away from the hooligans who tried approaching him which caused him to drive into the pole.
 

fuji

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true.. we dont' know the whole story yet. It might have been a psycho taxi driver who decided to ram into people out of the blue and drove into a pole instead, or maybe he might have been trying to get away from the hooligans who tried approaching him which caused him to drive into the pole.
Not out of the blue. The story we have is he kicked somebody out of his cab, they slammed the door, he gets upset they slammed the door, there is some sort of fight, at some point it involves the cab ramming into a streetlamp pole, and THEN the video starts. We need to know what happened there before judging who is in the wrong.
 

afterhours

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Well except for the guy jumping on the taxis roof and the other guy trying to rip open the drivers door and the othe guys jumping in front of your cab and the fact that cab drivers get mugged or worse quite often, you're close.
it's not "except", it's "a fortiori"
 

Ceiling Cat

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Feb 25, 2009
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A second video has surfaced from a street level POV. It looks favorable for the cab driver. In the video we can see that there were 11 acts of aggression done on the cab in less than 90 seconds. The cab driver is black, we do not know if he was taunted or spat on.We do know that there were 12 - 15 people coming at him from all directions, many threatening and many violent.

Video :

0:02 A man kicks the cab, strip of plastic was thrown at the cab.
0:50 Plastic strip is thrown at the cab again and hits the cab.
1:00 Man and woman approaches cab, woman is heard yelling ehh, ehh.
1:02 Man approaches cab and 2 impact sound are heard ( the cab was kicked )
1:07 Cab backs up, another impact sound is heard.
1:13 Cab drives into group of people and is kicked 3 times
1:18 Man climbs onto cabs roof.
1:24 Cab turns and drives over man.

Total elapsed time, less than 90 seconds

2:08 A voice could be heard saying, What is the number, the number. ( possibly a Parisian or Algerian accent.)

There were 11 acts of aggression done on the cab in less than 90 seconds.

I say the cab driver acted in self defense. It happened so quickly that he may have not seen the person when he turned his car to escape.
His lawyer said that when he asked his client to explain his actions, he said it was in self defense.


 

fuji

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So Ceiling Cat, what happened before the videos started? How did the cab wind up ramming into a street lamp?
 

LKD

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Aug 6, 2006
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A second video with the POV of street view has surfaced, it is in favor of the cab driver. You will have to look at the evidence in front of you and know that this takes place in less than 90 seconds. There were 11 acts of aggression done to the cab in that time with people coming towards him from all sides. One guy repeatedly kicks the cab, and another one jumps on the car and walks on the roof. The cab driver is black, we do not know if he was taunted and spat at.
yes, from that video it seems the driver was definitely harrassed.. I'm sure the video inside the taxi has recorded other details leading to this incident.
 

fuji

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yes, from that video it seems the driver was definitely harrassed.. I'm sure the video inside the taxi has recorded other details leading to this incident.
100% those punks should be charged for kicking the cab and jumping on it. There's NO justification for that. The only question is whether the cab driver is ALSO guilty. To me it's hard to tell just from these videos whether or not he is.
 

Ceiling Cat

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Feb 25, 2009
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So Ceiling Cat, what happened before the videos started? How did the cab wind up ramming into a street lamp?
The new video does not show the cab ramming the lamp post. Possibly the miscreants were in the car and interfered with the cab drivers operation of the vehicle.
 

fuji

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The new video does not show the cab ramming the lamp post. Possibly the miscreants were in the car and interfered with the cab drivers operation of the vehicle.
None of the videos show the cab ramming the lamp post. It happened before anybody started taking videos. That's the point... we need to know how that happened. "Possibly" doesn't cut it.
 
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