Andrew Prescott = Pierre Poutine?
- Thread starter groggy
- Start date
You obviously missed the news/announcement last week by the head of Elections Canada that Pierre Poutine made less than 2,000 phone calls and that in their opinion the election was not impacted.
Perhaps you should start looking at more credible sources for your information. Your current ones continue to make you look foolish.
For those of you that don't know Prescott was deputy campaign manager for an Alberta Conservative candidate and the Poutine calls were made to Guelph, Ontario.
The connection to Prescott through a company called RackNine was first reported in early March
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/03/02/robocalls-scandal-andrew-prescott-guelph_n_1316942.html
You might also have missed the fact that the Liberals also used negative robocalls in the Guelph riding
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/03/10/pol-guelph-liberal-calls.html
I think you can stop holding your breath and stamping your feet and move on to the jet scandal along with the rest of your cronies.
Oh and I guess you are okay with equipment still being delivered last week to the cancelled Oakville gas power generation plant?
Perhaps you should start looking at more credible sources for your information. Your current ones continue to make you look foolish.
For those of you that don't know Prescott was deputy campaign manager for an Alberta Conservative candidate and the Poutine calls were made to Guelph, Ontario.
The connection to Prescott through a company called RackNine was first reported in early March
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/03/02/robocalls-scandal-andrew-prescott-guelph_n_1316942.html
You might also have missed the fact that the Liberals also used negative robocalls in the Guelph riding
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/03/10/pol-guelph-liberal-calls.html
I think you can stop holding your breath and stamping your feet and move on to the jet scandal along with the rest of your cronies.
Oh and I guess you are okay with equipment still being delivered last week to the cancelled Oakville gas power generation plant?
Hi Train, wrong on all accounts.
Prescott accepted $1100 from the Guelph campaign, admitted he worked with Racknine, admits he's a 'cellphone expert' and was found by elections canada to not have reported expenses found with Racknine.
As for the liberal calls, that's just conservative spin at its most inept. If you check the details on the phone number they claim was used, its a number that the conservatives have admitted that they used to make calls giving wrong addresses for voting with (though they did apologize and say it was a mistake). So unless the liberals were so wily that they used a number that the conservatives were secretly using to make fake calls with, it really looks like the cons were just trying to spin in a really inept way, that they didn't even remember their own admissions.
It'll take a while, but it will come out.
Prescott accepted $1100 from the Guelph campaign, admitted he worked with Racknine, admits he's a 'cellphone expert' and was found by elections canada to not have reported expenses found with Racknine.
As for the liberal calls, that's just conservative spin at its most inept. If you check the details on the phone number they claim was used, its a number that the conservatives have admitted that they used to make calls giving wrong addresses for voting with (though they did apologize and say it was a mistake). So unless the liberals were so wily that they used a number that the conservatives were secretly using to make fake calls with, it really looks like the cons were just trying to spin in a really inept way, that they didn't even remember their own admissions.
It'll take a while, but it will come out.
An audio recording surfaced Friday showing the Conservative campaign in Guelph, Ont., wasn't the only one to use automated robocalls in the last federal election campaign: the Liberals also employed the technique.
Liberal MP Frank Valeriote has confirmed his campaign used an auto-dialed phone message to tell voters in the riding that the Conservative candidate, Marty Burke, opposed abortion. Valeriote said the call was recorded by a volunteer from his campaign who used a fake name because she feared retribution from anti-abortion activists.
"The race in Guelph is very close," the woman says in the message. "Vote strategically on Monday to protect our hard-earned rights from the Conservatives and Marty’s extreme views."The recording, provided by a Conservative supporter, features a woman who identifies herself as Laurie MacDonald, but doesn't say she's calling from Valeriote's campaign.
A spokesman for Prime Minister Stephen Harper said the Valeriote campaign calls were illegal because they are supposed to identify which party made them.
Valeriote said the call was issue-based and not about suppressing votes. He added he spoke to Elections Canada about the call and the agency confirmed it complied with election law.
On Saturday, a spokesman for Elections Canada wouldn't confirm whether the agency had spoken to Valeriote, but pointed to the laws on election advertising that say candidates or anyone acting on their behalf has to mention in the message that the ad is authorized by the campaign.
Automated calls, also known as robocalls or direct voice drop, are a commonly used campaign tool because they are an inexpensive way to let candidates reach a large number of people.
Elections Canada is currently investigating robocalls in Guelph that falsely claimed to be on behalf of Elections Canada and that tried to direct people to the wrong polling station. Both are against the law.
From;http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/03/10/pol-guelph-liberal-calls.html
It's interesting that Election Canada has not commented on the agency.
There's a big difference between the message on the Liberal call and telling voters their vot centre has changed. I'm surprised you can 't see that. Or maybe you do but don't want to let it known.
Wrong on all accounts eh?
Okay , which one of the following things that I said is untrue?
1)was Prescott not deputy campaign manager for an Albertan candidate?
2) Did I not say he was associated with RackNine?
3) Did the CBC not report the Liberal use of Robo calls ?
4) Did the head of elections Canada not say that the Election was not compromised.
Which of the above were wrong and please provide your source.
As far as your information: Well , my heavens , I think Prescott should be sentenced to 20 years at hard labour because he is a cell phone "expert" whatever the hell that is.
He accepted $1,100 from the Guelph campaign? What did he say it was for ? Surely even you aren't stupid enough to believe that someone can rig an entire election with a cell phone and $1,100 ? If that is the case how stupid does it make all you Dippers look for wandering in the political wilderness for 40 years until the last election.
I agree but the whole thing loses any real significance when we find out it was less than 2,000 calls and 800 complaints in a riding that was won by the Liberals by 6,000 votes. Some of the complaints may even be about the Liberal calls for all we know.
Even Bob Rae has relized this is a lost cause as far as scandals go and has moved on.
That's what I recommended groggy do on my first post in this thread.
I'm not up to date on that one but since we haven't actually bought any planes yet I'm assuming the damage has been halted by the oversight procedures which have exposed this. Tell me is the financial damage going to be anywhere near what the Oakville power plant will be? Funny how that gets no play here.
Do we know for sure how much financial damage was caused by the Oakville cancellation? I know they've had some expensive equipment delivered but I'm pretty sure they'll eventually use that stuff on the relocated power plant. And the lawsuit from one of the contractors will probably go away if the same contractor is given the same task for the relocated plant. I'm sure there's some damage but I haven't seen any final figures. It's too early for that.
When I said he worked for Guelph you said he was an Alberta conservative, implying he didn't work for Guelph. That's wrong.
CBC reported that liberals used robocalls, but the only fraudulent ones have been linked only to conservatives and only targeted non-conservative supporters.
The head of elections canada called it:
If its fraud, lets hope someone goes to jail.
You have misread and misunderstood the Chief Electoral Officer. What he actually said, repeatedly, was that if a single voter was misled by deliberate falsehood it was a matter of grave seriousness. Point being, the actual incident-count is mere numbers, far less of a concern than the attempt to subvert the election at all.
Your point is somewhat like excusing the mass murderer because he only killed a handful of people. Continuing the analogy, the guy who we appointed to think a bit more clearly than that, is rightly saying even a single attempted murder—or attempt to rig the vote—is something we must take extremely seriously. We have whole government departments and an entire correctional system to deal with crimes like attempted murder. Even if the attempts were botched.
Unfortunately, our Harper Government seems to share your view, "Whats a handful of bodies? It's not as if it was a genocide, after all. And we still won."
Yes he did say it was serious. Never said he didn't say that. He also said that it had no impact of the outcome of the election. Check it out. If you want me to explain the difference to you between the two statements let me know as you obviously didn't comprehend it the first time around. I had you pegged above groggy in comprehension ability. Obviously I was wrong.
Actually if you don't understand the difference it's going to make it seriously difficult to have an intelligent conversation of any complexity with you whatsoever in the future. Let's try this.....to continue on with your killing analogies which by some strange twist you seem to understand....... If an individual soldier gets killed its serious but in itself does not impact the outcome of the war.
Like most biased people you only hear what you want to hear and ignore the inconvenient facts.
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I looked, I couldn't find such a quote, please locate it.
And then note, that its quite probably wrong, here's a link to an report suggesting that there was a 3% decline in votes in ridings affected by voter suppression calls that could have changed the outcome of 5 ridings.
http://www.sfu.ca/economics/research/effects-of-robocalling.html
Note also that court challenges asking for 7 by-elections in close ridings affected have been laid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robocall_scandal#Legal_challenges
And finally, would you still support a government that won an election through fraud?
And finally, if the conservative majority is based on fr
What was your point when you made the above statement? The election fraud occurred regardless of whether it changed the outcome of the election or not. Your seem to be downplaying the severity of this illegal and undemocratic behaviour because it may not have changed the big picture. I could be wrong but I think Canadians are more concerned about the apparent possibility that some fairly high ranking members of our governing party are criminals who attempted to interfere with the integrity of our election. They clearly attempted to send Liberal supporters to non-existent polling stations. The fact that they probably failed to make much of a difference is absolutely beside the point.
I agree with your analysis and would add that if they get it away with it this time then next election it would increase dramatically
But why do you keep talking as if the only thing of importance is that the outcome of the election wasn't affected? Does right behaviour matter so little in your world? The trespasser or burglar who does no damage and leaves has done nothing wrong worth anyone being concerned about? Referees should only call penalties if the fault had some serious effect on the score? The underwear bomber should have been fined for causing a disturbance and then freed because he didn't bring down the plane? If this matter had been publicized before the vote and caused an anti-Conservative backlash that 'affected the outcome' and cost them the election, then it would be a matter of importance, according to you? What silliness.
My original analogy's still seems apt: There aren't supposed to be any wrongful deaths. Though no death at all occurred, even one attempted murder is a matter for all to be concerned about and for the authorities to take action. What we're watching is the government turning it's back as if nothing was amiss, and letting the lone Police Inspector with few resources carry their ball for them, hoping all the while he'll give up. I don't see you've offered anything credible to replace it.
But yes, since it's all you seem to care about: On the facts we have, it would appear the overall result of the election would not have been altered. Although some riding results—I believe five or six have been cited—might have been affected, that would matter only to the candidates who were cheated of their seats and to all who placed their faith and hopes in fairly choosing the best person to represent them. Not enough to worry about in the grand scheme of Conservative victory. Happy now?
But I still think your view is sorta like arguing a few thousand 9/11 deaths were unimportant since the terrorists' goal was to destroy the country, and it still stands, more firmly than before. Not a view I'd share, or respect.
You picked a very revealing analogy of your own for election cheating (I underlined it, lest you forgot): War. In which all is fair, as the saying goes, and in which soldiers' deaths by the thousand are part of the deal, and the only thing that matters is being victorious, because the war crimes, if any, are what the victors say they are. By your analogy the cheating's inherent in any election, and all that matters is how much, whether you win, and whether you get caught winning that way.
If that brutal expediency really is how you, and those you attempt to defend, see the democratic election process it goes a long way to explaining their moral bankruptcy. Your conscience can advise you on yours.
whether the cons' foul play made a difference or not, the very-likely fact that the cons played dirty (well we already know they played dirty re. campaign budget) should be enough to make all of us (regardless of our political leanings) stand up and take notice.
Why can't people seem to see clearly beyond their political affiliations when stuff is obviously f'd. I lose respect for people's arguments when they try to defend parties to the death when the party these people are defending obviously did wrong.
I remember adscam - i had friends who worked for the Liberals at that time. Many Liberal supporters walked away despite that issue being nothing compared to the list of Conservative bs that's occurred just in the past few months. Yet Conservatives will support their party till their last breath - despite how ridiculous it looks from the other side....
argh
I love this bullshit deflection, "the Liberals also used robo-calls". There is nothing wrong with robo-calling people. Well it's a little annoying, but it's generally legal and commonplace.
The problem is not that the Cons used robo-calls. The problem is that they used robo-calls to commit electoral fraud, by impersonating Elections Canada, and directing people to incorrect polling stations.
The problem is not that the Cons used robo-calls. The problem is that they used robo-calls to commit electoral fraud, by impersonating Elections Canada, and directing people to incorrect polling stations.
If illegal activity took place, the people involved should be prosecuted.
Whether or not the alleged crimes actually influenced the election results doesn't matter when it comes to prosecutions (although it may matter very much to Elections Canada).
Whether or not the alleged crimes actually influenced the election results doesn't matter when it comes to prosecutions (although it may matter very much to Elections Canada).
