Why do Americans consider Israel their closest ally?

[groggy]

Your arguments do not become true just because you call them true arguments Groggy. They actually have to be true. Yours are not, you cited laws that do NOT create discrimination against Arab Israeli cititizens, you were wrong, you are now lying, you are a propaganda clown and a troll.

Once again, the laws cited were shown to give preferential treatment of one race over others and as such were racist.
You even admitted it.
Have you no shame that you now deny this?
Shall I have to go back and link to the comment to make you cease from making the same debunked arguments again and again?


Israel is an apartheid state, built on ethnic cleansing and Jewish terrorism.

 

[basketcase]

I guess to grog, the modern definition of apartheid is Jews daring to live in 'Arab lands'.

 

[fuji]

Once again, the laws cited were shown to give preferential treatment of one race over others and as such were racist.

You are too stupid to realize that preferential immigration laws don't make Israel an "apartheid state". You have to show discrimination against one group of Israelis over another. You haven't.

 

[groggy]

You are too stupid to realize that preferential immigration laws don't make Israel an "apartheid state". You have to show discrimination against one group of Israelis over another. You haven't.

At least now you are admitting that the first example we used was a law that gave preferential treatment to Jews, making it racist.
There are 24 more racist laws, 8 bills coming in and a few other tribunals that have also weighed in.
As with the other threads, you lost this argument a long time ago and have provided nothing to back up your position.

Israel is an apartheid state, built on ethnic cleansing and Jewish terrorism.

 

[fuji]

The 2nd one on your list suffers from the same problem--it does not even apply to Israeli citizens and therefore cannot conceivably be discrimination against any of them.

Given that the first two on your list have been disasterous misrepresentations perhaps YOU should redo your list and identify which laws you think discriminate against Israeli Arab citizens, and explain how that discrimination reaches the level of a crime against humanity.

If you can't do that then quit this lying slander that Israel is an apartheid state.

 

[groggy]

Please refer to post 201.
The full list of laws is right there.
As with the other threads, you lost this argument a long time ago and have provided nothing to back up your position.

Israel is an apartheid state, built on ethnic cleansing and Jewish terrorism.

 

[rld]

Please refer to post 201.
The full list of laws is right there.
As with the other threads, you lost this argument a long time ago and have provided nothing to back up your position.

Israel is an apartheid state, built on ethnic cleansing and Jewish terrorism.

What is racist about the Absorption of Discharged Soldiers Acts?

Have you read them or are you just taking some other site's word for it?

 

[groggy]

Those two laws give 'compensation packages' (free tuition at university for a year, plus others) to those who live in 'national priority areas' (illegal settlements in the west bank where Palestinians are not allowed to live) to those who have served in the army (which Palestinian Israeli civilians are not allowed to join). The second is an amendment to the first law, which gave other preferential treatment to those having served in the military. These laws give preferential treatment to Jews over Palestinians, and as such are racist.

 

[fuji]

OK, so there's two more laws off your list: Stuff in the West Bank / Gaza plainly does not apply to Arab Israeli citizens.

Your "list" is rapidly shrinking, Groggy.

You have been wholly unable to demonstrate that ANY of these laws discriminate against any Israeli citizens, let alone amount to crimes against humanity, which is what is actually required to meet the definition of apartheid that you agreed we would use (the Statute of Rome).

 

[rld]

Those two laws give 'compensation packages' (free tuition at university for a year, plus others) to those who live in 'national priority areas' (illegal settlements in the west bank where Palestinians are not allowed to live) to those who have served in the army (which Palestinian Israeli civilians are not allowed to join). The second is an amendment to the first law, which gave other preferential treatment to those having served in the military. These laws give preferential treatment to Jews over Palestinians, and as such are racist.

Nice effort. They give preferential treatment to veterans over non-veterans. Arabs can, and do, serve in the IDF and Israel has created opportunities for arab youth to get similar benefits.

You obviously also have no clue what a national priority area is either. There are entirely Arab communities in NPAs and any Israeli citizen is allowed to live in one. Jerusalem is an NPA. Are you claiming there are no arabs there?

 

[fuji]

to those who have served in the army (which Palestinian Israeli civilians are not allowed to join).

Since when are Arab Israeli citizens not allowed to join the army?? You can't just make this stuff up. I guess nobody bothered to tell Abd el-Majid Hidr that he wasn't allowed to join the IDF, and nobody bothered to tell IDF that they weren't allowed to promote him to Lietenant Colonel and award him the Order of Distinction for his service.

It's become obvious you have no idea what you are talking about and that you mindlessly pasted that list without knowing what it was. It plainly does not demonstrate apartheid, and it's also plain that you yourself don't even know what you have pasted here.

 

[basketcase]

...

It's become obvious you have no idea what you are talking about ...

Quoted for truth.

 

[Kenny-sauga]

..but why does not Isareal signs NPT and allows IAEA (or whatever its called) inspectors in? Last they Israel flately refused to let them in/cooperate. So what is all is hoooo-haaaa about Iran/Korean when US of A blidly supprt Isreal on every front every time?

Don't you think its sickening?

 

[basketcase]

Nope. Israel has (allegedly) had nukes since 1967 and has been in several major wars since then including one where Syrian tanks were well on their way to Tel Aviv. That has sort of shown them a safe bet.

North Korea was under pressure because they agreed to the NPT then changed their mind when it suited them. They are also distrusted because they have been implicated in attempts to spread nuclear weapons. Iran is under pressure because it is in the NPT while working on nukes, talking about countries 'disappearing' and arming terrorist groups dedicated to that goal.

 

[groggy]

Nice effort. They give preferential treatment to veterans over non-veterans. Arabs can, and do, serve in the IDF and Israel has created opportunities for arab youth to get similar benefits.

You obviously also have no clue what a national priority area is either. There are entirely Arab communities in NPAs and any Israeli citizen is allowed to live in one. Jerusalem is an NPA. Are you claiming there are no arabs there?

I was wrong about Palestinians in the IDF, they are not banned, but just a minute minority. It does not change the fact though, that the law gives preferential treatment to a group that will be in the vast majority, Jewish. As such, its effects are those of a racist law, designed to give economic advantage to Jews over other races.

Here's a more eloquently put opinion:

A range of public spending policies initiated by Israel privilege the Jewish majority, compounding the inequitable allocation of state resources. One of the main tools employed by the state with which to channel public funds towards Jewish citizens is by conditioning eligibility for public services and economic benefits on the performance of “military service.” The vast majority of Palestinian citizens of Israel are exempted from military service and do not serve in the Israeli army for political and historical reasons. Thus the use of this criterion as a condition for awarding economic benefits discriminates against them on the basis of their national belonging and violates their right to equal enjoyment of various public services. By employing this criterion, the state is violating its duty to serve as a trustee for the entire public on an equal basis. Significantly, individuals who have served in the Israeli military already receive substantial compensation under The Absorption of Discharged Soldiers Law – 1994, which enumerates the broad range of social and economic benefits to which discharged soldiers are entitled, including housing and educational grants.56
For instance, a discriminatory Israeli governmental policy provides substantial financial support or “extended support”—in the form of low-interest governmental loans—for home mortgages to Israeli citizens who have completed military or national service. The majority of Arab citizens are automatically excluded from these state resources. Under this policy, a married couple in a poor socio-economic situation, each of whom has completed full military service, receives NIS 124,500 (around US $30,000) more towards their home mortgage than a similarly-situated married couple neither of whom served in the military. Since the purpose of supplemental governmental housing support is to assist the socio-economically disadvantaged to find housing solutions, the performance of military service is an arbitrary and irrelevant consideration in this instance. Therefore the effect of this and similar grants and financial support programs that are conditioned on the performance of military service is to widen inequality between the Jewish majority and the Arab minority in the state.

This is the third and fourth laws discussed and found to give preferential treatment of one race over another, though this one gets there without overtly stating its a racist law, its effects are clear.

Would you care to also look at taxation, social services, security and a host of other ways in which one race is given preferential treatment?

 

[basketcase]

So grog says it's racist because more Arabs don't choose to serve in the IDF. Pretty sensible (at least compared to his other claims).

 

[fuji]

Groggy, it would seem a more productive use of your time would be to stop criticizing Israel unfairly, and encourage more Arab Israelis to join the IDF. Some of the ones who have joined IDF have been promoted quite highly and decorated with some of Israel's highest honours, and in Israel it appears to be an important way to get ahead in society. Since all Arabs are entitled and welcome to join--seems like more should! Perhaps you should write some letters.

In any case you still have not provided a SINGLE example of some sort of criminal discrimination against Israeli Arab citizens. Given how many times you've been asked, and how you have completely failed to come up with ANYTHING, I think we can safely conclude that Israel is not an "apartheid state" and is, at worst, a country with some minor issues around discrimination. Certainly nothing reaching the level of a crime against humanity against its Arab citizens!!

 

[groggy]

In any case you still have not provided a SINGLE example of some sort of criminal discrimination against Israeli Arab citizens. Given how many times you've been asked, and how you have completely failed to come up with ANYTHING, I think we can safely conclude that Israel is not an "apartheid state" and is, at worst, a country with some minor issues around discrimination. Certainly nothing reaching the level of a crime against humanity against its Arab citizens!!

Again, you are setting up a straw man argument.
The question is whether there racist laws, social services or other forms of harassment that favour one racial or religious group over another. Proving there are laws that give preferential treatment to one racial or religious group is all that needs to be done for these examples. We have now seen 4 examples of racist laws, how many more of the 25 would like to talk about?

As with the other threads, you lost this argument a long time ago and have provided nothing to back up your position.

Israel is an apartheid state, built on ethnic cleansing and Jewish terrorism.

 

[fuji]

No, you ignorant carp, the question was whether there was any basis at all for your ludicrous claim that Israel is an "apartheid state", which by definition would mean that it commits crimes against humanity against some portion of its citizenry, presumably its Arab citizens.

However you have been unable to find a single reason why anybody would think that. In fact it extends the same rights to all of its citizens, and its Arab citizens enjoy greater rights and freedoms than Arabs in any other neighbouring country.

Instead of defending your idiotic point--or more honestly, admitting that you were wrong--you have changed the topic to questions about Israel's immigration law--something that is wholly irrelevant to the question of whether Israel commits crimes against humanity against some of its citizens.

Keep twisting and squirming and worming, I am going to nail you down on the fact that your claim is lying slander, and no amount of squirming by you is going to avoid that.

 

[groggy]

Read the findings and arguments of the Russell Tribunal, Fuji.

We've found the 25 racist laws within Israel proper, the apartheid roads and separate court system and social services within the West Bank and the collective punishment of the Bantustan Gaza. And yes, until there is a Palestinian state, its all under Israel's responsibility, so it counts.

Your straw man argument about trying to qualify racism to one subgroup of one part of the population is pointless, the case has been made and you have found no defense.
Israel is an apartheid state built on ethnic cleansing and Jewish terrorism.