Why Religion Fails

[blackrock13]

a book I just borrowed from the Toronto Public Library

IS JESUS A
MYTHICAL FIGURE?

Did early Christians like Paul believe in an entirely spiritual Son of God, and was the Gospel Jesus of Nazareth a later fictional character and faith symbol?

Every religion throughout history has developed a mythology about what is supposed to have happened at its beginning, and in most cases it's just that—mythology. Find out why Christianity's longstanding view of its origin in an historical Jesus is also a myth, and why the history of western religion needs to be rewritten.

Here are some typical reviews of The Jesus Puzzle, from professional scholars to the average lay reader:

"A remarkable book it is. Extremely well-written and very persuasive." Darrell Doughty, Professor of the New Testament, Drew University, Fellow of the Jesus Seminar and co-editor of "The Journal of Higher Criticism"

"This is the most compelling argument ever published in support of the theory that Jesus never existed as an historical person." Frank R. Zindler, editor of "American Atheist"

"I have never read such scholarship in so easy a style. You have a wonderful way of conveying quite complex ideas in an easy to understand manner. I've read a great many books challenging (Jesus') historicity, but nothing as 'dead on' as your book." Judith Hayes, author of "In God We Trust...But Which God?"

"The research is impeccable, and the conclusions you make are amazing. After spending most of my life drowning in fundamentalist Christianity, I feel that a great burden has been lifted from my shoulders." Adam C., a reader from Amazon.com

"(Your book) is fresh, vigorous and carries the reader forward with real style...It is my opinion that the book makes the case as masterfully and concisely as it could. I started the book determined to discredit it. By the time I reached the middle of the book, you had made your case. By the time I finished the book, I had an entirely new sense of what it means to "study the Bible as literature." Greg G., a reader from Massachusetts

"He is a clear writer, as clear as I've read." Oscar G., a reviewer on Amazon.com

* * *

The Jesus Puzzle: Did Christianity begin with a mythical Christ? is a thorough presentation of my argument that no historical Jesus existed. Full and comprehensive survey of the question, from the epistles to the Gospels, canonical and non-canonical documents, from Jewish and pagan philosophers and historians to the second century Christian apologists.

The book is largely an original work, not a compilation of website articles, although my "Second Century Apologists" article is reproduced as the final chapter. There are new insights and discussions not hitherto found on the site, such as on the origin of the Gospel of Mark, the Gospel of Thomas, gnosticism and docetism, the second century (Apostolic Fathers, Papias, Marcion, Acts of the Apostles, etc.). My views on Flavius Josephus have been given some reworking and expansion. Like the website itself, I have styled the book for the general reader, though the scholarly community should find it of value as well.

390 pages, complete with extensive and informative notes, appendices, bibliography, and index. Softcover edition, with full-color, laminated cover and fine-quality paper.

Major critics from the world of books and the author himself. The review had to fill itself up with something.

From;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Doherty

Among authors sympathetic to the view that Jesus never existed, Doherty's work has received mixed reactions. The Jesus Puzzle has received favorable reviews from skeptics Robert M. Price and Richard Carrier.[SUP][14][/SUP] Frank R. Zindler, former editor of American Atheist, in a review of The Jesus Puzzle described it as "the most compelling argument against the historical Jesus published in my life-time".[SUP][15][/SUP] George Albert Wells, who now argues a more moderate form of the Christ myth and who rejects Doherty's view that the mythical Jesus of Paul did not also descend to Earth,[SUP][16][/SUP] has nonetheless described The Jesus Puzzle as an "important book".[SUP][17][/SUP] R. Joseph Hoffmann considers that there are "reasons for scholars to hold" the view that Jesus never existed, but considers Doherty "A 'disciple' of Wells" who "has rehashed many of the former’s views in The Jesus Puzzle (Age of Reason Publications, 2005) which is qualitatively and academically far inferior to anything so far written on the subject".[SUP][18][/SUP] Doherty has responded that his work owes very little to Wells.[SUP][19][/SUP]
Writers who do not necessarily support the hypothesis that Jesus did not exist have found merit in some of Doherty's arguments. Hector Avalos has written that The Jesus Puzzle outlines a plausible theory for a completely mythical Jesus."[SUP][20] (but not proof)[/SUP]

 

[Aardvark154]

To quote from a review by Christopher Price:

"Though dead among scholarly circles - even among moderate and liberal ones - the idea that Jesus never existed has visceral appeal to many with negative attitudes towards Christianity. This book is not a serious academic work (it's published by the "Canadian Humanist Publications", whose bias is obvious and shared by the author), but it distinguishes itself from similar efforts by laypersons in its expansive scope. Rather than skirt the Pauline references to Jesus' human life, it embraces them and claims they support the notion that Jesus never existed. Rather than accept the consensus among historians and New Testament scholars that Josephus referred to Jesus on two occasions in Antiquities, the book rejects the idea that either reference is valid. The book's use of purported Middle Platonism to undercut seeming references to Jesus' human life in Paul's letters and Hebrews is especially clever (not the least because so few readers will have any understanding of what Middle Platonism is). . .

Doherty's attempt to explain away references to Jesus' human life in Paul's letters (and Hebrews) is ambitious but unconvincing. As the book goes through these passages, it becomes clear that time and again he resorts to unsupported translations, far fetched interpretations, misrepresentations of Middle Platonism, and creative - to say the least - use of secondary sources in order to support his theory. This foundation is shaky and gets weaker the more closely it is examined. One example which taught me to check the endnotes closely was the book's assertion that the phrase "according to the scriptures" in 1 Cor. 15 when referring to Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection had nothing to do with fulfilled prophecy but meant instead that Paul had learned about these things from the Old Testament - not James and Peter and the other Christians. The support for this interpretation? It is not in the text and the reader is referred to an endnote. To my surprise, the endnote does not refer to Paul's use of the phrase elsewhere. Nor does he refer to another NT writer's use of the phrase. Or to any Greek Lexicon. Or to any other Greek writer using the term as Doherty claims Paul uses it. All that Doherty refers to is an extraordinarily anachronistic modern day example of reading a newspaper. I was genuinely surprised at how weak and anachronistic the support was for such a crucial point.

Another problem throughout Doherty's book is his use of secondary sources. Often they are quoted so selectively that they are offered to support points that the source's author would denounce in the strongest terms - as is the case with his use of C.K. Barrett's fine commentary on Romans (while trying to dismiss Rom. 1:1-4 as a reference to Jesus' becoming human).

Regarding other issues, Doherty relies on theories that have already been debunked, such as his attempt to dismiss Acts as a source for early Christian history by referring to V. Robbins' oft-refuted theory about the we passages, or his insistence that neither of the references to Jesus in Josephus are authentic (despite overwhelming contrary opinion and evidence). A continuing flaw in Doherty's argument is his rush to explain things in terms of Middle Platonism, while ignoring obvious Jewish influence, parallels, and beliefs. Finally, the dismissive classification of the Gospels as midrash is so brief and so uninformed that it is of almost no worth (and his radically late dating of them unsupported by the evidence)."

As mentioned before you should really take the time to read some of the work of John D. Crossan and Marcus Borg, I know very well that they are available in Toronto area libraries.

 

[rld]

Canada man, feeding his pre-conceived bias and reading only the best...as usual.

 

[blackrock13]

I suspect CM will give us his review AFTER he reads it.

Then again maybe not.

 

[canada-man]

Christopher Price is himself a christian http://www.christiancadre.org/Answers.html

naturally he and his co-religionists would be against this book and other books that research into the origins of Christianity stuff church pastors, reverends and priests won't tell their flock and as usual they all ignore the contradictions in the 4 gospels, the 2 different lineages, different accounts of the crucifixion, different names of disciples, etc evidence presented like this will not work in a real court of law.

 

[canada-man]

 

[blackrock13]

Christopher Price is himself a christian http://www.christiancadre.org/Answers.html

naturally he and his co-religionists would be against this book and other books that research into the origins of Christianity stuff church pastors, reverends and priests won't tell their flock and as usual they all ignore the contradictions in the 4 gospels, the 2 different lineages, different accounts of the crucifixion, different names of disciples, etc evidence presented like this will not work in a real court of law.

His being Christian doesn't make his points invalid one bit. As someone posted earlier your posts are very focused on Christianity yet your epic thread started out claiming all religion fails. You can't even do that right. If you're bringing reality tv Judge Brown in to buttress your claims you are really scrapping the barrel. I can't wait 'til you quote Regis Philbin or Nancy Grace.

 

[canada-man]

His being Christian doesn't make his points invalid one bit. As someone posted earlier your posts are very focused on Christianity yet your epic thread started out claiming all religion fails. You can't even do that right. If you're bringing reality tv Judge Brown in to buttress your claims you are really scrapping the barrel. I can't wait 'til you quote Regis Philbin or Nancy Grace.

my posts mainly focus on Christianity because it is the dominant religion in the west.

Christopher is part of a christian apologetic group the same crowd that objects when historians wrote books about the history of Christianity using documented facts. they fear losing their religious power and privilege. they are the same kind that wish people to be continue to be ignorant on the history of Christianity. as more people read books like the Jesus puzzle they will reject the religion.

 

[blackrock13]

my posts mainly focus on Christianity because it is the dominant religion in the west.

Christopher is part of a christian apologetic group the same crowd that objects when historians wrote books about the history of Christianity using documented facts. they fear losing their religious power and privilege. they are the same kind that wish people to be continue to be ignorant on the history of Christianity. as more people read books like the Jesus puzzle they will reject the religion.

Mainly focus?

If Price was the only one that felt Doherty's book and arguments were weak there might be a point, but even those of a similar backgrounds of opinions feel he fell short. Keep treading water Bob.

How the reading coming alonG?

 

[friedrice]

Don't waste your time reading 100 useless pages of this thread. Just watch nine dazzling minutes of Hitchens. Monty Python couldn't have done better.

 

[Aardvark154]

Christopher Price is himself a christian.

Which has quite what to do with the matter at hand? Your comment is rather like saying that criticial reviews of book about history come from Historians, or Zoologists tend to write the most scathing reviews of poorly researched books about animal behavour.

Anyone who knows anything paned this book.

 

[canada-man]

Sexy eyes offend Saudi purity police
Barry Duke on November 19th, 2011

The latest report out of Saudi Arabia concerning the mad activities of the purity police suggests they are now considering a ban on the display of sexy eyes – women’s eyes, that is.

The Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (CPVPV) have apparently detected instances of provocative eye displays in the Islamic Kingdom, and have decided that a clamp-down is required.

Spokesman of the Ha’eal district, Sheikh Motlab al-Nabet said the committee has the right to stop women whose eyes seem “tempting” and order her to cover them immediately.

Three years ago the BBC reported that a Muslim cleric in Saudi Arabia had called on women to wear a full veil, or niqab, that reveals only one eye.

Sheikh Muhammad al-Habadan said showing both eyes encouraged women to use eye make-up to look seductive.

The latest announcement came days after the Saudi newspaper al-Watan reported that a Saudi man was admitted to a hospital after a fight with a member of the committee who ordered his wife to cover her eyes. The husband was then stabbed twice in the hand.

The CPVPV have draconian powers over the lives of ordinary Saudis, but these do not appear to extend to the country’s royal elite. A Wikileaks document released last year said that:

Wild Western-style parties” are regularly held at royal palaces in Jeddah, away from the reach of the committee, who stands helpless against any royal violations.

It was reported that alcohol, drugs, dancing and sex were a feature of these bacchanalian parties.

http://freethinker.co.uk/2011/11/19/sexy-eyes-offend-saudi-purity-police/

In Jamaica preachers on buses is a common problem


Letters to the Editor
Buses not for preaching

Tuesday, November 01, 2011

As I made my way to work on a JUTC bus from Portmore to Kingston on October 31, I was bombarded with the thundering and often deafening voice of a preacher. This is quite a common occurrence on public transportation and one which most people have become accustomed to. I take issue with preachers taking it upon themselves to impose religious beliefs on members of the population who rely on public transportation.

These "bus sermons" are often full-blown church services, complete with the shouting, singing and offering. This is a problem insofar as I, like other passengers, have a right to peace and quiet as I make the journey to my destination. Buses are quite frankly not the place for preaching.

I am aware that Jamaica is a predominantly Christian nation. Does this mean I therefore must accept preaching on buses? No. I do not accept this bigoted stance. Though Christianity is the most widely accepted religion here, there are people with other religious persuasions. How many of the very people who believe Christians should have free reign to preach wherever they choose would tolerate Muslims and Hindus preaching on public buses? Not many, I assure you. I am sure people who like preaching know where to find such gatherings. We do, after all, have the most churches per square mile.

Preaching should not be tolerated on buses, whether by Christians or other religious groups. The bus company and the government should look into regulating the bus system in regards to this and other acts that impose on individuals' rights.

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/letters/Buses-not-for-preaching_10052501

 

[blackrock13]

Sexy eyes offend Saudi purity police
Barry Duke on November 19th, 2011

The latest report out of Saudi Arabia concerning the mad activities of the purity police suggests they are now considering a ban on the display of sexy eyes – women’s eyes, that is.

The Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (CPVPV) have apparently detected instances of provocative eye displays in the Islamic Kingdom, and have decided that a clamp-down is required.

Spokesman of the Ha’eal district, Sheikh Motlab al-Nabet said the committee has the right to stop women whose eyes seem “tempting” and order her to cover them immediately.

Three years ago the BBC reported that a Muslim cleric in Saudi Arabia had called on women to wear a full veil, or niqab, that reveals only one eye.

Sheikh Muhammad al-Habadan said showing both eyes encouraged women to use eye make-up to look seductive.

The latest announcement came days after the Saudi newspaper al-Watan reported that a Saudi man was admitted to a hospital after a fight with a member of the committee who ordered his wife to cover her eyes. The husband was then stabbed twice in the hand.

The CPVPV have draconian powers over the lives of ordinary Saudis, but these do not appear to extend to the country’s royal elite. A Wikileaks document released last year said that:

Wild Western-style parties” are regularly held at royal palaces in Jeddah, away from the reach of the committee, who stands helpless against any royal violations.

It was reported that alcohol, drugs, dancing and sex were a feature of these bacchanalian parties.

http://freethinker.co.uk/2011/11/19/sexy-eyes-offend-saudi-purity-police/

In Jamaica preachers on buses is a common problem


Letters to the Editor
Buses not for preaching

Tuesday, November 01, 2011

As I made my way to work on a JUTC bus from Portmore to Kingston on October 31, I was bombarded with the thundering and often deafening voice of a preacher. This is quite a common occurrence on public transportation and one which most people have become accustomed to. I take issue with preachers taking it upon themselves to impose religious beliefs on members of the population who rely on public transportation.

These "bus sermons" are often full-blown church services, complete with the shouting, singing and offering. This is a problem insofar as I, like other passengers, have a right to peace and quiet as I make the journey to my destination. Buses are quite frankly not the place for preaching.

I am aware that Jamaica is a predominantly Christian nation. Does this mean I therefore must accept preaching on buses? No. I do not accept this bigoted stance. Though Christianity is the most widely accepted religion here, there are people with other religious persuasions. How many of the very people who believe Christians should have free reign to preach wherever they choose would tolerate Muslims and Hindus preaching on public buses? Not many, I assure you. I am sure people who like preaching know where to find such gatherings. We do, after all, have the most churches per square mile.

Preaching should not be tolerated on buses, whether by Christians or other religious groups. The bus company and the government should look into regulating the bus system in regards to this and other acts that impose on individuals' rights.

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/letters/Buses-not-for-preaching_10052501

What an arrogant self-absorbed SOB. He's a visitor to foreign country and thinks he doesn't have respect or at least tolerate their customs and daily practices. Then he goes on and preaches to whomever what they should,do. CM you are so desperate to try and put forth some type, any type of argument that you use a whining tourists rant to put down Christianity. You are a clown, but at least you're consistent.

 

[Mervyn]

Actually "I cannot consider your religion or lack of religion would be a proper title for that video."

 

[blackrock13]

Actually "I cannot consider your religion or lack of religion would be a proper title for that video."

CM is known for that.

 

[canada-man]

What an arrogant self-absorbed SOB. He's a visitor to foreign country and thinks he doesn't have respect or at least tolerate their customs and daily practices. Then he goes on and preaches to whomever what they should,do. CM you are so desperate to try and put forth some type, any type of argument that you use a whining tourists rant to put down Christianity. You are a clown, but at least you're consistent.

blackrock13 is so blinded by his obsession to oppose everything i said that he failed to see that the person writing to the editor is JAMAICAN CITIZEN BORN IN JAMAICA. foreigners are not allowed to work in foreign nations without a work permits.

 

[blackrock13]

blackrock13 is so blinded by his obsession to oppose everything i said that he failed to see that the person writing to the editor is JAMAICAN CITIZEN BORN IN JAMAICA. foreigners are not allowed to work in foreign nations without a work permits.

Well, I guess I was breaking the law when I worked in about a dozen different countries. It's not as cut and dry as you try to make us believe. I've worked in about a half a dozen different caribbean countries, albeit for short term work and never needed a work permit. There are all sorts of situations where people can do work in different countries without your blessed permits. Please point out where exactly does it say he was Jamaican born. I know, you can tell by his accent.

 

[canada-man]

Hilltop Baptist School Teacher, Pastors, And Principal Arrested In Colo. Springs Child Sexual Assault Case


In a case that may lend itself to comparison with the current sexual abuse scandal that has engulfed the Penn State football program, a teacher, two pastors, and a former principal were all arrested Thursday in El Paso County. A grand jury has indicted the teacher for having sexually assaulted a 15-year-old male student at Hilltop Baptist School beginning in 2007, and the other three for covering it up.

According to the indictment, the teacher, 32-year-old Terah Allyn Rawlings, has been charged with eight counts in all: four counts of sexual assault on a child by one in a position of trust-pattern of abuse (a class 3 felony), four counts of sexual assault on a child by one in a position of trust (a class 4 felony), and obscenity promotion (a class 2 misdemeanor).

KRDO reports the teacher allegedly had a relationship with the boy for two and a half years, beginning when he was 15. Anonymous sources told the station the school covered up the relationship until a staff member called the sheriff against the school's permission.

Hilltop Baptist School's senior pastor, 63-year-old Franklin "Wayne" Knight, was also arrested. Knight is Rawlings's uncle.

Rawlings's father, 57-year-old Raymond "Alan" Knight, the school's former athletic director and associate pastor, has been arrested as well and charge with failure to report child abuse or neglect. The school's Facebook page boasts Alan was the 2011 Division 1A coach of the year.

Jan Ocvirk, the school's former principal, was also arrested. She faces two counts of failure to report child abuse or neglect.

Though Hilltop Baptist School closed in 2011 due to declining enrollment, Private School Review provides the school's mission statement, last updated in June 2011:

Hilltop Baptist School's belief is that each child is a unique creation of God endowed with individual gifts and abilities that, when recognized and developed, will enable that child to succeed in the way his Creator intended. Our highly committed, qualified and caring staff teach at Hilltop because they have a genuine desire to positively impact young lives. They have surrendered their lives to a ministry of preparing young people to live successful Godly lives. This task is accomplished not only through academics but also by developing relationships of mutual trust and respect with their students.

Several reviews of Hilltop Baptist School on greatschools.org paint a picture of trouble. One reviewer, known only as 'casualty of Hilltop,' writes:

I attended this school from 2nd grade through 12th grade. I would not recommend this school for any child, and was happy to learn that the school is now closed... those who "taught" were not required to be qualified to teach. The only requirement was willingness to brainwash the students into the Christian persuasion. After I graduated I learned that many of the things I was taught were inaccurate. It is such a shame I was tossed into the world so ill prepared.

According to the Gazette, Colorado state law treats church workers and teachers as "mandatory reporters" who are are legally required to contact authorities if they are aware of child abuse.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/17/hilltop-baptist-school-child-sex-assault_n_1100149.html

 

[Aardvark154]

Only C-M would compare Saudi Arabia and his natal land. :frusty:

 

[canada-man]

Only C-M would compare Saudi Arabia and his natal land. :frusty:

both countries have problems with religious fanatics