Generalizing from a small minority to a large number of people and being misleading about a group of people is hate mongering.
Why Religion Fails
- Thread starter canada-man
- Start date
- Status
Once again your bias and hypocracy drive you to say foolish things.
We have not found any documents from the lifetime of Jesus that mention him. Nor Pontius Pilate for that matter, But only a small fragment of the documents of that time have survived. To take the jump from that to "nobody every documented or wrote anything" is ignorant and illogical. But I am not surprised.
You are also a hypocrite on this issue, as many historical figures that I suspect you believe existed we only know about by writings that have an even larger gap than Jesus. But since you hate religion you apply different standards. This is the epitome of intellectual dishonesty.
And I do note you jumped on the Catholic Peace Train the other day and have been silent about it since. I guess religion sucks...until it agrees with you.
Then why do humans always develop religion?
It must be part of that good nature you want to believe in. Religion is one of the most universal things in human culture.
CM's titles match those posted by the G&G junk collectors and seldom match the C&P articles he continually deluges us with, when they're put under scrutiny. The three make great crib mates
Many MANY pages ago you posted a story from some blog about the experience someone had with a very devout christian. Being a blog there was no way anyone could verify if this story was true or not, and I asked you how could you use in something you cannot possibly prove ? you simply stated because you believe it.
You have shown time and time again Canada-man that you suffer the same faults you so detest in others.
Why not name names?
I'm sure we could start a lengthy list of people who are world leaders in their fields of endeavor who would be hard to classify as weak brainwashed individuals, have religion play a large part in their life and did basically blows holes in your broad sweeping proclamation.
The vast majority of people in history and in the world today are religious. Most of the great figures of history are religious. I guess you are just lucky that you are so much better than not only the majority, but the elites.
How about the guy who headed up the human genome project:
http://articles.cnn.com/2007-04-03/us/collins.commentary_1_god-dna-revelation?_s=PM:US
Or maybe...President Obama...
Too funny
But hey, while we are on the subject, I understand you two have a disadvantage when discussing religion, but are you so delusional to believe that if you asked somebody like OBAMA if he ACTUALLY believed in his god (pic one) and his religion (pic one), he would answer truthfully.
Come on, this also applies to a very large segment of the remaining "religious", who would never answer truthfully, if you don't understand that, your beyond help.
Also, I bet we could name quite a few "religious" leaders who were NOT so kind.
FAST
Actually, I was referring to rld and aardvark.
But hey, while we are on the subject, I understand you two have a disadvantage when discussing religion, but are you so delusional to believe that if you asked somebody like OBAMA if he ACTUALLY believed in his god (pic one) and his religion (pic one), he would answer truthfully.
Come on, this also applies to a very large segment of the remaining "religious", who would never answer truthfully, if you don't understand that, your beyond help.
Also, I bet we could name quite a few "religious" leaders who were NOT so kind.
FAST
So now we go from religious people are weak and brainwashed to a large segment are, hmmmmmm. Can you say backpedal?
The last point was not what you claimed, so no list needed.
Wrong
And, religious people lying, no way, never happen, oh wait, they have a divine right to do just that.
FAST
No I'm not back pedaling, I stand by my statement.
And, religious people lying, no way, never happen, oh wait, they have a divine right to do just that.
FAST
So much for your standing, because there isn't a clear thinking person alive who would call Mandela weak minded and brainwash material, but you keep up the good work.
As for your last statement nobody defending on this BB has made that claim. so you making claims that don't exist once more.
Religion is the bulwark against reason gone awry.
There is no reason, as all reason starts out based on axioms - which are instinctive.
So religion is a bulwark against instincts which are detrimental to social functioning.
There is no set level of social functioning. What generally happens is two cultures come into competition, and the one with a higher level of social functioning overruns the other and thereby memes (carried by religion) spread evolutionarily.
[QUOTE="Matt Ridley's book THE RED QUEEN]
The six independent "civilizations" of early history—Babylon, Egypt, India, China, Aztec Mexico, and Inca Peru—were remarkable less for their civility than for their concentration of power. They were all ruled by men, one man at a time, whose power was arbitrary and absolute. These men were despots, meaning they
could kill their subjects without fear of retribution. Without exception, that vast accumulation of power was always translated into prodigious sexual productivity. The Babylonian king Hammurabi had thousands of slave "wives" at his command. The Egyptian pharaoh Akhenaten procured 317 concubines and "droves"of con-
sorts. The Aztec ruler Montezuma enjoyed 4,000 concubines. [/QUOTE]
Men want to have all the young fertile women to themselves. Women, on the other hand, want to mate with the king (this is very simplified). If both sides followed instinct - the world becomes a very brutal place - with many men involuntarily celibate for their entire life.
This problem is inherent - no reasoning can get around it - see start of post. So cultural competition allows rare 'unnatural' memes to spread (these memes, being unnatural and of no benefit to any one individual - can only be imposed by something irrational - aka religion).
To give an example - the Ottoman empire was started by a mere 400 families who were escaping the raids of Genghis Khan. Surely, a lot of people lived around this group. But their cultural advantage allowed them to conquer adjacent groups till that culture became an empire.
There is no reason, as all reason starts out based on axioms - which are instinctive.
So religion is a bulwark against instincts which are detrimental to social functioning.
There is no set level of social functioning. What generally happens is two cultures come into competition, and the one with a higher level of social functioning overruns the other and thereby memes (carried by religion) spread evolutionarily.
[QUOTE="Matt Ridley's book THE RED QUEEN]
The six independent "civilizations" of early history—Babylon, Egypt, India, China, Aztec Mexico, and Inca Peru—were remarkable less for their civility than for their concentration of power. They were all ruled by men, one man at a time, whose power was arbitrary and absolute. These men were despots, meaning they
could kill their subjects without fear of retribution. Without exception, that vast accumulation of power was always translated into prodigious sexual productivity. The Babylonian king Hammurabi had thousands of slave "wives" at his command. The Egyptian pharaoh Akhenaten procured 317 concubines and "droves"of con-
sorts. The Aztec ruler Montezuma enjoyed 4,000 concubines. [/QUOTE]
Men want to have all the young fertile women to themselves. Women, on the other hand, want to mate with the king (this is very simplified). If both sides followed instinct - the world becomes a very brutal place - with many men involuntarily celibate for their entire life.
This problem is inherent - no reasoning can get around it - see start of post. So cultural competition allows rare 'unnatural' memes to spread (these memes, being unnatural and of no benefit to any one individual - can only be imposed by something irrational - aka religion).
To give an example - the Ottoman empire was started by a mere 400 families who were escaping the raids of Genghis Khan. Surely, a lot of people lived around this group. But their cultural advantage allowed them to conquer adjacent groups till that culture became an empire.
Ya, I can read you tried too use some lame sidestep saying you were talking about Aartie and RLD. Nice dance. You're other stuff is just vacuous crap.
a book I just borrowed from the Toronto Public Library
IS JESUS A
MYTHICAL FIGURE?
Did early Christians like Paul believe in an entirely spiritual Son of God, and was the Gospel Jesus of Nazareth a later fictional character and faith symbol?
Every religion throughout history has developed a mythology about what is supposed to have happened at its beginning, and in most cases it's just that—mythology. Find out why Christianity's longstanding view of its origin in an historical Jesus is also a myth, and why the history of western religion needs to be rewritten.
Here are some typical reviews of The Jesus Puzzle, from professional scholars to the average lay reader:
"A remarkable book it is. Extremely well-written and very persuasive." Darrell Doughty, Professor of the New Testament, Drew University, Fellow of the Jesus Seminar and co-editor of "The Journal of Higher Criticism"
"This is the most compelling argument ever published in support of the theory that Jesus never existed as an historical person." Frank R. Zindler, editor of "American Atheist"
"I have never read such scholarship in so easy a style. You have a wonderful way of conveying quite complex ideas in an easy to understand manner. I've read a great many books challenging (Jesus') historicity, but nothing as 'dead on' as your book." Judith Hayes, author of "In God We Trust...But Which God?"
"The research is impeccable, and the conclusions you make are amazing. After spending most of my life drowning in fundamentalist Christianity, I feel that a great burden has been lifted from my shoulders." Adam C., a reader from Amazon.com
"(Your book) is fresh, vigorous and carries the reader forward with real style...It is my opinion that the book makes the case as masterfully and concisely as it could. I started the book determined to discredit it. By the time I reached the middle of the book, you had made your case. By the time I finished the book, I had an entirely new sense of what it means to "study the Bible as literature." Greg G., a reader from Massachusetts
"He is a clear writer, as clear as I've read." Oscar G., a reviewer on Amazon.com
* * *
The Jesus Puzzle: Did Christianity begin with a mythical Christ? is a thorough presentation of my argument that no historical Jesus existed. Full and comprehensive survey of the question, from the epistles to the Gospels, canonical and non-canonical documents, from Jewish and pagan philosophers and historians to the second century Christian apologists.
The book is largely an original work, not a compilation of website articles, although my "Second Century Apologists" article is reproduced as the final chapter. There are new insights and discussions not hitherto found on the site, such as on the origin of the Gospel of Mark, the Gospel of Thomas, gnosticism and docetism, the second century (Apostolic Fathers, Papias, Marcion, Acts of the Apostles, etc.). My views on Flavius Josephus have been given some reworking and expansion. Like the website itself, I have styled the book for the general reader, though the scholarly community should find it of value as well.
390 pages, complete with extensive and informative notes, appendices, bibliography, and index. Softcover edition, with full-color, laminated cover and fine-quality paper.
IS JESUS A
MYTHICAL FIGURE?
Did early Christians like Paul believe in an entirely spiritual Son of God, and was the Gospel Jesus of Nazareth a later fictional character and faith symbol?
Every religion throughout history has developed a mythology about what is supposed to have happened at its beginning, and in most cases it's just that—mythology. Find out why Christianity's longstanding view of its origin in an historical Jesus is also a myth, and why the history of western religion needs to be rewritten.
Here are some typical reviews of The Jesus Puzzle, from professional scholars to the average lay reader:
"A remarkable book it is. Extremely well-written and very persuasive." Darrell Doughty, Professor of the New Testament, Drew University, Fellow of the Jesus Seminar and co-editor of "The Journal of Higher Criticism"
"This is the most compelling argument ever published in support of the theory that Jesus never existed as an historical person." Frank R. Zindler, editor of "American Atheist"
"I have never read such scholarship in so easy a style. You have a wonderful way of conveying quite complex ideas in an easy to understand manner. I've read a great many books challenging (Jesus') historicity, but nothing as 'dead on' as your book." Judith Hayes, author of "In God We Trust...But Which God?"
"The research is impeccable, and the conclusions you make are amazing. After spending most of my life drowning in fundamentalist Christianity, I feel that a great burden has been lifted from my shoulders." Adam C., a reader from Amazon.com
"(Your book) is fresh, vigorous and carries the reader forward with real style...It is my opinion that the book makes the case as masterfully and concisely as it could. I started the book determined to discredit it. By the time I reached the middle of the book, you had made your case. By the time I finished the book, I had an entirely new sense of what it means to "study the Bible as literature." Greg G., a reader from Massachusetts
"He is a clear writer, as clear as I've read." Oscar G., a reviewer on Amazon.com
* * *
The Jesus Puzzle: Did Christianity begin with a mythical Christ? is a thorough presentation of my argument that no historical Jesus existed. Full and comprehensive survey of the question, from the epistles to the Gospels, canonical and non-canonical documents, from Jewish and pagan philosophers and historians to the second century Christian apologists.
The book is largely an original work, not a compilation of website articles, although my "Second Century Apologists" article is reproduced as the final chapter. There are new insights and discussions not hitherto found on the site, such as on the origin of the Gospel of Mark, the Gospel of Thomas, gnosticism and docetism, the second century (Apostolic Fathers, Papias, Marcion, Acts of the Apostles, etc.). My views on Flavius Josephus have been given some reworking and expansion. Like the website itself, I have styled the book for the general reader, though the scholarly community should find it of value as well.
390 pages, complete with extensive and informative notes, appendices, bibliography, and index. Softcover edition, with full-color, laminated cover and fine-quality paper.
- Status
