Why do Americans consider Israel their closest ally?
- Thread starter GG2
- Start date
Let's see, casualties in the 2006 war:Lucky you didn't have any money riding on the new Israeli warship that was speared by a Hezbollah missile. The dopes in the IDF were too thick to be prepared when they were at war. And how much money did you lose on the poor IDF saps turned into spaghetti inside their Merkava tanks after being hit by Hezbollah missiles?
Hezbollah: 500 to 600 fighters killed, depending on the source (UN claims 500, IDF claims 600, Lebanese govt estimates vary from 500 to 700)
Israel: 121
So IDF killed between 4 and 6 Hezbollah fighters for every IDF fighter lost. That ratio is worse than in other wars Israel fought, but it hardly supports your claim.
As for the Merkava tanks, they did not have active protection systems installed during the 2006 Lebanon war, which since last year they now do have, so they are no longer vulnerable to the anti-tank weapons Hezbollah was using at that time. Even then, IDF only lost an average of one soldier per tank penetration (out of a crew of seven), which was lower than in previous wars.
Well it was a Chinese C-802 cruise missile supplied by Iran, and a junior officer had shut down the ship’s active defenses without notifying the commander, in the belief that the ship was not under threat.Lucky you didn't have any money riding on the new Israeli warship that was speared by a Hezbollah missile.
Russian Kornet (9M133) AT-14 anti-tank missiles sold to Syria and then supplied to Hezbollah.the poor IDF saps turned into spaghetti inside their Merkava tanks after being hit by Hezbollah missiles?
This was not Hezbollah using some "home made" IED.
But how can that be...Iran is a peace loving harmless nation...no threat to Israel at all...Well it was a Chinese C-802 cruise missile supplied by Iran, and a junior officer had shut down the ship’s active defenses without notifying the commander, in the belief that the ship was not under threat.
Russian Kornet (9M133) AT-14 anti-tank missiles sold to Syria and then supplied to Hezbollah.
This was not Hezbollah using some "home made" IED.
Oh, and here's another way of looking at the casualties of the 2006 Lebanon war:
Hezbollah lost about 15% of its active military force, all of which was involved in the conflict, or about 5% of its total strength including reserves.
Israel lost about 1% of the 10k person force it deployed to Lebanon, or 1/20th of 1% of its total active military, or about 1/100th of 1% of its total force strength including reserves.
What do you think would have happened to Hezbollah had the conflict continued?
Hezbollah lost about 15% of its active military force, all of which was involved in the conflict, or about 5% of its total strength including reserves.
Israel lost about 1% of the 10k person force it deployed to Lebanon, or 1/20th of 1% of its total active military, or about 1/100th of 1% of its total force strength including reserves.
What do you think would have happened to Hezbollah had the conflict continued?
You don't know how to provide sources?Let's see, casualties in the 2006 war:
Hezbollah: 500 to 600 fighters killed, depending on the source (UN claims 500, IDF claims 600, Lebanese govt estimates vary from 500 to 700)
Israel: 121
So IDF killed between 4 and 6 Hezbollah fighters for every IDF fighter lost. That ratio is worse than in other wars Israel fought, but it hardly supports your claim.
As for the Merkava tanks, they did not have active protection systems installed during the 2006 Lebanon war, which since last year they now do have, so they are no longer vulnerable to the anti-tank weapons Hezbollah was using at that time. Even then, IDF only lost an average of one soldier per tank penetration (out of a crew of seven), which was lower than in previous wars.
Here's a reference to the UN estimate of Hezbollah casualties: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1526970/Peacekeeping-force-wont-disarm-Hizbollah.htmlYou don't know how to provide sources?
That reference says that the 500 represent 10% of Hezbollah's fighting force.
That's an insult, not a threat.And there was that thing about Israel being a cancer...
try again.
It's an implied threat.That's an insult, not a threat.
try again.
You mean like the strong military alliance between the US and Saudi Arabia? The Americans sold $60 billion in weaponry to the Saudis in 2010. Is that what you're talking about?Irael has no resources, or manpower that can benefit the USA. USA would be better off making alliances with its oil rich neighbors.
I always believed that it was remnants from the Cold War where Israel was a democracy and allied with the US while the neighboring Arab states allied with the Soviets. While the Cold War is now over, Israel is looked as a long time ally in the region.Well, no useful answer in that post. It actually makes no sense at all.
I too am curious why the US fawns over Israel so much. Is it post-WWII guilt for getting inthe the war so late? Is it that Israel is the only non-Muslim country in the region?
Yeah, you can sum it up in three words: Democracy versus terrorism.
However the US is strongly allied with several countries in the region, not only Israel. Saudi Arabia is another close US ally. Egypt was... remains to be seen whether it still will be under the new regime.
However the US is strongly allied with several countries in the region, not only Israel. Saudi Arabia is another close US ally. Egypt was... remains to be seen whether it still will be under the new regime.
Except Iran is a semi-democracy. Unfortunately all the hatemongering does is empower the hardliners there who can easily preach 'the US and Israel want to attack us' and curtail freedoms and screw up elections. Up until the last election, the elections were relatively fair.Yeah, you can sum it up in three words: Democracy versus terrorism.
However the US is strongly allied with several countries in the region, not only Israel. Saudi Arabia is another close US ally. Egypt was... remains to be seen whether it still will be under the new regime.
Saudi Arabia is not a democracy, why aren't they an issue? They supplied most of folks who really perpetrated the only real terrorist attack on the US so should rank higher as a threat of terrorism to the US then Iran.
Your rationale is just messed up, and you have no evidence of any real threat.
The closest you've come, Fuji, is an unverified quote that you call an 'implied threat, but is just an insult. Its as much a threat to Israel as me calling you morally repugnant is to you.
I guess semi-democracy means you get a choice of which hand picked candidates the supreme council lets you vote for.Except Iran is a semi-democracy. ...
Not much different from the US, in which Corporate sponsors donate millions to their favored candidates allowing them greater media exposure.I guess semi-democracy means you get a choice of which hand picked candidates the supreme council lets you vote for.
That must be the reason China and the US have great trade relations: Democracy.Yeah, you can sum it up in three words: Democracy versus terrorism.
However the US is strongly allied with several countries in the region, not only Israel. Saudi Arabia is another close US ally. Egypt was... remains to be seen whether it still will be under the new regime.
And they benefitted. Had they listened to Israel, they would have been 60 billion poorer. Iran is rich in oil, and has great potential as a trade partner. Isreal on the other hand is just a recepient of US aid.You mean like the strong military alliance between the US and Saudi Arabia? The Americans sold $60 billion in weaponry to the Saudis in 2010. Is that what you're talking about?
No it isn't. Iran is a dictatorship run by the "Supreme Leader", who has absolutely and complete dictatorial control over the country. In the few fraud elections that exist the Supreme Leader gets to hand pick the candidates. Anybody who he doesn't like will not be authorized to run by his hand picked "Guardian Council". Iran is nowhere close to a democracy. Nothing even REMOTELY like a democracy. The fact that it has sham elections does not make it a democracy.Except Iran is a semi-democracy.
I didn't say that democracy was the only reason why the US supports nations world wide, just that it's one reason, and an important one. In the case of Israel versus Hamas it's democracy versus terrorism, a plus versus a minus. In the case of Saudi Arabia plainly it's oil that attracts the US.Saudi Arabia is not a democracy, why aren't they an issue?
That's incorrect. A lot of terrorists have come from Saudi Arabia but there is no evidence anywhere that they are supported by the government in Saudi Arabia. There's a big difference.They supplied most of folks who really perpetrated the only real terrorist attack on the US so should rank higher as a threat of terrorism to the US then Iran.
In fact the Saudis have been instrumental in helping the US bring down Al Qaeda. The Saudi intelligence agencies are able to infiltrate into Al Qaeda in ways that the CIA cannot. Although the Saudis don't go public with their co-operation with the United States, it's real, and it's significant, and it's why they get to buy $60 billion in weapons.
Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism. Israel is a democracy. Saudi Arabia is neither, but it does have oil.And they benefitted. Had they listened to Israel, they would have been 60 billion poorer. Iran is rich in oil, and has great potential as a trade partner. Isreal on the other hand is just a recepient of US aid.
In fact if you pulled your head out of your butt you would figure out that one reason why the Saudis get 60 billion in arms is exactly so that they can one day fight Iran. That and it's payola for helping infiltrate Al Qaeda.
Actually if the Palestinian situation were resolved, Israel, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia are natural allies in the region. In fact they do co-operate extensively, by proxy through the Americans. You'll note those three nations now operate with largely compatible, inter-operable military equipment.... some alliances are kept rather quiet.
The Palestinian terrorists are largely supported by Iran and Syria, which are natural enemies of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and... Israel. Egypt has helped Israel enforce the blockade of Gaza. Saudi Arabia has spearheaded the Arab League's outreaches to Israel, such as they've been. Lebanon is caught in the middle, with Hezbollah siding with the Syrian/Iranian bloc, and other elements siding with the Israeli/Saudi bloc.
