The Bash Fuji Thread

[fuji]

and if deriving from first principles

Nobody does that, and your demand for it is pure pedantry. If you want a philosophy of first principles you'll get to "I think therefore I am" and struggle to get much further than that. It's simply not a useful mode of analysis.

What people actually do in debates like this is look at the assumptions underlying an argument and accept them if they are on the whole more reasonable than alternate assumptions.

You, just for fun perhaps, are trying to attack the definition of every word, and every assumption, even though you don't have any more reasonable assumption or word to offer up in its place. That's just useless, boring pedantry.

Try it, take a serious crack at this, without being a pedant:

A morality which prescribes against normal human behavior is a bad morality.

If you stop being a pedant there is so much that is interesting to discuss there--we could start in on the notion that a morality in and of itself can be good and bad, what's the justification for such meta statements? Who decides? Come on sw1tch show a little spark of imagination there, and stop being such a damned pedant. It's boring.

 

[rld]

Nobody does that, and your demand for it is pure pedantry. If you want a philosophy of first principles you'll get to "I think therefore I am" and struggle to get much further than that. It's simply not a useful mode of analysis.

What people actually do in debates like this is look at the assumptions underlying an argument and accept them if they are on the whole more reasonable than alternate assumptions.

You, just for fun perhaps, are trying to attack the definition of every word, and every assumption, even though you don't have any more reasonable assumption or word to offer up in its place. That's just useless, boring pedantry.

Try it, take a serious crack at this, without being a pedant:

A morality which prescribes against normal human behavior is a bad morality.

If you stop being a pedant there is so much that is interesting to discuss there--we could start in on the notion that a morality in and of itself can be good and bad, what's the justification for such meta statements? Who decides? Come on sw1tch show a little spark of imagination there, and stop being such a damned pedant. It's boring.

You would make a good snake oil salesman.

The premise you want to debate has a number of built in assumptions that are false. You just keep trying to gloss over them...and keep failing.

 

[fuji]

The premise you want to debate has a number of built in assumptions that are false.

Such as?

 

[rld]

Such as?

Read up-thread...

 

[fuji]

Read up-thread...

All you posted up thread were some insinuations.

 

[Aardvark154]

A morality which prescribes against normal human behavior is a bad morality.

Which is just plain a moronic statement.

You may not like my saying so but murder, rape, theft are devient behaviour but certainly normal in the sense of often occuring, not uncommon, human behaviour.

However, I don't think even you are going to argue that murder, rape, theft etc. . . are moral.

 

[fuji]

Something like 50% of the male population engages in infidelity, and many more than that would if they had the opportunity to do so.

Are you claiming that 50% of the population commits murder and rape?

I realize that pointing out that it is ordinary behavior does not necessarily mean that it is healthy/normal behavior. It's just some strong evidence that it is normal, healthy behavior. You'd have to argue that our whole society was deviant to argue that it's ordinariness in our culture is not sufficient to show it's normal and healthy.

 

[Aardvark154]

So your argument now is that the more frequently the behaviour occurs the better it is?

Seems we are back to "Murderville" of a couple of days ago.

 

[fuji]

So your argument now is that the more frequently the behaviour occurs the better it is?

Seems we are back to "Murderville" of a couple of days ago.

I answered this EXACT point a few days ago, from you, and you simply ignored my reply. Now you post it AGAIN. Are you going to ignore my reply again, and then post it AGAIN? Do you think you're credible doing that?

We are not talking about "Murderville" or "Cheaterville" here, we are talking about an activity that is widespread in the entire population of the United States, and almost certainly in the entire human population world wide, so your statement is tantamount to calling the entire United States "Murderville", if you are not actually calling the entire human race that.

Secondly the argument is not that it's common therefore it's good. The argument is that it's common therefore it can't be bad. See the difference?

 

[Aardvark154]

I answered this EXACT point a few days ago, from you, and you simply ignored my reply. Now you post it AGAIN. Are you going to ignore my reply again, and then post it AGAIN? Do you think you're credible doing that?

We are not talking about "Murderville" or "Cheaterville" here, we are talking about an activity that is widespread in the entire population of the United States, and almost certainly in the entire human population world wide, so your statement is tantamount to calling the entire United States "Murderville", if you are not actually calling the entire human race that.

Secondly the argument is not that it's common therefore it's good. The argument is that it's common therefore it can't be bad. See the difference?

So hence theft, rape, murder are not bad because after all they are not uncommon.

Second as SW1 already pointed out to you there are some problems with the statistics you are using.

 

[fuji]

So hence theft, rape, murder are not bad because after all they are not uncommon.

Except they are uncommon...

What's in your head????

 

[Aardvark154]

Except they are uncommon...

No, you could argue that they are not common but not successfully that they are uncommon, because save perhaps in Toronto none of the crimes mentioned are "uncommon."

You are playing the Fuji games again - to your mind 30 is better than 25, 35 better than 30 etc. . .

I say again seemingly it is entirely about the numbers for you. If 60 percent of whatever group said if your wife cheats on you, you should behead her, would you agree with them? After all more than half feel that way or have done it.

 

[fuji]

Personally I don't know anyone who has raped or murdered anyone. I knew a guy in school who stole something but he was widely regarded as a misfit.

You can't seriously think these things are common, ordinary, and normal behavior!

 

[JohnLarue]

Hey Fuji:

I noticed you did not reply to a specific statemet I made so I will ask a specifc question

If you are (as you have stated):

a) morally OK with cheating on your wife
b) the self proclaimed dominate one in the relationship
c) absolute that no one else's opinion but yours is relavant when it comes to your morals
d) you would be OK with the fall out if you were caught

Then why do you have to decieve her about this issue?

 

[fuji]

If she knew I was cheating on her she would leave and I would have one fewer sex partner.

Is that obvious? Little slow off the mark today johnny boy?

 

[JohnLarue]

Personally I don't know anyone who has raped or murdered anyone. I knew a guy in school who stole something but he was widely regarded as a misfit.

You can't seriously think these things are common, ordinary, and normal behavior!

I consider him far less a misfit than you
He would probably has the stones to admit to himself he was wrong.

 

[fuji]

I consider him far less a misfit than you
He would probably has the stones to admit to himself he was wrong.

If I did something wrong, so would I.

 

[Aardvark154]

Personally I don't know anyone who has raped or murdered anyone. I knew a guy in school who stole something but he was widely regarded as a misfit.

You can't seriously think these things are common, ordinary, and normal behavior!

Unfortunately yes common; ordinary I would hope not, normal it all depends on the defintion of normal - this was discussed above.

 

[fuji]

Unfortunately yes common; ordinary I would hope not, normal it all depends on the defintion of normal - this was discussed above.

So, to me, when a large fraction of the population is doing something, where by large, I mean a quarter to a half, I think that is pretty strong evidence that it is normal behavior.

Now, I do not believe that a quarter to a half of the population are thieves, and I certainly do not believe a quarter to a half are murderers or rapists!

 

[JohnLarue]

If she knew I was cheating on her she would leave and I would have one fewer sex partner.

Is that obvious? Little slow off the mark today johnny boy?

No, nothing is obvious with twisted logic like yours.

I noticed you gave zero consideration to how it might affect her
As usual your needs are the only thing that matters to you

You should come with a warning label