That sign was put up by some whack jobs, not by the Israel government. Israel has lots of beaches with women in tiny bikinis, and women walking around everywhere in low cut shirts, short skirts, tight pants, whatever. The whack jobs don't go to those places, and they've secluded themselves into one little area and ASKED others to respect that. No law in Israel requires you to respect that--you could organize a "slut walk" through their area and you would have a right to do that--the police would no doubt deploy to contain the violence that would no doubt result--but you would have that right in Israel. You would NOT have that right in Gaza City. Hamas would kill you, if you tried to organize a "slut walk" there.
Most people would probably respect the wishes of the whack jobs, who have made it pretty easy to avoid going through their area really. You don't HAVE to, you can be an asshole if you want, but why would you want to? It's a lot easier to respect their wishes and wear your short skirt and tight pants in your own neighbourhood, and not make a point of parading through theirs.
Except that you do have a right to wear whatever you want in Israel. So you are just flat out wrong.
I would like you to quote where have I said that other middle eastern countries are 'better'? I have accepted that oppression and corruption exists in every country in the Middle East, but you cannot just assume that Israel is the supreme example of religious freedom and a just state. That is plain wrong! Sorry to see that just like MEMRI, basketcase seems to contort words and meanings to suit his statements.Hey fuji, let grog and ali complain about the evils of Israel while staying quiet on how things are in the rest of the middle east (thousands killed in Syria, Libya, the woman arrested for daring to drive). After all, Israel has its vices such as religious freedoms while the rest just have oppression and corruption which are nowhere near as evil.
The funny thing is, that I've studied and learnt Arabic. So I can tell you, that the translation does not match what the person is speaking. I've probably gone through atleast half of MEMRI's website during my masters level research for my paper on Crisis in the Middle East and I could not use the website to cite or source anything because it was plain garbage. Some of the people who I knew used the website held the same view, oh and two of them were ARABIC speaking Jews. And how come if this was indeed a reputable research institute, why does nobody in Israeli universities use it? I was in Tel-Aviv, some years ago and this PhD candidate himself told me about the imminent bias and extreme contortion of words in MEMRI translations. It twists the word and meaning of the sentence completely.Memri is certainly a biased organization ali, but on the other hand, those were original sources materials he was providing you, that just happen to be hosted there.
I think you're just hoping to avoid responding to the actual evidence that basketcase provided that pretty clearly indicts Hamas.
Ali, at the end of the day, his point is still there - it's not hard to find outrageous statements from Hamas. When that pregnant woman was killed Hamas put up a note on their website praising her killers as Palestinian heroes.
You can stamp your feet and shout but there is a very good reason why Canada has labelled Hamas a terrorist organization, and it is not just memri propaganda. Hamas brag about their terrorist acts.
No you didn't. You posted the video to challenge my claim that the Israeli guarantees freedom to its citizens. In that respect you failed, because your video shows the Israeli state upholding the freedoms of that journalist.So you are saying that there are 'whackjobs' in Israel too? Well I like to call them Orthodox Jews because that's who they are. Practicing a fundamental form of their religion is not a crime and they are definitely NOT 'whackjobs'. I posted that video to let people know that fundamentalists exist on both sides.
You've made the false assertion that Israel is somehow equivalent to those countries, when in reality Israeli is a strong democracy that provides firm guarantees of freedom to all of its citizens. None of the other countries in that region come even close. Not only do they persecute non-Muslim citizens routinely, but they don't even provide their Muslim citizens with guaranteed rights as firmly as Israel does.I would like you to quote where have I said that other middle eastern countries are 'better'?
And you try to insult our intelligence.In comparing Israel to those countries you insult democracy.
I've not made any false assertions. I've backed whatever I've said with links that you should've read but obviously you haven't done that because you'd rather stick to your convenient and false statements. I haven't even remotely brought up immigration policies of Israel in relation to Arab citizens. That is an entire different issue. What I was talking about was Israel banning Arab Israeli political parties. Infringing on their rights as Israeli citizens. And ofcourse all this is not me making shit up, go read for yourself.No you didn't. You posted the video to challenge my claim that the Israeli guarantees freedom to its citizens. In that respect you failed, because your video shows the Israeli state upholding the freedoms of that journalist.
And I'm not sure what your laundry list is supposed to represents: "Israel ban on Nakba day? Mordechai Vanunu? Israeli WMD's? State sponsored kidnapping? Arab Israeli citizens considered as second-grade citizens?"
What do I think of that? I think you are making shit up again. Israel has not banned Nakba day, does not sponsor kidnappings, and Arab Israeli citizens are not considered second-grade citizens. I'm sure, though, that you will take some irrelevant detail and misrepresent it as implying those things are true--your position seems to rely extensively on misrepresentation. For example, misrepresenting the behavior of some fundamentalist whack jobs as implying that the Israeli state itself does not respect freedom.
Let's see, will you misrepresent crackdowns of violence on Nakba day as a ban? Will you misrepresent immigration policy or policy in the West Bank or Gaza as if it impinged Israeli Arab citizen's rights? I bet you will. You love those sorts of misrepresentations.
As for Israeli WMD's my concern is with countries that might turn their WMD's over to terrorists, such as Iran or Pakistan. I have no concern whatsoever that Israeli WMD's would wind up in the wrong hands. I'm generally against proliferation of nuclear weapons, but I don't really see a big problem here. Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism. Israel is not.
You've made the false assertion that Israel is somehow equivalent to those countries, when in reality Israeli is a strong democracy that provides firm guarantees of freedom to all of its citizens. None of the other countries in that region come even close. Not only do they persecute non-Muslim citizens routinely, but they don't even provide their Muslim citizens with guaranteed rights as firmly as Israel does.
In comparing Israel to those countries you insult democracy.
Correction. The video shows a country where you need police protection if you go into an orthodox area with the intention of disturbing shit. Plainly the camera man was toting along something highly offensive to people in that area. There was clearly something accompanying him that offended everyone there--he never did show us what it was.The video shows a country where you need police protection if you go in orthodox areas
Yes you did. Your references fail to back up your statements, which are distortions and misrepresentations. For example you said that Nakba day was "banned" when in reality all that was banned were certain violent protests. You wrote that Arabs in Israel are second class citizens when in fact they have the same fundamental rights as anyone else--in fact, Israel even goes so far as to support their Sharia law, something even Canada does not do.I've not made any false assertions.
Ah, the old 'invisible offensive item' defense.Correction. The video shows a country where you need police protection if you go into an orthodox area with the intention of disturbing shit. Plainly the camera man was toting along something highly offensive to people in that area. There was clearly something accompanying him that offended everyone there--he never did show us what it was.
And you try to insult our intelligence.
The video shows a country where you need police protection if you go in orthodox areas, a country where synagogues and mosques are torched. A country where the laws may say they support freedom of religion, but police action says otherwise, as shown in the video.
He plainly was doing something those people found highly offensive but we never are shown what. He was obviously there to disturb people, and you should be fair and acknowledge that the israeli police defended his right to do that.Ah, the old 'invisible offensive item' defense.
Excellent use of contradictory terms as well. As in, 'there was clearly something' offensive, but 'he never did show us'. How would you reach that argument? The only way I can assume is that 'clearly' you refuse to accept results different from your preconceived perceptions.
This all just backs up that study that shows that Israel has the same amount of freedom as Somalia and Afghanistan.
You're free to worship whatever you want, as long as you have a gun or security forces to back yourself up.
Feel free to translate the arabic yourself.I find it hilarious when people quote from memritv.org, ...
Yet you only have seen fit to comment against Israel. Your silence on Syria is deafening....
I would like you to quote where have I said that other middle eastern countries are 'better'? I have accepted that oppression and corruption exists in every country in the Middle East, but you cannot just assume that Israel is the supreme example of religious freedom and a just state. That is plain wrong! Sorry to see that just like MEMRI, basketcase seems to contort words and meanings to suit his statements.
So maybe you want to actually translate the clips I posted for us and explain why the MEMRI translation is so false.The funny thing is, that I've studied and learnt Arabic. So I can tell you, that the translation does not match what the person is speaking. I've probably gone through atleast half of MEMRI's website during my masters level research for my paper on Crisis in the Middle East and I could not use the website to cite or source anything because it was plain garbage. ...
I can simply answer that. Israel has absolutely not banned Nakba day (and you either knowingly are lying or your claim to expertise in the Middle East is inflated).Why do you keep going off on a tangent? You haven't responded about "Israel ban on Nakba day? ...
It is actually just as easy to walk into any neighborhood in Toronto with a camera crew and get the same reaction when you intentionally ask questions seeking to get that reaction (slightly different but have you ever seen Rick Mercer and Talking to Americans?). The police did what they should have done. The guy on film was be legally allowed to ask those questions and the residents were legally allowed to gather and yell at the guy. An undemocratic country would have thrown people in jail for doing so yet all that happened here was the guy was escorted away from the confrontation he was seeking.And you try to insult our intelligence.
The video shows a country where you need police protection if you go in orthodox areas, a ...
From the link you posted...I can simply answer that. Israel has absolutely not banned Nakba day (and you either knowingly are lying or your claim to expertise in the Middle East is inflated).
What they did was chosen not to give state funds to any agency's promotion of Nakba day.
http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/03/23/3086536/knesset-passes-nakba-law
I think it's is a understandable decision because unfortunately, Nakba Day has been so politicized that it is not a commemoration of the Arabs who fled Israel and have been essentially kept in captivity by their Arab neighbours but instead has simply become an attack against Israel's existence. I wouldn't sponsor this law but I can see why the government of Israel doesn't want its own tax dollars spent in attempts to delegitimize it.
Why don't you start a thread on Syria and I'll open up about that issue? We are talking about Israel and Palestine here. What have you been smoking?Yet you only have seen fit to comment against Israel. Your silence on Syria is deafening.
Why don't you open a new thread to vent your anger about that? Lets talk about that over there. This thread isn't talking about Muslim nations. In any case, my comment above about Syria should at least make you smile. C'mon?Meanwhile you wholesale deny or ignore that extreme atrocities committed in Muslim nations. You can't even name ONE Muslim nation that comes anywhere close to offering the level of rights to ANY of its citizens that Israel extends to ALL of its citizens.
Even if I were to translate those videos for you, I don't think you are going to believe me because you seem hell-bent on proving MEMRI as an authentic institute. The criticism of MEMRI is widespread. I'll post the criticism here and if you are in tune with well-known media research institutes then you'll recognize popular and well-educated people criticizing MEMRI for bias, selectivity and translation inaccuracies. I'll give you an example here:So maybe you want to actually translate the clips I posted for us and explain why the MEMRI translation is so false.
I am at a disadvantage not speaking or reading Arabic, Hebrew, or anything else besides English (and maybe pretend in French) but I posted those clips specifically because the Arabic is clearly audible for anyone who disputes it. If the translations are wrong, please step up and prove it.
That's a fallacy.In a Muslim country a women would be stoned for dressing immodestly.
