drug testing to get on welfare.

[simon482]

florida just passed a state law that makes it mandatory to get tested for drugs and pass before you get on welfare.

i think it is a great idea and take it one step further, piss test every week to make sure your not just getting cleaned up to get the free cash then going back out again. you fail the test, you lose the cash.

should be a law for every state and province.

 

[afterhours]

florida just passed a state law that makes it mandatory to get tested for drugs and pass before you get on welfare.

i think it is a great idea and take it one step further, piss test every week to make sure your not just getting cleaned up to get the free cash then going back out again. you fail the test, you lose the cash.

should be a law for every state and province.

and adding tobacco or alcohol or junk food to their list of drugs would likely lead to a revolt and the fall of the government

 

[simon482]

adding tobacco or alcohol or junk food to the list of drugs would likely lead to a revolt

i think people would riot if that happened. this is good for the freaks that want the real hardworking citizens to dump tax money into their drug dealers pockets. i think it is a great first step.

 

[SS Sharla]

I was just discussing this idea with someone the other day. I think it is a great idea but does have a few downfalls. How will they regualte the people on drugs. Shelters will be filled with junkies, even moreso than usual and that will make it harder for mother's in crisis to take their children there, and expose young teens who run away and can't get permanent housing to a pretty risky environment.

Getting sober is not as easy as just wanting a paycheck.

While I don't think people on drugs should be able to collect welfare, I don't know what the solution is to what to do with them. Do you build more detox shelters? Force them to live on the street? There will also be an increase in children removed from parents, because if they get tested to get money and come back posititve then you can't let them parent or parent with no income for a home. Foster care homes are already short on spaces and that will back up the court systems with parents having their right negotiated.

Not a simple solution by any means. Would love to see a full article about the steps they are taking.

I discussed this with my Dad and Brother In Law once and my dad made a good point - "take the basic necessities away from the criminals and they will show up at your door to take it back - in the middle of the night." Desperate people do despreate things, when put in desperate situations. I think the problem will become much more difficult and visible - How will tax payers like that? how will drugged out crack heads panhandling infront of their business (instead of their crack apartments) help taxpayer's businesses?

 

[simon482]

SS

this was just something i took from a close friend that lives in florida and he said it just went into effect. not that i was looking at an article. i have to say that i agree with what you are saying about the down sides but you have to think if they don't have the money to buy the drugs then they can't do drugs, then flip the coin and think crime will increase with break and enters and mugging. so yeah there should be a support program of some sort to help with the people that want to get cleaned up but again flip the coin and if they wanted to get help they would have by now. double edged sword i guess, the state is tired of paying for drug addicts to get drugs but now they have to pay for the kids of the drug addicts that have no where to go.

then you get into the crack whore street level prostitution and wonder how many people will be putting their kids out and whatnot. it is good but if not careful it could turn bad.

 

[picketfence]

florida just passed a state law that makes it mandatory to get tested for drugs and pass before you get on welfare.

i think it is a great idea and take it one step further, piss test every week to make sure your not just getting cleaned up to get the free cash then going back out again. you fail the test, you lose the cash.

should be a law for every state and province.

That's fine, just don't bitch when crime in your neighborhood goes up because they have to resort to crime to manage and "putting them all is jail" is not the cheaper solution.What do you think is going to happen when you take welfare from the marginalized who may have addiction problems. Basic psychology tells us they are not going to go out and go to school and get good jobs, but going to go to a lower level of basic survival. The result of welfare denial will be more crime and higher cost to the police, court and prison systems. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[afterhours]

then you get into the crack whore street level prostitution and wonder how many people will be putting their kids out and whatnot. it is good but if not careful it could turn bad.

crack whore prostitution is good though
whoever has tits and vagina in working order should not be a leach on society

 

[SS Sharla]

crack whore prostitution is good though
whoever has tits and vagina in working order should not be a leach on society

Yep but when you don't have welfare to buy condoms - then you are just a Diseased Crack Whore Prostititue . . . ewwwwww.

 

[simon482]

That's fine, just don't bitch when crime in your neighborhood goes up because they have to resort to crime to manage and "putting them all is jail" is not the cheaper solution.What do you think is going to happen when you take welfare from the marginalized who may have addiction problems. Basic psychology tells us they are not going to go out and go to school and get good jobs, but going to go to a lower level of basic survival. The result of welfare denial will be more crime and higher cost to the police, court and prison systems. Be careful what you wish for.

there is no doubt they will turn to crime and i hope they are ready for it and i hope that a few states do it and can perfect the system then pass it on to other states and hopefully we can adopt the program up here as well. after the bugs are worked out of course.

 

[picketfence]

there is no doubt they will turn to crime and i hope they are ready for it and i hope that a few states do it and can perfect the system then pass it on to other states and hopefully we can adopt the program up here as well. after the bugs are worked out of course.

except it will not happen, they want a quick fix to save money . Short term gain-long term cost. The overall cost of having people with addictions becoming criminals are much higher than one would would think. eg. what if the property values in your neighborhood went down because crime went up??. And what are they testing for ? pot? how about the fact that perscreption drugs are becoming a huge problem. Remember, oxyc's is considered hillbilly herion. This problem that you and other seam to want easily sweap away is a problem, as ss pointed out, one of basic survival

 

[simon482]

except it will not happen, they want a quick fix to save money . Short term gain-long term cost. The overall cost of having people with addictions becoming criminals are much higher than one would would think. eg. what if the property values in your neighborhood went down because crime went up??. And what are they testing for ? pot? how about the fact that perscreption drugs are becoming a huge problem. Remember, oxyc's is considered hillbilly herion. This problem that you and other seam to want easily sweap away is a problem, as ss pointed out, one of basic survival

i would have never started this thread if i knew you were gonna have good points and make me doubt my own theories. damn you, damn you right to hell lol.

 

[Prim0]

Let me play devils advocate a little (or shit starter if you prefer).

Why should we let the idea that addicts will turn to crime stop us from doing the right thing and cutting them off from the public purse. How do we know that many wont just whither away and die (problem solved). Why do those of us who've managed to stay off of drugs, make good decisions about our lives and work hard to make our ends meet have to pay some kind of ransom to keep these losers off our doorstep? Why do we even have to pay to keep them alive? You can cry out about their circumstances but there are plenty of success stories about individuals who've pulled themselves out of the same circumstances and are living productive lives. Let's also think about the fact that many people would probably be willing to donate to non-profit, well-run, efficient charities to help people in these situations if it wasn't for all of the waste of putting that same money through the government programs. Maybe it's my biology background...I just can't see a herd of wildebeests run the way we act. Imagine the herd having to sacrifice some of the healthiest, strongest, fastest individuals to lions so that the frail, weak, sick, old individuals could slow down the herd! Maybe I'm heartless...maybe I've seen the struggles my family made in order to pull themselves up out of poverty...without government checks all along the way. Just hard work and good decision making....even when it was difficult.

[/devil's advocacy]

 

[anon1]

^^^ because we ain't a herd of wild animals (hopefully)

 

[irlandais9000]

Drug testing equipment manufacturers love this idea. If they had there way, everyone would be required to have a drug test daily. It's easy for the public to support drug tests for someone else, but anyone who thinks drug testing will not be expanded continuously to an ever larger population is hopelessly naive.

 

[rld]

Let me play devils advocate a little (or shit starter if you prefer).

Why should we let the idea that addicts will turn to crime stop us from doing the right thing and cutting them off from the public purse. How do we know that many wont just whither away and die (problem solved). Why do those of us who've managed to stay off of drugs, make good decisions about our lives and work hard to make our ends meet have to pay some kind of ransom to keep these losers off our doorstep? Why do we even have to pay to keep them alive? You can cry out about their circumstances but there are plenty of success stories about individuals who've pulled themselves out of the same circumstances and are living productive lives. Let's also think about the fact that many people would probably be willing to donate to non-profit, well-run, efficient charities to help people in these situations if it wasn't for all of the waste of putting that same money through the government programs. Maybe it's my biology background...I just can't see a herd of wildebeests run the way we act. Imagine the herd having to sacrifice some of the healthiest, strongest, fastest individuals to lions so that the frail, weak, sick, old individuals could slow down the herd! Maybe I'm heartless...maybe I've seen the struggles my family made in order to pull themselves up out of poverty...without government checks all along the way. Just hard work and good decision making....even when it was difficult.

[/devil's advocacy]

Last time I checked I was not a wildebeast.

But to counter your devil's advocacy with a satanic suggestion, I recall the line used for convoys taking supplies to Russia in WWII through the deadly North Atlantic which essentially was:

The convoy moves at the speed of its slowest member.

 

[simon482]

i have to take drug testing to get a job is it not fair for them to have drug testing to get free money.

 

[rld]

i have to take drug testing to get a job is it not fair for them to have drug testing to get free money.

I don't follow your logic. The vast majority of jobs do not require drug testing...

 

[simon482]

I don't follow your logic. The vast majority of jobs do not require drug testing...

there are quite a few and if you plan on crossing the border as a truck driver you have to go get tested every 3 months. not sure about other jobs that involve border crossing but my job it is a mandatory.

 

[chiller_boy]

Let me play devils advocate a little (or shit starter if you prefer).

Why should we let the idea that addicts will turn to crime stop us from doing the right thing and cutting them off from the public purse. How do we know that many wont just whither away and die (problem solved). Why do those of us who've managed to stay off of drugs, make good decisions about our lives and work hard to make our ends meet have to pay some kind of ransom to keep these losers off our doorstep? Why do we even have to pay to keep them alive? You can cry out about their circumstances but there are plenty of success stories about individuals who've pulled themselves out of the same circumstances and are living productive lives. Let's also think about the fact that many people would probably be willing to donate to non-profit, well-run, efficient charities to help people in these situations if it wasn't for all of the waste of putting that same money through the government programs. Maybe it's my biology background...I just can't see a herd of wildebeests run the way we act. Imagine the herd having to sacrifice some of the healthiest, strongest, fastest individuals to lions so that the frail, weak, sick, old individuals could slow down the herd! Maybe I'm heartless...maybe I've seen the struggles my family made in order to pull themselves up out of poverty...without government checks all along the way. Just hard work and good decision making....even when it was difficult.

[/devil's advocacy]

And why is it that we suspect people on welfare are addicts? And, BTW, what drugs are we speaking of - are alcohol and pot included? If the argument is that these are public monies then why not test all college students whom get public money grants(of any sort, including tuition loans). Ill bet you get more hits with college students than welfare recipents.

of course Florida is doing this at a great time - when unemployment is rampant. Sounds like a boon to the testing industry(apperantly the governors wife owns one, but this story is murky like everything in Florida politics.

They are going to randomly test government employees as well. I wonder if you took a pot hit on monday and got tested on a tuesday you could be fired. Oh well, you just fall into the welfare group so you can be clean before the test.

What an idiotic idea.

 

[fuji]

there are quite a few and if you plan on crossing the border as a truck driver you have to go get tested every 3 months. not sure about other jobs that involve border crossing but my job it is a mandatory.

Because if you shoot some heroin before getting behind the wheel of an 18 wheeler you could kill a lot of people. In must other jobs if you fuck up you can be just fired and no harm done.

Florida will now face an increase of crime and more expensive prisons, fewer addicts getting the help they need, and money wasted on a testing regime that offers little value.

I am not against drug testing people on welfare but a positive test should mean diversion to rehab rather than being cut off, and alcohol testing should be included, while pot should be excluded. In other words the goal should be to help people quit behaviors that make them unemployable, not pretty moralistic judgmental bullshit.