Raccoon attack

[oldjones]

My experience is some 15 years old, but the HavaHeart trap cost me less than a hundred bucks; I caught six raccoons over a coupla weeks and re-located them. Never had to use it again.

Downtown East TO, backing onto a ravine and creek system, FWIW.

 

[KBear]

Whops , from the article the cost is $375 - $1,000 to remove raccoons.

Ok, so you guys will trap them and move them up the street to become someone else’s problem, or run them up north and abandon them to starve to death.

 

[GG2]

My experience is some 15 years old, but the HavaHeart trap cost me less than a hundred bucks; I caught six raccoons over a coupla weeks and re-located them. Never had to use it again.

Downtown East TO, backing onto a ravine and creek system, FWIW.

Just because you've never had a chronic raccoon problem doesn't mean that nobody else in the world does.

 

[Narg]

Thought this was a pretty interesting thread. Both sides have some impassioned comments. That said, the facts are not really in dispute. Beating a racoon to death with a shovel is against the law. The law was written to protect racoons in Toronto because far more Toronto residents think the critters are cute than actually have to deal with them. The majority has spoken. The law is unlikely to change. Those of you complaining that you should be allowed to snuff racoons in a variety of ways can certainly continue to complain, but should realize that there is nothing you can do to change the law.

As for me, if I had a racoon problem, I would want it dealt with as quickly and efficiently as possible, regardless of the animals suffering, as long as I did not have to witness (or hear) the racoon's death throws. Out of sight is out of mind. I feel the same way about the meat I buy at the butchers. So long as the slaughter of food animals occurs out of my sight and hearing, I'm good.

 

[skipstagger]

the guy probably has an entire collection of guns in his basement cellar. Sniper guns, handguns, machineguns.

and he actually gets a thrill and genuinely enjoys killing.

id wager 50 bucks this is a true fact.

He is obviously baiting you.

 

[GPIDEAL]

In the Star article, it says it cost something like $1,000 - $4,000 to get rid of the raccoons. I would really like to know if you would spend $4,000 to get ride of the raccoon, or if you would kill them? How many times would you spend the $1,000 per raccoon to get rid of it before you cracked and picked up a shovel? What would you do in this guys place with this ongoing problem?

You say he was too cheap, but not everyone has extra thousands kicking around to spend. Many people have a hard time meeting rent or mortgage payments. We don’t know the guys financial situation.

The mistake the guy made was not thinking forward, and doing what he had to do quickly and quietly. He may have lived in the city all his life, and this is the first time he has had to kill something.

edit: whops from the article the cost is $375 - $1,000 to remove raccoons.

It depends what solution you want. I don't think it's that expensive for most problems.

Sometimes, a simple one way door at the location of the entrance to your attack will prevent re-entry.

Most of the time, it's a trap.

A lot of the times, it's securing your garbage, putting cayenne pepper, etc. etc.

I've had a bat problem on a rental farm house - bats are a real problem. They used the trap door solution and we re-boarded.

 

[oldjones]

Thought this was a pretty interesting thread. Both sides have some impassioned comments. That said, the facts are not really in dispute. Beating a racoon to death with a shovel is against the law. The law was written to protect racoons in Toronto because far more Toronto residents think the critters are cute than actually have to deal with them. The majority has spoken. The law is unlikely to change. Those of you complaining that you should be allowed to snuff racoons in a variety of ways can certainly continue to complain, but should realize that there is nothing you can do to change the law.

As for me, if I had a racoon problem, I would want it dealt with as quickly and efficiently as possible, regardless of the animals suffering, as long as I did not have to witness (or hear) the racoon's death throws. Out of sight is out of mind. I feel the same way about the meat I buy at the butchers. So long as the slaughter of food animals occurs out of my sight and hearing, I'm good.

Just one cavil: The anti-cruelty law was written to protect all animals, not just raccoons. If you ant to beat other creatures to dath with a shovel, stick to insects, reptiles and such. And get it right with the first blow.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Whops , from the article the cost is $375 - $1,000 to remove raccoons.

Ok, so you guys will trap them and move them up the street to become someone else’s problem, or run them up north and abandon them to starve to death.

More likely they won't starve to death. Raccoons don't exclusively live off garbage in the city. Worms, snails, etc. etc. They can find this in the wild.

 

[oldjones]

Part of the problem is that we 'city' folk believe we are too civilized to kill anything.

I won't be butchering a raccoon, but at the same time we all have a point where we will break. The raccoon got under this man's skin, and he killed it with a shovel. But it is still a raccoon and he does not deserve the treatment he got. We all say we won't kill, but are you sure? If someone came into your house, raped your daughter, killed your wife/husband, and you have a slight opportunity to kill the attacker, would you? I would. No doubt. I might even torture the SOB. Does that now make me a mass murderer as these bleeding hearts suggest?

Western society has lost track of the rights of humans vs animals. Animals are 'tortured' daily in the testing of cosmetics, skin products, etc. They are killed for the leather we wear on our feet. The crocodile skin bags (??), the wallets, purses, etc, made from animals. Are any of these animals eaten? Some are, some aren't. But we actually see one of them getting killed (or hear about it, since most, if not all, of us weren't there) and oh my, somebody put a stop to this barbarism. We kill people right and centre as a 'civilized' society, but no - don't kill those pests! They are way too cute.

My rights as a person supercede those of an animal, and I WILL kill to protect myself and my family. It will not be easy, and I have never killed before, but if threatened, I will. So, before we say that we can't bear to kill anything, we should seriously think about it. If (or is it when?) Toronto gets so many rats, mice, raccoons, bears, roaches, and other vermin in every corner, garbage can, restaurant and house, will the bleeding hearts be defending the rights of the animals, or start whacking them themselves??

No. He failed to kill it with a shovel; He maimed it. It was the animal's screams of anguish that aroused the neighbours and the cops while he continued to flail at it without useful effect, but breaking at least one leg. If the guy actually possessed the brains that supposedly make us superior to animals, the raccoon wouldn't have known what hit him, and no one ever would have known.

We all choose to break or bend all sorts of laws all the time. But they exist for a reason. Guys who swing shovels at living things just because they're mad need to learn how to behave. Maybe a taste of his own harsh methods will work on this bozo. But I bet not.

The first animal we need to control is the human animal. That's what's at the root of this incident: a human gone amuck.

 

[N1ghth4wk]

No. He failed to kill it with a shovel; He maimed it. It was the animal's screams of anguish that aroused the neighbours and the cops while he continued to flail at it without useful effect, but breaking at least one leg. If the guy actually possessed the brains that supposedly make us superior to animals, the raccoon wouldn't have known what hit him, and no one ever would have known.

We all choose to break or bend all sorts of laws all the time. But they exist for a reason. Guys who swing shovels at living things just because they're mad need to learn how to behave. Maybe a taste of his own harsh methods will work on this bozo. But I bet not.

The first animal we need to control is the human animal. That's what's at the root of this incident: a human gone amuck.

Right... Let's take him to City Hall and have the Toronto Police beat him to death with a shovel! Where does the lunacy stop!!

 

[blackrock13]

Whops , from the article the cost is $375 - $1,000 to remove raccoons.

Ok, so you guys will trap them and move them up the street to become someone else’s problem, or run them up north and abandon them to starve to death.

One thing I've never seen in all my years in the bush was a a dead raccoon from starvation.

 

[blackrock13]

Right... Let's take him to City Hall and have the Toronto Police beat him to death with a shovel! Where does the lunacy stop!!

Nope, of course not. Somebody from PETA would do it better and with purpose.

 

[stinkynuts]

Where should one draw the line?

We can all agree (I hope) that smashing a pesky mosquito to pieces is acceptable. And even roaches and flies. Rats? I have a hard time with that. Certainly nothing closer to us than that.

So the question becomes: why is acceptable to smash a fly or mosquito to pieces but not a raccoon? The answer is not easy. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that they are closer to us in the family tree. But for me, it just has to do with the fact that racoons are more complex than flies or other insects. They have feelings and can certainly feel pain, and as a human, I am wired to relate to their pain...

 

[N1ghth4wk]

Where should one draw the line?

We can all agree (I hope) that smashing a pesky mosquito to pieces is acceptable. And even roaches and flies. Rats? I have a hard time with that. Certainly nothing closer to us than that.

So the question becomes: why is acceptable to smash a fly or mosquito to pieces but not a raccoon? The answer is not easy. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that they are closer to us in the family tree. But for me, it just has to do with the fact that racoons are more complex than flies or other insects. They have feelings and can certainly feel pain, and as a human, I am wired to relate to their pain...

Where is that line? That is the question and the crux of this issue as I see it. My point is that if we can agree that the killing of this raccoon was at least near the line for most people (for some it is over the line, for others it is not, but for most I think it is near), then should this man have been treated the way he has been treated. This guy has been treated the same way that IMF guy was treated for attempted rape (which is clearly and unquestionably beyond the line). Does that really make sense? I can see him being fined, but criminal charges? That's too much.

The reason this has happened to the man is because there is this ridiculous law on the books that really shouldn't be there. But, just because the law is there, it does not mean it needs to be not enforced. We have laws against J-walking and playing road hockey on the road. These laws aren't enforced. There are probably thousands of other laws on the books that are not enforced. So why is this law enforced. The fact that the TPS responded so quickly and so forcefully to this makes me wonder if they don't have anything better to do. Makes me think that they should have no problem reducing their force by 500.

And why isn't the neighbour being charged for abusing our 911 emergency resources. If he called 911 because kids were playing road hockey in front of his house, would he not be charged? Or if he called because he saw his neighbour laying out mice traps, would he not be charged? Why is he not here?

 

[Rockslinger]

There are probably thousands of other laws on the books that are not enforced. So why is this law enforced.

Because Dong is Asian, just like that shopkeeper who was arrested for apprehending a shoplifter. The charges against Dong will be thrown out of court if there is a competent judge sitting.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Where is that line? That is the question and the crux of this issue as I see it. My point is that if we can agree that the killing of this raccoon was at least near the line for most people (for some it is over the line, for others it is not, but for most I think it is near), then should this man have been treated the way he has been treated. This guy has been treated the same way that IMF guy was treated for attempted rape (which is clearly and unquestionably beyond the line). Does that really make sense? I can see him being fined, but criminal charges? That's too much.

The reason this has happened to the man is because there is this ridiculous law on the books that really shouldn't be there. But, just because the law is there, it does not mean it needs to be not enforced. We have laws against J-walking and playing road hockey on the road. These laws aren't enforced. There are probably thousands of other laws on the books that are not enforced. So why is this law enforced. The fact that the TPS responded so quickly and so forcefully to this makes me wonder if they don't have anything better to do. Makes me think that they should have no problem reducing their force by 500.

And why isn't the neighbour being charged for abusing our 911 emergency resources. If he called 911 because kids were playing road hockey in front of his house, would he not be charged? Or if he called because he saw his neighbour laying out mice traps, would he not be charged? Why is he not here?

He effectively was torturing an animal which is more heinous than any of the other punishable offences you cited. It also caused a disturbance of the peace.

So if the TPS make an arrest or write a ticket for something that isn't usually enforced the odd time, that's reason to reduce their numbers by 500? That's absurd.

Sounds like you'll think of any argument to justify whacking a mammal to death that's legally protected against cruelty.

 

[oldjones]

Exactly. Whatever the wisdom and non-wisdom about raccoons and animal control in the city that has been posted here and elsewhere, this is an apparent instance of cruelty to animals which is the law under which the man was arrested.

While we humans may often be brutal and thoughtlessly hurtful, pretty much all human cultures decry cruelty. And for those who just can't let go of their conviction that the only good raccoon is a dead one, maybe you can see this guy's method was stupidly inefficient. The more so when the weight of the law fell on him.

 

[KBear]

...maybe you can see this guy's method was stupidly inefficient. The more so when the weight of the law fell on him.

Can agree with that, how to get rid of them is a problem.

The raccoons can make a mess of the corn fields, barns etc in the country. Should let the country folk know if they have raccoon problem they can trap them and drop them off in the city. Also catch a movie, have diner, make a day of it.

 

[T.O.tourist]

Can agree with that, how to get rid of them is a problem.

The raccoons can make a mess of the corn fields, barns etc in the country. Should let the country folk know if they have raccoon problem they can trap them and drop them off in the city. Also catch a movie, have diner, make a day of it.

Who would bother with the expenses of buying a trap and driving to Toronto?
Ammo for a .22 is pennies a shot.

 

[KBear]

Who would bother with the expenses of buying a trap and driving to Toronto?
Ammo for a .22 is pennies a shot.

The farmers would not sit in the field at night hoping to spot a raccoon, they use the wire cage live traps or let dogs run in the field and chase the raccoons up a tree. Once caught expect then they are shot. Was told they are good eating.

But this could be an idea to bring tourist to the city, bring your raccoon, have diner, see a show.