About dating today's young women: a young male's perspective

[castaniabrucciatta]

The good guy/bad boy thing just frustrates me. I could never understand it.

I'm average looking, fit, have a good job, can be a blast to be with and most women have told me that I have a great dick, too.

I just don't have 'game' and have never been the 'bad boy'. I could never have sex with most of the SPs I've seen if it were outside of the hobby.

Money is the great equalizer.

CB

 

[mur11]

Listen, to all the bitter assholes out there (GG2 I'm looking at you in particular) it's not the 'badboy' status that attracts most women. Sure there's a particular kind of women that gets off on being truly treated like shit and abused in whatever form, but that's a significant minority. The one quality that binds the so-called 'assholes', the musicians, the bikers, the drug dealers, even the slackers with the corporate executives in terms of appeal to women, is confidence. That's the one link. Women are attracted to guys who are confident and comfortable with themselves in whatever profession or role they are in. 9 times of 10, when you hear about a so-called 'nice guy' getting fucked over, maybe he's not a drug dealer, or abusive, and he might have a decent job, but he lacks confidence. He's a pushover. And I'm not subscribing to the Neatherdnal thinking of guys like Fuji who equate manliness with cheating and lying, but I'm talking about guys who aren't going to be defined by their SO, and if their SO is treating them badly and taking advantage, they speak up, instead of handing her a blank cheque. It's confidence, and being happy with who you are. The problem is that it's very difficult to fake this confidence, so if you don't have it, it's not something that a few drinks or a fat bank account will solve. It's organic
But that's it. Girls, of all colours, hate desperate guys, and they are very good at sniffing that out.

 

[GG2]

This is textbook bitterness and dysfunction in no sort of disguise. It seems to me that you are in need of clinical, psychological assistance.

I'm sure your reply will further confirm your decaying mental condition.

You take cues from actors. What more needs to be said. Go watch another film starring Meryl Streep for more insights about life. lol

 

[GG2]

Listen, to all the bitter assholes out there (GG2 I'm looking at you in particular) it's not the 'badboy' status that attracts most women. Sure there's a particular kind of women that gets off on being truly treated like shit and abused in whatever form, but that's a significant minority. The one quality that binds the so-called 'assholes', the musicians, the bikers, the drug dealers, even the slackers with the corporate executives in terms of appeal to women, is confidence. That's the one link. Women are attracted to guys who are confident and comfortable with themselves in whatever profession or role they are in. 9 times of 10, when you hear about a so-called 'nice guy' getting fucked over, maybe he's not a drug dealer, or abusive, and he might have a decent job, but he lacks confidence. He's a pushover. And I'm not subscribing to the Neatherdnal thinking of guys like Fuji who equate manliness with cheating and lying, but I'm talking about guys who aren't going to be defined by their SO, and if their SO is treating them badly and taking advantage, they speak up, instead of handing her a blank cheque. It's confidence, and being happy with who you are. The problem is that it's very difficult to fake this confidence, so if you don't have it, it's not something that a few drinks or a fat bank account will solve. It's organic
But that's it. Girls, of all colours, hate desperate guys, and they are very good at sniffing that out.

I'm sure a lack of confidence is true for some. However, successful men like castaniabrucciatta don't lack confidence. Have you ever watched that show The Millionaire Matchmaker? Lots of confident wealthy men that can't get a date. SPs have sessions with guys like this all the time whether they know it or not. These men have trouble getting a woman because beyond the world of business, they lack the social skills and understanding of female behavior necessary for success. They don't have 'game'. They're among the 60% of men who, prior to modern capitalist democratic societies, wouldn't have any offspring. You're right that they're desperate for pussy and interaction with females but it comes from their inability to understand women or their unwillingness to play the 'game'.

I know what most women want, and I know it better than women do. Why? Because I'm a man and I've had my eyes open since I was born figuring out how to get pussy every which way I can. Among the qualities women look for in men are good looks (lots of variability here), somebody that treats them good and indifferent (if not sometimes bad), somebody 'exciting' (engaged in drama, unpredictability, somebody they can't hold down - they have to pursue), physically and mentally strong/dominant (it's evolution baby; they want to feel protected by their man and want to be submissive to him), somebody with money (dirty or clean money; money becomes a bigger factor with age, but a nice car and connections gets you lots of tang as a teenager if you have some of the other qualities listed), somebody who is simple (she doesn't know or care to talk about the stock market; if she wants to hear 'deep' or 'complex' discussion it usually means she wants conversation in the form of empty pop culture references about how we're all equal or similar garbage; women are just older girls, they want to gossip or talk about bullshit all day long), and somebody who is incomplete (she can 'fix him' somehow - maybe it's that motherly instinct of sorts). The exceptionally low rent/class women often find themselves in outright abusive relationships and appear to prefer it that way. These are only some of the qualities. I've listed them for the benefit of others. A guy with a decent job who isn't running around acting like a fool is boring to many women, hence the quantity of pussy a guy like this will see is small in comparison. If you're fortunate enough to find that woman that actually appreciates a good man, hold onto her.

Collective male intuition has told us that women like 'bad boys' (see above for a general definition). A study claiming to support this belief was posted earlier in the thread. I'm a man with lots of objective experience and I also come to the same conclusion. Say what you will, but I know I've got my head on straight.

 

[winstar]

It's been a while, but I'll weigh in on this.

It's different here. The more times I visit Toronto, the more this is apparent. Judging from all the similarities of experiences about how hard it is to date girls in Toronto etc. etc. etc. When you travel, you realize that the reality of dating here need not apply elsewhere. Compared to the other places I have been to, dating in Toronto is simply absurd. Really. And most of the girls here are simply clueless as to what makes a guy tick. Turn it around. Most girls here don't take the time to find out what really turns a guy on or what he finds attractive. If they did, they would know it's not just boobs and tits, but the proper attitude as well.

For example, if a girl thinks about what you like to do (I'm not talking sexually here, although this is also important), what shows you like to watch, what makes you feel good etc. and takes the time to do them, that shows a proper attitude. If she does them without making you feel like you have to bankroll your relationship just to keep her, and approaches your relationship with the sole purpose of taking care of you, that's the proper attitude. That's not an equality issue. This is an issue of respect and interest. I have seen the difference. The thing is, girls here are too self-centred, egotistical, and conceited to think about pleasing a guy. Which is why we pay for a professional.

When I have been outside of Canada, I have noticed that in the places where you would expect the girls to be more stuck up than Toronto, this wasn't the case. In fact the girls were so nice, that I had a hard time initially adjusting as I wasn't used to all the attention. And from girls that are WAYYYYYYYY hotter than the girls in Toronto. By a large margin. And they were actually very nice and the experience was very positive. Its not that the girls in Toronto are hot that they can be stuck up, it's that they mistakenly think that there is no one better, and that they are the best, and feel that they can behave anyway they want to towards a guy. Very similar to a spoiled child, actually. I think we have a generation of girls who are nothing more than spoiled children with a false sense of entitlement. Unfortunately, most guys are stuck here and have no alternatives, so they have to put up with that attitude. Or pay for it.

When you travel, you see the dysfunction with dating here clearly, and realize that no, it isn't the same everywhere else, and yes, Toronto girls don't make the best dates/girlfriends. Outside of Toronto, I had the best sex I ever had, with someone who would destroy most of the girls here in terms of looks, and better than the highest end SP I have seen here (and I've seen them all). She was simply gorgeous! AND smart. Extremely bright (she was with me, so she'd have to be), and AMAZING in bed. Truly spectacular. At the same time, there were literally six girls who were all hot, in their late teens/early twenties (college girls) who were all throwing themselves at me, treating me like a king. I DONT consider myself a player or anything like that. It made me realize quickly the difference between what is here and what is out there. I don't date anymore in Toronto. Waste of my time and money. I actually laugh everyday I walk in the downtown core and see some girl with the sunglasses on and that expression on her face that she is better than everyone else. Or the female administrative assistants who all cheat on their husbands and boyfriends and THINK they are actually hot.

My advice is, if you're in Toronto, stick with the MP's and SP's. Pay your fee, get your experience, and manage it with everything else going on in your life. Spending your time and money on a girl in Toronto is just not worth it anymore.

On a side note: There is a book on the Girl Power movement, and how it all relates to dating and the way men are being treated today. And why it seems to be a generational thing. I think the article I read about the book, describes how during the time of the Spice Girls and when Britney Spears was just becoming famous (around 1999) this is when it all seemed to take off. And most of the girls sucked it up at the time. That's why any man younger than 40 probably has to deal with this stupid "I am entitled" behaviour. I can't recall the title of the book, the author is female and actually argues against the girl power movement, as it is actually against the concepts of feminism (i.e. equality), and alienates men in the process. The movement disguises itself as a legitimate move towards equality in feminism, but was really a marketing campaign to encourage girls to become hyperconsumers. I wish I knew the author's name, but you can read more about the Girl Power Movement below:

http://www.suite101.com/content/gender-in-magazines-girl-power-and-the-crisis-of-masculinity-a335576

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girl_Power

 

[zpinkz]

I agree that the "nice guy" really does finish last. But then again most guys who think they are "nice guys" are just overly nice and let themselves get stepped on. Then in the end are they really being nice or were they just being nice to get something? I mean come on in the end you're still doing what you're doing to get laid otherwise you wouldn't have a problem with people stepping on you.

The reason why the bad boy gets what they want more often is cuz they realize they just want to get laid so they know what they want and go for it. I'm not saying being the bad boy is best or works best but playing a nice guy really doesn't make u look that confident. Its like you're playing blackjack and u still think you're playing to get 21. In the end its about what you want. Do you want to have some "nice guy" image or do you really want to get laid? If you don't even look like u know where the goal is then you won't look very confident.

I'm not saying you have to be an ass hole to get a girl but if you're spending 50% of the time worrying about what someone thinks of you then you're losing 50% of the time you could have been doing something else.

But anyway even this is off topic. On the topic of girls in TO. Lets face it like u guys have mentioned a lot of them are so materialistic nowadays. On top of materialism every girl has had every guy she's ever met want to bone her since she went through puberty. So you do have to have "game" cuz you have to know how to get to them. pulling some romantic movie skit might work 1/100 times but lets face it at that rate its not what is going to get u laid the most.

 

[DigitallyYours]

There are so many concepts mashed together in this thread.

On the issue of "what women want", it's such a generalization that the question really has no singular answer. In the same way that every girl likes their sexual activity a little different, you can only ask the question "what does *this* woman want".

Toronto is a little different when it comes to dating. It's not unique though. LA and NY also has its own unique dating culture.

There is a difference between being a "nice guy"(tm) and being a "nice" guy. A "nice guy"(tm) is a guy who is overly nice and is stepped on. a "nice" guy is a guy first and foremost, and happens to be kind to others. I see no evidence that the second type isn't desirable and can't get women that he desires.

The same woman will want different thing as she matures. What a 22 year old is looking for is different from what she will want when she is 32.

 

[james t kirk]

Man, some of you guys are sad sacks of shit.

Who fucking cares about putting on some bullshit masquerade to attract a woman. Is that how you want to live your life? If you can't be yourself, why bother.

I think you guys are all interested in the wrong type of woman. Just mentioning "club" women (aka bar chicks) tells me right away what you find attractive. Join the herd boys, join the herd.

 

[afterhours]

They're among the 60% of men who, prior to modern capitalist democratic societies, wouldn't have any offspring.

60%? I never knew it was ever so bad. I reluctantly call bullshit.

 

[afterhours]

What a 22 year old is looking for is different from what she will want when she is 32.

Unfortunately her nipples at 22 are looking at 2 o'clock, while at 32 they looking at 5:30.

 

[Anynym]

From my experience, girls want a player to pick them up, then they expect that guy to immediately become a nice guy afterwards.

Since the lingo is not universal, I'll define what I mean:
- by "player", I mean a guy who the girl enjoys teasing, interacting playfully, quick wit, not necessarily complimentary but teases about things the girl might be insecure about. A guy who the girl knows has any girl he chooses - and is lavishing his attention on her, and she's enjoying the night. It isn't about the pickup, but about establishing an emotional basis for conversation.

- by "nice guy", I mean a guy who is dedicated and committed to one girl, who treats her well and meets her every need - emotional, financial, sexual - all while improving her standing among her friends and never making her feel bad about herself. And above all, a guy who wouldn't think of being with another girl.

There may be some Nice Guys out there. Heck, I'm one. But very few girls will give them the time if they didn't entertain her as a Player would. At least in part because they're accustomed to the fun attention they get from other Players, and confuse that attention with "chemistry".

 

[GPIDEAL]

A 'bad boy' mentality doesn't mean you have to really be a bad boy but basically someone who's fun to be with, exciting and adventurous. If you're playfully mischievous, that works but you don't have to break the law.

I know of young gals, and some dancers, who've had their heart broken by real 'bad boys'.

 

[GG2]

60%? I never knew it was ever so bad. I reluctantly call bullshit.

There was a study was posted here a week or so ago which suggested that we're all descendants of only 40% of men that have ever lived. I did not verify the study/stats.

There may be some Nice Guys out there. Heck, I'm one. But very few girls will give them the time if they didn't entertain her as a Player would. At least in part because they're accustomed to the fun attention they get from other Players, and confuse that attention with "chemistry".

Your definitions are spot on as is your analysis. It's been said that females mature quicker than males. That may be true to some degree, but in gender relations they lag and only come around when they're around 40 (while some never do). Confusion and conflation are hallmarks of young females' thinking patterns when dealing with males. At 40 they've gone through their 30s which is their sexual peak so maybe that's why they develop some understanding about what men deal with, and even then their sexual cravings are peanuts compared to males'.

Either way, the fact that you understand why things work the way they do (your example of "chemistry" is perfect) means you can manipulate females to suit your needs. You can "customize" your interactions. It's these rules that govern behavior that allow good marketeers to sell products to people. Similarly you can sell yourself the same way. You're the product and you can make them want it.

zpinkz is right when he says you need to make a choice between being a bumbling "nice guy" or just be direct with what you're after. You want sex. If something else blossoms out of your sex pursuit, then congrats. If not, you're still much further ahead since you've got more notches on your belt having hit pussy that you wouldn't have gotten if you played the nice guy role to the max.

Others are right that we're generally talking about a specific cross section of females in these discussions. The hot, young, fun type. It's not as applicable to the female bookworms, fatties, and so on.

Don't expect to find these insights in an editorial or magazine article about relationships, in any psychology class at the top universities, or through talking with women. Yet these are the excruciatingly simple facts of life.

 

[Anynym]

Either way, the fact that you understand why things work the way they do (your example of "chemistry" is perfect) means you can manipulate females to suit your needs. You can "customize" your interactions. It's these rules that govern behavior that allow good marketeers to sell products to people. Similarly you can sell yourself the same way. You're the product and you can make them want it.

...

zpinkz is right when he says you need to make a choice between being a bumbling "nice guy" or just be direct with what you're after. You want sex. If something else blossoms out of your sex pursuit, then congrats. If not, you're still much further ahead since you've got more notches on your belt having hit pussy that you wouldn't have gotten if you played the nice guy role to the max.

What you say is true. But when it comes to making that choice, a true "nice guy" will build a friendship first, and extend that friendship into a relationship, showing respect for the girl and reflecting a valueset which doesn't trivialize sexual encounters. He's very capable of teasing and entertaining, but that's not how he wants to start a relationship.

Ultimately, while he wants sex as much as the next guy, he also wants to be able to look himself in the mirror and be content with how he treated others.

Yet, so many young girls are looking to start by trivializing a sexual encounter, then expecting it to turn into a committed relationship. They see it as an opportunity to "test the waters" without getting emotionally involved, and then are disappointed when no emotional involvement arises out of it.

 

[Don Draper]

I'm sure your reply will further confirm your decaying mental condition.

You take cues from actors. What more needs to be said. Go watch another film starring Meryl Streep for more insights about life. lol

Perfect reply!

 

[rhuarc29]

From my experience, girls want a player to pick them up, then they expect that guy to immediately become a nice guy afterwards.

I'd have to agree with you. It seems like for many women, alot of it is about having someone who could have anyone else, but wants only her. Hey, I can see the attraction in that too. But "once a player, always a player" has held up most of the time in my experience. I've seen enough broken hearted girl friends. It's not pretty. Some of them got smart and gave a nice guy a chance and found out it's not just black and white between bad boys and nice guys. The rest of them can't understand why they get betrayed by every guy they date...guy's must all be dicks, right?

 

[GG2]

What you say is true. But when it comes to making that choice, a true "nice guy" will build a friendship first, and extend that friendship into a relationship, showing respect for the girl and reflecting a valueset which doesn't trivialize sexual encounters. He's very capable of teasing and entertaining, but that's not how he wants to start a relationship.

This is why most married people meet their spouses in the workplace or at school. You have to interact with the people you work with every day which leads to friendships. In the work environment people tend to suppress behaviors such as sexual advances right out of the gate because it's not deemed appropriate. So the natural progression from friendship to courtship happens.

Ultimately, while he wants sex as much as the next guy, he also wants to be able to look himself in the mirror and be content with how he treated others.

Yet, so many young girls are looking to start by trivializing a sexual encounter, then expecting it to turn into a committed relationship. They see it as an opportunity to "test the waters" without getting emotionally involved, and then are disappointed when no emotional involvement arises out of it.

That's their problem, not yours. It's a dog eat dog world. In the meantime, you got pussy. Be happy.

8 out of 10 fuckworthy women you meet in life that are just that. You're better off not attempting to go the distance with them in any real relationship.

 

[Brandon123]

Having 'game' is just another metaphor for having confidence, charm and moxy. All the qualities that make a man forever more interesting to a woman than any material possessions.

If you can engage a woman in good conversation, make her feel sexy and desired and make her want and miss you, she won't measure you by what car you drive or how much $ you make. All desire, lust and passion roots from the brain, not a bank account.

If a woman is that shallow, she's not worth any kind of pursuit anyway.

You can't word it any better.

 

[skypilot]

I found that once I had my accident and became impotent I didn't really give a shit about picking up women because there was nothing I could do for them. When I started giving off that give a shit attitude, the women were hitting on me like crazy.

 

[Babypowder]

I found that once I had my accident and became impotent I didn't really give a shit about picking up women because there was nothing I could do for them. When I started giving off that give a shit attitude, the women were hitting on me like crazy.

another one of gods fucked up jokes