War on Public Transit
- Thread starter Brill
- Start date
Something between the downloads, amalgamation, Mayor Mel, and no real Provincial help forthcoming...
People aren't looking at this the right way....simply the feds aren't giving us enough money to run a cost-efficient transit system in the largest city in Canada.... it is fucking retarded to say the least.
The GTA should become its own "province" so that the tax money collected in the population dense GTA goes directly back to us.
Or on the larger scale stop having so many fucking tax breaks and loopholes for big corporations... HOLY FUCK!!!!
The GTA should become its own "province" so that the tax money collected in the population dense GTA goes directly back to us.
Or on the larger scale stop having so many fucking tax breaks and loopholes for big corporations... HOLY FUCK!!!!
Yeah but.......
Toronto ows A LOT to Rene Levesques and his band of merry socialist separatists.
It was Rene who enacted Quebec Appartheid and drove hundreds of thosands of disenfranchised people 5 hours down the 401. They brought their talent, their money, their businesses, their corporate headquarters to Toronto. Montreal was destroyed by Levesque and it has never recovered even to this day. (The population of Montreal is stll not what it was in 1976 when Rene was elected - and that is a statistical fact.)
Levesques (From the Gaspe) and the rest of his Quebec City "La Purelain" despised Montreal because for the most part Montreal never bought into his "we're so fucked over by the Anglo Bastards" line. Montreal was way too cosmopolitan for them (the Separatists) and they set out to show Montreal who was boss (Quebec City). (And I do believe this is EXACTLY what the separatists wanted - Ethnic Clensing of Montreal. Force the Anglo Bastards out of Montreal, those who remain will be Francophones and they will vote for us. Sure, it wil cost us a lot, but in the end, it will be worth it.) The Montreal refugees left because they wanted to live in a city that was inclusive, not exclusive. Montreal was "get the fuck out you Anglo bastards, Toronto was "welcome aboard".
In the end, the PQ'ists may have bought Montreal a subway, but the price was the decimation of their city to second place. Toronto vaulted ahead of Montreal in the 70's and never looked back. Montreal will never regain the crown as the No. 1 city in Canada. Ever.
Thanks Rene.
In truth, they should rename University Avenue "Boulevard Rene Levesques" in honour of the many who did more for Toronto than any other Canadian politician in history.
While james t gets his blood pressure under control, let's us get back on topic. Subways take more money than a city can raise on property taxes. Our provincial governments have given us little no funding help since Bill Davis (barring Mad Mel's Lost Sheep Line). In fact one government even paid to fill in a partly dug subway. Not that it was led by a guy whose Torontophobia was notable or anything.
The question was: Howcum Montreal has such an extensive subway route? Answer: Because Quebec governments actually see their largest city as a jewel in the provincial crown and the heart of its economy, so they funded a system that started only in '67 but rapidly overtook and surpassed TO's.
The question was: Howcum Montreal has such an extensive subway route? Answer: Because Quebec governments actually see their largest city as a jewel in the provincial crown and the heart of its economy, so they funded a system that started only in '67 but rapidly overtook and surpassed TO's.
You wanna know the best part?
Torontonians paid for the subway in Montreal through our taxes. Toronto has always paid BILLIONS more into the federal coffer (and Provincially too) than it EVER gets back. Last figure I heard was 21 billion a year leaves Toronto that never comes back year after year. We fund all government infrastructure in smaller areas of the province and Canada.
Quebec accepts more Transfer Payments and Government Handouts by far than any other province.
Again, this is not bluster, this is an empirical fact.
So in short, it could be argued that the good people of Toronto bought and paid for a subway for Montrealers.
Tabarnack.
I am all for subsidizing public transit, but first it needs to be properly run, and secondly there should in some circumstances, be an end to the monopoly on the TTC. Private companies should not be allowed to run competing routes, but should be allowed to run shuttles to Go and Subway stops from not trunk streets. For example, a mini-bus from a condo to the nearest subway etc etc. But low cost transit should be available and IMHO the TTC is way too pricey.
There is no such thing as low cost transit, only highly subsidized transit. The problem with Toronto, and Ontario for the most part is No Long Term Vision. Subways are very expensive but will benefit generations to come. For that reason, these large infrastructure projects must be cost factored over many years for the benefit of tomorrow as well as today (construction jobs). But our dumb ass politicians only think about today and the next election and how popular tax cuts sound to the average joe. The average joe is to blame as well with his reluctance to pay taxes in general let alone increase his taxes. Yes I know most people feel taxed to death but you know people just like I do who legally dodge taxes yet bitch about how much they have to pay. Multiply that by several million...Lets face it, government general revenues largely come from salaried employees...don't get me started on the self employed...but I digress.
Lets look at the 407 ETR. This toll road has paid for itself several times over and would have been a great money maker to fund large infrastructure projects like subways for our provincial government but our dumb short sighted leaders sold it in an attempt to show a balanced budget with no thought to the future.
Transit will never be improved if we don't commit to expensive long term goals like subways.
Lets look at the 407 ETR. This toll road has paid for itself several times over and would have been a great money maker to fund large infrastructure projects like subways for our provincial government but our dumb short sighted leaders sold it in an attempt to show a balanced budget with no thought to the future.
Transit will never be improved if we don't commit to expensive long term goals like subways.
And what do you expect the resale value to be? You figure they're going to rip up the highway and install some condos????
It's never going to be anything but highway, it's not an investment in land. It's an investment in a highway and as such it cost over $100 billion.
Maybe we should learn how it is done, instead of insisting on not doing it.
Or electing people to not do stuff. Nobody gets anywhere without vision, and blindly cost-cutting doesn't qualify.
Now Back to the War on Cars: There was an article about the 407 toll increase in the Star the quoted their guy pointing out tolls are a control mechanism, not just an income stream. Higher tolls discourage users and congestion, so those who do pay them move along efficiently. An expressway packed like a parking lot makes them less money than a road delivering as many cars as it can to their exit points as fast as it can.
If we put tolls on the DVParking lot and managed them similarly, more drivers would get downtown (or out) faster. But they'd be paying for the privilege, which they seem unwilling to do. Besides, where they really screw things up for everyone is after they arrive in the core and slow everything down by driving around looking for free parking, to go with their free highway. Streetcars as free as highways, and no left turns and expensive parking would help.
Anyway, on the DVP they're only srcrewing over each other.
Large tracts of land were bought, way more than was needed for the actual highway. If they paid 100 billion in the 70's and 80's, image what the excess land is worth today. If it is still owned it will have a huge profit to it since they are building subdivisions right up to the fencing along the 407 in a lot of areas. If correct, they were accumulating 20 years worth of land prior to starting the highway, I guess Bill Davis is owed credit for this one, he did have vision.
The cost of the actual roadway has easily been recouped several times over and the continual revenues could have been used to fund new projects, ie. subways rather than dumped at a ridiculous price.
