Is the Kessel trade the greatest fleecing in NHL history?

[maurice93]

Mike Komisarek has a no movement/modified no trade contract as well.

B.B. has said repeatedly that he will not ask a player to waive that right.

Brad Richards is an UFA at the end of this season.

Ignoring the fact that the 2 players I mentioned above cannot be traded without their request, you want to also include a prospect, and another 1st round draft pick in exchange for a half season of Brad Richards.

You're not that bright, are you ?

Komisarek is not an asset. He brings negative value to a deal - you have to add draft picks and prospects simply to get rid of his bad contract even if he were to waive his NMC.

That being said - I agree it is absolutely dumb for the Leafs to trade for Richards now. They are not going to make the playoffs - try your luck in the offseason and hold onto young assets and picks.

 

[bigdik]

The Neely trade was far better/worse. Not only did the Bruins get Neely and draft Wesley, they then got 3 picks for Wesley, including Kyle McLaren and Sergei Samsonov.
Samsonov was traded to Edmonton for Yan Stastny, Marty Reasoner, and a pick. That pick was Milan Lucic. McLaren was traded to San Jose, and if you trace the convoluted lineage of that deal, currently Gregory Campbell and Nathan Horton are the yield.
24 years on, and the Bruins have 3 top 12 forwards to show for Barry Pederson.

As a life-long Bruins fan, so far this trade looks GREAT - almost as good as getting Neely from the 'nucks for Barry Pedersen (along with a draft pick that ended up being Glenn Wesley!). Kessell is a rare bird - a pure goal scorer, but Bruins will benefit most from this. Now, what we DO with all this incoming talent is still very much up in the air...

 

[wawa]

I believe this would qualify as a much larger fleecing: How Montreal Canadiens drafted Guy Lafleur in 1971. They also got Larry Robinson in the same draft!

From Wikipedia: The Habs' astute General Manager, Sam Pollock, was keen to find a way to trade with the California Golden Seals to obtain their first round draft pick. He persuaded Seals owner Charlie Finley to trade the Seals' pick and François Lacombe in return for Montreal's first round pick and a veteran Ernie Hicke. It turned out to be one of the most lopsided deals in NHL history. However, during the 1970-71 season, the Los Angeles Kings were playing even more poorly than the hapless California Seals. The Kings were in danger of "beating" the Seals out for last place, and if this happened Pollock would lose his first overall pick. Pollock cleverly traded the aging but still valuable Ralph Backstrom to the Kings for two insignificant players. Backstrom's presence lifted the Kings out of last place, the Seals finished at the bottom, granting the Habs the first pick. Pollock hesitated between Lafleur and Marcel Dionne, but chose Lafleur with his overall no.1 pick.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

The trade of Phil Esposito from Chicago Black Hawks to Boston Bruins was a royal fleecing too.
Esposito went on to win 5 league scoring titles and finished 2 nd place twice in league scoring in the 8 full seasons he was with the Bruins.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=1588

 

[ClassAct]

How about Eric Lindros for: Peter Forsberg, Steve Duchesne, Kerry Huffman, Mike Ricci, Ron Hextall, Philadelphia's 1st round choice (Goalie, Jocelyn Thibault)?

 

[dagwood69]

russ courtnall for John Kordic was bad

 

[kirmit129]

How about Eric Lindros for: Peter Forsberg, Steve Duchesne, Kerry Huffman, Mike Ricci, Ron Hextall, Philadelphia's 1st round choice (Goalie, Jocelyn Thibault)?

... and 15 million.

Check post #9.

Jocelyn Thibault was traded for Patrick Roy. Rob Blake, Ray Bourque and others arrived to Colorado with elements of that trade. That's Colorado 4 Stanley cups and Flyers zero.

 

[ClassAct]

... and 15 million.

Check post #9.

Jocelyn Thibault was traded for Patrick Roy. Rob Blake, Ray Bourque and others arrived to Colorado with elements of that trade. That's Colorado 4 Stanley cups and Flyers zero.

Oops..didn't read your post earlier.....Yeah, come to think of it, this was probably the worst trade in all of sports history.

 

[alwayslooking]

... and 15 million.

Check post #9.

Jocelyn Thibault was traded for Patrick Roy. Rob Blake, Ray Bourque and others arrived to Colorado with elements of that trade. That's Colorado 4 Stanley cups and Flyers zero.

The Avalance won 2 cups not four. As bad as that trade was I don't see how acquiring someone who won a Hart trophy can be all that bad. The Flyers made a cup final with Lindros and I would say if Clarke wasn't so stubborn about trying to win a Cup without a goalie the trade may have garnered a Cup or two for the Flyers. The Kessel trade has the ability to keep the Leafs in the basement for the next 5 years. Giving up what looks to be 2 top 3 picks is just a killer. There really is very little to look forward to for Leafs fans. You look at the teams that are winning now and if the Blackhawks or Penguins made this trade a few years back they would've given up Toews/Kane and Malkin/Crosby. I guess the real miscalculation by Burke was he badly and I do mean badly overestimated the talent of his roster since I think he thought that the picks would likely end up in the teens.

 

[kirmit129]

The Avalance won 2 cups not four. As bad as that trade was I don't see how acquiring someone who won a Hart trophy can be all that bad. The Flyers made a cup final with Lindros and I would say if Clarke wasn't so stubborn about trying to win a Cup without a goalie the trade may have garnered a Cup or two for the Flyers. The Kessel trade has the ability to keep the Leafs in the basement for the next 5 years. Giving up what looks to be 2 top 3 picks is just a killer. There really is very little to look forward to for Leafs fans. You look at the teams that are winning now and if the Blackhawks or Penguins made this trade a few years back they would've given up Toews/Kane and Malkin/Crosby. I guess the real miscalculation by Burke was he badly and I do mean badly overestimated the talent of his roster since I think he thought that the picks would likely end up in the teens.

You are right. I was thinking of Patrick Roys' total. He won 2 with Montreal and 2 with Colorado. Peter Forsberg was also a hart trophy winner. Hence, the Flyers got a hart trophy winner for a hart trophy winner + a hand full of players + a first round pick + 15 million.

The Kessel trade hurts the Leafs since, had the Leafs not acquired him, they may have finished last instead of second worst and would have had a good chance of getting the first overall pick. Hall and Seguin are both first round worthy though.

 

[dagwood69]

the Sittler trade to philly in early 80s was brutal as was the Macdonald trade to Colorado,,,Punch Imlach turned down Rick Macleish and Moose Dupont for Rich Costello, Peter Ihnacak drafted, and Ken Strong,,,only Ihnacak provided any really usefull service to the leafs,,,,then again he was no Sittler either,,,

 

[sleazure]

My vote goes to what Philadelphia paid for Eric Lindros. On June 30, 1992, Lindros was sent to the Flyers for Peter Forsberg, Mike Ricci, Ron Hextall, Chris Simon, Kerry Huffman, Steve Duchesne, two first-round picks and $15 million.

And he didn't even want to stay in Quebec.

 

[sleazure]

russ courtnall for John Kordic was bad

That was awful.

 

[gcostanza]

The Pens blew it on draft day tho in 2006 when they chose Jordan Staal second overall and the Hawks then took Johnathan Toews third overall (2010 Stanley Cup MYP) Oops. Kessel then went fourth to Boston.

I have to give you credit, when you're wrong, you're wrong. And about hockey, you are wrong most of the time.

Kessel went 5th, to Boston, Nicklas Backstrom was the 4th overall pick (Washington).

Staal has hardly been a flop, he has a Stanley Cup ring, as does Toews.
Staal is regarded as an exceptional defensive centre, and fully capable of good offence, but has a fellow named Malkin, and some guy that goes by Crosby playing centre on the same team as him.

 

[Toronto Passions]

Retaining Wilson as coach is the worst management move of all time.
Obviously, Burke is the worst GM of all time.

It is sure looking that way.

 

[shack]

It is sure looking that way.

Not that either one of those guys is establishing anything close to Hall of Fame credentials while in Toronto, my whole post was a sarcastic dig at all the wannabe GM's who have the luxury of hindsight in their never ending and over the top criticsms (although some are definitely deserved). The title of this thread is a classic example of the over reaction of many "fans" that I was attempting to parody.

Actually, Damien Cox' column in today's Star was an excellent example of a well measured criticism. In mentioning the trade he felt the deal for Kessel was itself not a bad mistake. The mistake was in miscalculating the degree of difficulty in being able to acquire some playmakers to complement Kessel's sniping ability, due to the way the salary cap is having an evolving effect on making trades and the surprisingly few number of quality free agents available each year. The general consensus a few years ago was that the cap would create a market with more free agents. Surprisingly the opposite has happened since the cap has gone up over 50% meaning most teams have the cap space to retain their quality players.

He also went on to discuss how Burke has the three options of 1) overpaying for aging stars a la Brad Richards to get some immediate but limited results, 2) blowing up the team but with an already young core (youngest team in the league), there is reasonable quality to work with and can still improve or 3) continue with his current approach of youth, maybe get an affordable addition here or there but do not by any means give up any more first rounders.

I can respect a discussion like Cox' admitting there have been some mistakes but also that there has been an approach that does have logic to it. But to say ridiculous things like the Kessel trade is the worst in history of the NHL has no merit and really isn't even worthy of a discussion. The players involved are all so young (one has played less than half a season and one is still undrafted), it is impossible at this point for anybody anywhere to accurately evaluate it at this point. It will take a minimum of 6-8 years to really know.

 

[ahlungjai]

And Kadri is the worst draft choice of all time.
And Komisarek and Beauchemin are the worst free agent signings of all time.
Retaining Wilson as coach is the worst management move of all time.
Obviously, Burke is the worst GM of all time.

Just by reading TERB I can see we must have at least 2 dozen members who are more qualified to run the team.

lol totally agree

oh yea Segin had 2 points tonight...and a beauty of a shootout goal.. this kid can play!

 

[The Bandit]

Not a chance this is the worst trade ever....there have been great players traded for one's that never played a game in the league.

 

[Dancerfan]

Ok back to the worst trade in NHL history. I would say the Leafs trading their number 1 pick to NJ for Tom Kurvers. That number 1 pick turned out to be Scott Niedermayer.

Sure, that was a bad deal, but whos to say that Niedermayer would've developed into the player he was with the Leafs, if they even would have drafted him? They probably would've taken some other no name on the advice of their scouting, and disposed of him after a couple of years, only to see this guy become a solid part of another team!

 

[tribunus]

I hate the trade with conviction, but it's not the worst. In Kessel you have a tangible talent, but the point that Burke fails to acknowledge to this day is that you don't trade unprotected 1st rounders when you're not expected to make the playoffs. Boston was anxious to get his attitude, salary demands and limited game out of town, and would've settled for less than what the Leafs offered.