how do you know i am not in the millitary right now by the way ? i could be a soldier that defends your right to have moronic opinions.
Definition of torture
- Thread starter fmahovalich
- Start date
Water boarding is not torture, it is a sport much like surf boarding except you use your face instead of a surf board.
I can not stand the hypocrisy over this torture thing, change the definition of torture and now you can do it, change the label to non combatant and the geneva convention is no longer applicable, fly the mofo off US ground and now you do not have to give him any rights. Life, death, and suffering is just a PR problem.
There is more grounds to invade the US than the US to invade IRAQ.
I can not stand the hypocrisy over this torture thing, change the definition of torture and now you can do it, change the label to non combatant and the geneva convention is no longer applicable, fly the mofo off US ground and now you do not have to give him any rights. Life, death, and suffering is just a PR problem.
There is more grounds to invade the US than the US to invade IRAQ.
WARNING: GRAPHIC IMAGES!!
http://www.life.com/image/50693450/in-gallery/41722
I often wonder about the "we are morally superior" crowd. Do they actually believe that, or are they just saying that as some means of assuaging themselves of any responsibility. If we are "morally superior", then you must beleive that our enemies, whoever they may be, are "morally inferior". In what other regard do you consider them to be "inferior". Are they racial stereotype "Japs", or Jewish "lice" or any other term of propaganda designed to dehumanize the "enemy" so that we don't feel bad about killing them? Is that what the "we are morally superior" crowd thinks? I certainly hope not, because it would really seem to me that this "we lower ourselves to their level" mentality has fallen for the propaganda behind war. People are people. In war, people die. In peacetime, people die violent deaths. Its humanity at its absolute most inhuman behaviour. I'm not morally superior to anyone out there, nor do I feel that theres anyone out there who is inferior to me in any way, and I'm one of the guys that gets compared to a gangster or traitor to "our" principles, because I made a career choice that necessitates making very difficult decisions under very difficult circumstances.
The "we are morally superior" crowd seems IMO to be pretty quick with the denials, accusations and put-downs against those who differ from their beliefs. The editors of "Life" magazine got it right with their response quoted below the picture in the link. Too many people forget that. And its pretty easy to attack those who remind you of it. No one is "pro" torture any more than they are "pro" war, or "pro" rape, or any other form of violence, despite the standard fallback argument of "we are morally superior".......next time anyone is tempted to use that in a discussion here, try using "they are morally inferior", or maybe just plain ol' "they are inferior" and see how many brownie points you'll score be saying that, because claiming we're superior pretty much insinuates that they are inferior. They're as human as we are, and there may be some pretty major cultural/historical differences between us, but people are equal. If it boosts your ego to put down someone who confronts violent realities by implying he is your "inferior", as happens right here on this very board, full of "morally superior" individuals, then thats your right. But its not right. People are people, wars happen, torture happens, both sides do it, and wishing it away wont work. To deny that it torture is only used by the "morally inferior" side is a pretty ostrich-like response. People use torture, and war, and violence, against people. Thats it.
http://www.life.com/image/50693450/in-gallery/41722
I often wonder about the "we are morally superior" crowd. Do they actually believe that, or are they just saying that as some means of assuaging themselves of any responsibility. If we are "morally superior", then you must beleive that our enemies, whoever they may be, are "morally inferior". In what other regard do you consider them to be "inferior". Are they racial stereotype "Japs", or Jewish "lice" or any other term of propaganda designed to dehumanize the "enemy" so that we don't feel bad about killing them? Is that what the "we are morally superior" crowd thinks? I certainly hope not, because it would really seem to me that this "we lower ourselves to their level" mentality has fallen for the propaganda behind war. People are people. In war, people die. In peacetime, people die violent deaths. Its humanity at its absolute most inhuman behaviour. I'm not morally superior to anyone out there, nor do I feel that theres anyone out there who is inferior to me in any way, and I'm one of the guys that gets compared to a gangster or traitor to "our" principles, because I made a career choice that necessitates making very difficult decisions under very difficult circumstances.
The "we are morally superior" crowd seems IMO to be pretty quick with the denials, accusations and put-downs against those who differ from their beliefs. The editors of "Life" magazine got it right with their response quoted below the picture in the link. Too many people forget that. And its pretty easy to attack those who remind you of it. No one is "pro" torture any more than they are "pro" war, or "pro" rape, or any other form of violence, despite the standard fallback argument of "we are morally superior".......next time anyone is tempted to use that in a discussion here, try using "they are morally inferior", or maybe just plain ol' "they are inferior" and see how many brownie points you'll score be saying that, because claiming we're superior pretty much insinuates that they are inferior. They're as human as we are, and there may be some pretty major cultural/historical differences between us, but people are equal. If it boosts your ego to put down someone who confronts violent realities by implying he is your "inferior", as happens right here on this very board, full of "morally superior" individuals, then thats your right. But its not right. People are people, wars happen, torture happens, both sides do it, and wishing it away wont work. To deny that it torture is only used by the "morally inferior" side is a pretty ostrich-like response. People use torture, and war, and violence, against people. Thats it.
He is credited with saving Christian Europe from the invading muslims. Sarkozy is half Hungarian...I wonder ....Just checked it. You were right and I fucked up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_Impaler#Third_reign_and_death
I take issue with calling the afghan detainees 'POWs'...they are not wearing a uniform and are therefore spies and can be dealt with accordingly. So while we should not torture them, we should deal with them as spies or at the very least non-combatant murderers.Hell, in Canada instead of bringing our prisionrs of war back to Canada to go into miltary camps ( as we did in WW II) we hand off our captured soilders who are either released almost immediatly to fight against us again, or never seen again because they where tortued and then we assume killed. [/url]
Oh my god, simon is Jack!well people like you can sit around and say its not right and people like me can do what we do to make the world safe. people like you are disgusted by people like me but i promise you the world would be a lot worse off if you didn't have people doing things by any means neccesary.
I know a few members of our armed forces, and NONE of them would ever say anything quite so stupid as that.how do you know i am not in the millitary right now by the way ? i could be a soldier that defends your right to have moronic opinions.
i know quite a few people in the military as well and they say things like this all the time.I know a few members of our armed forces, and NONE of them would ever say anything quite so stupid as that.
that made me laugh.Water boarding is not torture, it is a sport much like surf boarding except you use your face instead of a surf board.
So much the worse if you are: It would mean your treason and your cowardice are corrupting our armed forces. Anyone in the Canadian Forces who supports torture needs to be brought to justice.how do you know i am not in the millitary right now by the way ? i could be a soldier that defends your right to have moronic opinions.
Actually, yes it does. It doesn't matter who is doing it, it's wrong. If there there are people who are, illegally, despite the interests of Canadians, despite our laws, despite what we stand for, attempting to do this in our name, those people need to be brought to justice, tried for their crimes, and jailed.everyone on every side is doing it, just cuz you don't approve doesn't mean it is bad.
That's like saying date rape is not that bad compared to what Paul Bernardo did. It doesn't make it any less criminal.waterboarding is not that bad compared to what the guys over seas do.
I believe it's what we should be. I am deeply suspicious that our armed forces has lost the path and is not implementing the will of the Canadian people.I often wonder about the "we are morally superior" crowd. Do they actually believe that, or are they just saying that as some means of assuaging themselves of any responsibility.
It's a greater threat to our national security to win the war in Afghanistan by means of such things as torture than it is to lose the war there. I don't think military understands that.
i am guessing you are one of those people that support putting our soldiers up on murder trials for doing the job we entrusted them to do. by the way you calling me a traitor does not affect me in anyway, your moral superiority complex shows the kind of person you are.So much the worse if you are: It would mean your treason and your cowardice are corrupting our armed forces. Anyone in the Canadian Forces who supports torture needs to be brought to justice.
you never answered my question either, your kid gets kidnapped and you have the guy in custody that can tell you were she is so you can get her back what do you do ? you gonna get him a nice meal and ask "pretty please" or you can take a hammer to his toes till he tells you where she is ?
No, I am one of those people that supports putting our soldiers up on murder trials when they fail to do the job. Torturing prisoners or murdering them would be an example of failing.i am guessing you are one of those people that support putting our soldiers up on murder trials for doing the job we entrusted them to do.
I'm not a coward so no I wouldn't torture him. As I answered you before I don't want safety at that price. If it WAS actually called for I would be prepared to sacrifice my life for my child: I would be prepared to spend the rest of my natural life in jail as punishment. If it's not worth that sacrifice, it's not worth doing.you never answered my question either, your kid gets kidnapped and you have the guy in custody that can tell you were she is so you can get her back what do you do ?
The same should apply to the military. If it's actually going to save 1000's of lives for real (highly unlikely, honestly) you should be prepared to die for it, or to spend your life in jail for it. Removing the punishment would leave us in a world where people claim that it would save 1000's of lives, but not really--it'd just be an excuse. The punishment, life in prison, will keep people honest in this regard.
Your example is far fetched anyway that kind of thing only happens in Dirty Harry movies.
you are obviously thinking that we live in a nice perfect world, which is not the case and will never be the case. get over yourself.No, I am one of those people that supports putting our soldiers up on murder trials when they fail to do the job. Torturing prisoners or murdering them would be an example of failing.
I'm not a coward so no I wouldn't torture him. As I answered you before I don't want safety at that price.
Your example is far fetched anyway that kind of thing only happens in Dirty Harry movies.
so you would rather your kid die then make the guy that took her suffer a bit, so you are a bad parent as well as an idealist that is delusional.
I don't think we live in a nice perfect world and there's no way for you to read my posts and come to that conclusion. Try again.
You fail to comprehend that I take my principles seriously and unlike you don't sell them out cheaply. Unlike you I'm not a coward, I'm willing to accept some level of danger and risk to stand for what I believe in.
You fail to comprehend that I take my principles seriously and unlike you don't sell them out cheaply. Unlike you I'm not a coward, I'm willing to accept some level of danger and risk to stand for what I believe in.
If thats what you beleive Fuji, maybe you should try living that attitude rather than preaching it. Use your "moral superiority" right here right now on this board and show the less enlightened the error of their ways through your shining example......in other words, apologize to Simon for the abusive and offensive language you've thrown towards him. That would be a "morally superior" thing to do, wouldn't it? Do you have the courage and patriotism you claim, or does "moral superiority" consist only of "do as I say"?I believe it's what we should be. I am deeply suspicious that our armed forces has lost the path and is not implementing the will of the Canadian people.
It's a greater threat to our national security to win the war in Afghanistan by means of such things as torture than it is to lose the war there. I don't think military understands that.
Do you beleive Simon to be your inferior? Do you beleive that our "enemies" are inferior?
If you bothered to do some research on the incredible complexity of this situation even someone as willfully ignorant to facts would see the difficult challenges the military faces.
okay well you stand there with your morals and let some guy shoot you cuz you think you are above it and i will break his knee caps to find out why he did it.I don't think we live in a nice perfect world and there's no way for you to read my posts and come to that conclusion. Try again.
You fail to comprehend that I take my principles seriously and unlike you don't sell them out cheaply. Unlike you I'm not a coward, I'm willing to accept some level of danger and risk to stand for what I believe in.
thank you for that, i was wondering when he was gonna get catch on that he was doing what he said he is against. sure on a smaller level but still.If thats what you beleive Fuji, maybe you should try living that attitude rather than preaching it. Use your "moral superiority" right here right now on this board and show the less enlightened the error of their ways through your shining example......in other words, apologize to Simon for the abusive and offensive language you've thrown towards him. That would be a "morally superior" thing to do, wouldn't it? Do you have the courage and patriotism you claim, or does "moral superiority" consist only of "do as I say"?
Do you beleive Simon to be your inferior? Do you beleive that our "enemies" are inferior?
If you bothered to do some research on the incredible complexity of this situation even someone as willfully ignorant to facts would see the difficult challenges the military faces.
You are seriously retarded.you are obviously thinking that we live in a nice perfect world, which is not the case and will never be the case. get over yourself.
so you would rather your kid die then make the guy that took her suffer a bit, so you are a bad parent as well as an idealist that is delusional.
why is that ? please explain. i need to hear this explination, i will not be able to go on with my life if i don't hear the fucking brilliance that you are about to spew forth.You are seriously retarded.
