Tipping: why is 10% not perfectly adequate?

[Toke]

I worked at 2 different restaurants as a waiter when I was in high school / University which was 10 years ago. I can say it does take much more "skill" than working in a grocery store or simple retail (both of which I've also done). So I think its proper that wait staff gets paid more for their "skill".

Its common that for Thurs to Sat nights from 5pm to 10pm, just tips alone I would average $140/night, and to include the hourly wage that would put me to $200/night. Thats just the evening! If I worked lunch from 10am to 5pm add another $150, so I would make $350/day. Thats pretty damn good!

And get this... I was working at a buffet place so most people just tip @ 10%. So I don't understand why people complaining 10% tips is too little for the server.

True. I would adjust the percentage dependent on the place. However, many people feel more inclined to tip higher percentages in 'high-end' establishments while 'cheaping out' at chains. I guess it somehow comes with the territory (higer-end dining means more dispossable loot), but this is actually backward.

Look, for those crying about having to tip, look at it like this. Would you do said job for minimum wage? How about $15 per hour? $20? Servers work/sacrifice what most people accept as 'off hours' and holidays in order for many to go out and enjoy themselves. The job requires a degree of fitness and more so mental preparedness while putting up with a lot of BS from cranky people. I wonder what these naysayers would say about SPs and what they make on a daily basis (plus tip) in relation to the 'skill' required for their line of work (I'm only offering the comparative, not passing judgment)? This very topic was discussed here years ago, and many made the argument that SPs' income is different as it well above the minimum wage.

Here's another point to consider...
Would you rather that restaurants included a service charge of 15% on every bill? I've had this conversation many times with servers and the majority would rather that then 'hoping' for a tip; big or small. Sorry folks, but tipping is part of the cost of full-serve dining. Lawyers have fees beyond their hourly rate, but some would/could/do argue that their already substantial fees should include more than simply their time. However, the rate is set and you can choose to pay it or not. Be thankful that in the restaurant industry, how much/little you pay is greatly at your discression and rarely challanged and/or legally binding.

 

[simon482]

so how should i tip at a buffet place where i serve myself ?

 

[Mervyn]

so how should i tip at a buffet place where i serve myself ?

Depends on the Buffet place.. havent been to one inna while, but at the Mandarin for example, while it's true the servers don't bring you food, they work their assess off bringing/refilling drinks,removing used plates, or bring other needed items. Arguably they do a lot more than many restaurant where they do serve you food.

 

[Toke]

so how should i tip at a buffet place where i serve myself ?

10%

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g191-s606/United-States:Tipping.And.Etiquette.html

 

[T.O. John]

I tip 10 or 11% for most meals, yet a lot of people seem to think that 15% is the minimum now. Yet I fail to see why I should pay say $5 for a $30 meal when the grand total time she spent serving me was at MOST 5 minutes. In fact the whole idea of tipping is annoying and silly, especially as we see it expanding into other areas.

If you work out what waitresses are getting on an hourly basis, it can be ridiculously high. and yes, I do know that the basic wage is low and they have to share, but waitresses can still earn $40 or more per hour. I find that over the top for a pretty low-skilled job.

What is most annoying though is how everyone moans and groans about low tipping of waitresses - yet we don't tip the staff at numerous other places who are alos earning low wages, like the person at the fast food joint for instance.

As someone who works as a waiter, I disagree and I'll tell you why you should tip 15%+. The wage that servers make is not only low, but it's minimum wage at most places. Depending on the region, it's even lower than that. I used to wait tables in Ohio where the wage for servers at the time was $2.13 per hour, so most of the time our checks were void. Which means we were completely dependant on our tips because we got no check. Second, you might not think that serving is hard or that server is with you that much, but it is a busy, demanding, and stressful job. As the guest (customer), all you have to worry about is yourself. As the waiter, you're responsible for making sure that all of your tables are taken care of, which requires them to really be on top of it. If something goes wrong, whether it's the server's fault or not, the server usually has to take the blame, because the server is who is on the front line with the table. The table doesn't know or care about the other tables or delays in the kitchen, etc. 15% is the minimum, but 20% is actually the norm for great service. In other parts of the world waiters are paid a higher hourly rate and therefore tipping isn't customary in those places which makes sense. But here it is to make up for the low minimum wage they're paid and to show appreciation for good service. There are other professions tipped such as bellboys, bartenders, cab drivers, etc. That's actually the reason why you tip at a restaurant and not a fast food place. At a restaurant you're getting a meal in an atmosphere plus the service. In a fast food joint, they pretty much just say "hey there's your food".

 

[Toke]

Good points John but the O.P. (and many others) reason that the establishment should be solely responsible for paying servers rather than customers through tips.

I would have no problem with the eliminating of tips, but those against tipping must realize that the cost will be passed on through menu prices. While this may seem fine, the cost will likely rise 25-30% (upfront and all-in) as wage paid servers and support staff will expect the same compensation (i.e. benefits, raises, maybe even a union) as other industries. Things as they stand are cheaper for the customer; trust me.

 

[simon482]

Depends on the Buffet place.. havent been to one inna while, but at the Mandarin for example, while it's true the servers don't bring you food, they work their assess off bringing/refilling drinks,removing used plates, or bring other needed items. Arguably they do a lot more than many restaurant where they do serve you food.

the run their asses off i agree. i tip every where i go from convience stores to gas stations and every store i hit. anything i say that may be anti tip is just me doing a counterpoint for the sake of the conversation.

 

[RemyMartin]

Do you guys tip car salesman too? I do, 10 -15 %.

 

[CapitalGuy]

10% is more than enough. Life is expensive and I work hard for my money. Its not my problem that others have a lower-paying job and while I am happy to indulge in the custom of tipping, no whining from the servers in here will convince me that I should give as big a tip as the government takes away from me in HST. That doesn't make me an asshole, by the way, just a guy who gives an EXTRA ten percent to someone who works in an industry with archaic pay customs.

 

[Toke]

10% is more than enough. Life is expensive and I work hard for my money. Its not my problem that others have a lower-paying job and while I am happy to indulge in the custom of tipping, no whining from the servers in here will convince me that I should give as big a tip as the government takes away from me in HST. That doesn't make me an asshole, by the way, just a guy who gives an EXTRA ten percent to someone who works in an industry with archaic pay customs.

Where didi servers support the HST. Passing your cost-of-living on to someone else? Is that 10% standard or maximum? Just let me know if it is max-money and I'll oblige.

 

[681david]

Wages at some restaurants are $4.75 plus tip. So tip generously if you can.
I have avoided tipping when given crap service-harried waiter with horrible attitude.

 

[rateyourescort]

If I'm with a date and I get excellent service then that makes my day. So I'm happy to pay 15%. For those places that are noisy, forget to bring my water and make me wait 20 minutes for a drink.... well I just politely leave 0 tip if I'm given the opportunity to not be seen by my date. I don't think people should care about what's the social norm for tipping, but maybe that's just me.

I tip 10 or 11% for most meals, yet a lot of people seem to think that 15% is the minimum now. Yet I fail to see why I should pay say $5 for a $30 meal when the grand total time she spent serving me was at MOST 5 minutes. In fact the whole idea of tipping is annoying and silly, especially as we see it expanding into other areas.

If you work out what waitresses are getting on an hourly basis, it can be ridiculously high. and yes, I do know that the basic wage is low and they have to share, but waitresses can still earn $40 or more per hour. I find that over the top for a pretty low-skilled job.

What is most annoying though is how everyone moans and groans about low tipping of waitresses - yet we don't tip the staff at numerous other places who are alos earning low wages, like the person at the fast food joint for instance.

 

[NorthernBear]

First of all let me state that I always tip minimum 15% but usually a bit higher because I know that servers rely on tips.
I do not disagree with tipping at all but there are still two questions that have not been answered that puzzle me.

First of all, how come 10% was an acceptable tip 20 years ago but is now considered an insult? Has the level of service gone up so much or do wait staff just think that they are worth much more nowadays?

Secondly, why should wait staff need to rely on tipping for a decent wage. That should be the duty of the employers not the customers. Save me the bullshit line about providing good service. Good service should be part of the job.
I cannot tell my boss, "Pay me 15% bonus and I will work harder for you." The incentive to work harder lies in job security. If I do not perform up to acceptable levels then they will replace me with someone who will.

In many States I have visited restaurants and in tiny letters at the bottom of the menu it states that a 15% gratuity has been included in all prices. If I feel that if the waiter/waitress deserves more I will provide an extra tip on one stipulation... that I am informed about the extra 15% ahead of time. There are many that deceive the customer by accepting tips from customers unaware that the tip has been added.

 

[I Claudius]

Do you guys tip car salesman too? I do, 10 -15 %.

Car salesmen ? Are they not working on commission rather than on minimum wage ? Never heard before of anyone tipping car salesmen

 

[Master_Bates]

I'm not sure if people realize but servers really give up their evenings, weekends, and holidays to make money. They are working when the majority of the population is relaxing. Full time servers sacrifice much of their social life and friends for the job. You miss out on weekend trips, evening activities, time with their SO. That's not something that's easy to give up in exchange for minimum wage and poor attitudes from customers.

It's also just a very stressful job. When ANYTHING goes wrong, it is mostly felt by the servers. If anyone calls in sick, the server is punished by unhappy customers. If equipment breaks, the server gets punished. Things also go wrong all the time, that's just the way it is.

 

[james t kirk]

I'm not sure if people realize but servers really give up their evenings, weekends, and holidays to make money. They are working when the majority of the population is relaxing. Full time servers sacrifice much of their social life and friends for the job. You miss out on weekend trips, evening activities, time with their SO. That's not something that's easy to give up in exchange for minimum wage and poor attitudes from customers.

It's also just a very stressful job. When ANYTHING goes wrong, it is mostly felt by the servers. If anyone calls in sick, the server is punished by unhappy customers. If equipment breaks, the server gets punished. Things also go wrong all the time, that's just the way it is.

Stressful?

Please. Finding work to keep 100 people employed on a day to day basis - that's stressful. Making sure you remember to bring the ketsup to that guy at table 4 - not stressful.

Giving up your social life? Do you think that those of us who work from 8 in the a.m. to 8 in the p.m. (or later) every day (with TERB breaks) and weekends have a social life?

 

[dondada]

what scares me is people who don't tip enough and go to the same places.
If you invite me to dinner and the waiter knows you and you leave bad tip I assume that the waiter knows you as a bad tipper and that he accordingly had spat in our meal.

i saw that on a show once...food came back and the cook added spit sauce to make it better...yuck...i rarely eat out...so i tip @ around the 10-15 range...

 

[Toke]

First of all let me state that I always tip minimum 15% but usually a bit higher because I know that servers rely on tips.
I do not disagree with tipping at all but there are still two questions that have not been answered that puzzle me.

First of all, how come 10% was an acceptable tip 20 years ago but is now considered an insult? Has the level of service gone up so much or do wait staff just think that they are worth much more nowadays?

Secondly, why should wait staff need to rely on tipping for a decent wage. That should be the duty of the employers not the customers. Save me the bullshit line about providing good service. Good service should be part of the job.
I cannot tell my boss, "Pay me 15% bonus and I will work harder for you." The incentive to work harder lies in job security. If I do not perform up to acceptable levels then they will replace me with someone who will.

In many States I have visited restaurants and in tiny letters at the bottom of the menu it states that a 15% gratuity has been included in all prices. If I feel that if the waiter/waitress deserves more I will provide an extra tip on one stipulation... that I am informed about the extra 15% ahead of time. There are many that deceive the customer by accepting tips from customers unaware that the tip has been added.

In response to the bolded portion:
Have you read the thread? You're making the same point and asking the same questions already addressed. Sure providing good service is part of the job, but would you do it for $1-below minimum wage? You're likely the same person that shows up to a Hooters-like bar, oogles the ladies, and walks out thinking, 'That was fun, why should I tip them.' Or you leave them 30%.

In response to the underlined portion:
That is the point that I am making. Everyone here is complaining that they don't want tipping to remain as it is; highly left to the discretion of the customer; rarely challanged; not legally enforced by a governement who greedily stands by with its coffers ready for their cut while ensuring that servers do not get minimum wage.
So you don't complain if it's listed at the bottom of the menu, but you do if it's left for you to decide. No porblem. most restaurant Point-of-Sales systems can add gratuity to your bill. Just let the waiter know to 'tack on 15-points'.

Stressful?

Please. Finding work to keep 100 people employed on a day to day basis - that's stressful. Making sure you remember to bring the ketsup to that guy at table 4 - not stressful.

Giving up your social life? Do you think that those of us who work from 8 in the a.m. to 8 in the p.m. (or later) every day (with TERB breaks) and weekends have a social life?

Sorry but serving is much more stressful. Does every person you deal with have the opportunit to decide whether or not you make money? Do you have management that 9/10 times sides with the customer even when the employee is in the right, just to save the company's face thereby humiliating the server? Does your employer expect a commission from your sales regardless of your profit For example, if someone does not tip, the server is still responsible to tip their support staff. Sounds nice except, but what if it was the fault of the support staff (e.g. kitchen) that causes the customer to be upset and not tip?

While I agree with what many 'pro-wage' posters are saying, not one has addressed the issue of who/where these equitable wages will come from. THEY WILL BE PASSED ON TO THE CUSTOMER THROUGH INCREASED MENU PRICES (20-30%) AND/OR SERVICE CHARGES THAT WILL BE BINDING. I'm sure you don't think that menu prices will remain the same. Do you?

 

[NorthernBear]

I work for straight pay with no tips. I also work night shift and evenings. I have not had Saturday and Sunday of the same weekend off since February. I have also had to work every stat holiday this year except for one.
Tips? No. Double time for Sunday? No. Triple time for stat holiday? No Sundays are now part of my schedule and in lieu of stat days I receive a banked day that I can use for a day off later in the year.
I also do not know many waiters or waitresses that work night shift. I don't mean working until 3am. I mean starting shift at midnight and working right through until morning. Sure there are a few, such as Denny's or other 24 hour places but I'm sure most servers sleep every night when most people do.

 

[Toke]

I work for straight pay with no tips. I also work night shift and evenings. I have not had Saturday and Sunday of the same weekend off since February. I have also had to work every stat holiday this year except for one.
Tips? No. Double time for Sunday? No. Triple time for stat holiday? No Sundays are now part of my schedule and in lieu of stat days I receive a banked day that I can use for a day off later in the year.
I also do not know many waiters or waitresses that work night shift. I don't mean working until 3am. I mean starting shift at midnight and working right through until morning. Sure there are a few, such as Denny's or other 24 hour places but I'm sure most servers sleep every night when most people do.

Here we go. You get a banked day for a stat? Waiters don't even get that. Do you make minimum wage? Ever gotten a raise? I'd ask what you do for a living that has you working overnight, but it irrelevant. You like many others, don't dine out at 3AM so few waiters work those hours. But I assure you, go to Chinatown at 4AM and you'll find open restaurants with servers scrambling to adequately serve intoxicated customers hoping they're not too drunk/broke to pay the bill let alone the tip.

You, like many others here, are so sure about the life and job of waiters but can not speak from experience. Find me one poster/person who has served even for a summer that would agree with the opinion of those who have never done it.