Timmies fights min wage hike

[JohnLarue]

That may partially be true, however as i recall the UAW all in cost was $72/hr which was unsustainable
That has been somewhat corrected and probably has contributed towards a a successful re-organization.

I do not care who is in charge. paying out $72 / hr all-in for low and semi-skilled labor is a recipe for disaster
Could another CEO other than Wagner prevented GM from disaster?
Perhaps, but at $72/ hr all in to the UAW, I doubt it.

I have always said , if the performance is not there, fire the guy at the top and replace him.

Given a declining market share and increased competition Wagner should have gotten his labor costs under control years ealier.
He did not & was fired (Too late)

 

[WoodPeckr]

GM was a prime example.... The CEO there drove that company into the ground, and still insists it was not his fault. If the Obama Admin's task force had not asked him to step down, they would not be restructuring so well.

The same should have applied to the crooked Bankster weasels who also should have been booted out, instead of being allowed to once again pass out obscene bonus checks again, all made possible by the taxpayers....

 

[JohnLarue]

Now this is a beautiful sight

"This message is hidden because WoodPeckr is on your ignore list."

I know he is there , but I do not have to read the ramblings of a lunatic

 

[poker]

That may partially be true, however as i recall the UAW all in cost was $72/hr which was unsustainable
That has been somewhat corrected and probably has contributed towards a a successful re-organization.

I do not care who is in charge. paying out $72 / hr all-in for low and semi-skilled labor is a recipe for disaster
Could another CEO other than Wagner prevented GM from disaster?
Perhaps, but at $72/ hr all in to the UAW, I doubt it.

I have always said , if the performance is not there, fire the guy at the top and replace him.

Given a declining market share and increased competition Wagner should have gotten his labor costs under control years ealier.
He did not & was fired (Too late)

Your right.... $72 and hour compared to Toyota's $52 and hour. Perhaps he should have pushed harder for reductions during negotiations. That's not really the point though. Point is, while GM was failing, he was reaping massive rewards despite losing something like 4 billion a quarter. Point is, while AIG collapsed, the executive rewarded themselves handsomely (before they were shamed into giving it back.)

I get that there should be no glass ceiling for capitalism to work.... But if the company was really that profitable, perhaps it should be the investors who reap the rewards.... after all, CEO's are doing what they were paid to do.


Point is, you bet your ass Tim Horton's can afford the proposed minimum wage increases. Do not kid yourselves.

 

[poker]

The same should have applied to the crooked Bankster weasels who also should have been booted out, instead of being allowed to once again pass out obscene bonus checks again, all made possible by the taxpayers....

Sure, but both Clinton and Bush Administrations share the blame for the bank failures. AIG came up with the idea of insuring mortgages without having the money to back up the insurance during Clintons reign, and for all Bush's campaigning, that seemed to slip under his radar too. The banks thought they had their assets covered. I find it tough to blame a banker who bought insurance on all his mortgages, and when he needed to collect, AIG says.... sorry... No money! Mind you, if they used any lending standards at all, they would not have needed to try to collect in the first place.

Cheers!

 

[Keebler Elf]

You clearly don't know how executive bonuses work.

They're not some hairy fairy number pulled out of the air. They're written into the executive's employment contract. If executive accomplishes X, he gets Y bonus.

So if he's getting Y bonus, he's accomplished X. Maybe you're not away of that or maybe he's accomplishing X despite the company going down the tubes, but he has fulfilled his contractual obligation that entitles him to the bonus.

I have a newsflash for you... If you take away bonuses to executives working for companies that are in trouble, guess what? You won't get any good executives willing to work for you. They'll all be working for some other company that will pay a bonus. So now you have a sinking company with a second or third string executive team. Good luck with that.

 

[WoodPeckr]

Delude on frenchy!.....

Now this is a beautiful sight

"This message is hidden because WoodPeckr is on your ignore list."

I know he is there , but I do not have to read the ramblings of a lunatic

LOL!
When it comes to being a loony corporate bootlicking lapdog nobody does that better than you.
It must be the french in you mon ami!....

 

[JohnLarue]

Point is, you bet your ass Tim Horton's can afford the proposed minimum wage increases. Do not kid yourselves.

Not necessarily
Do you have an analysis of the impact on their gross profit margin?

There are thousands of Tim Horton employees working every hour.
It may be a rounding error for the corporation, in which case raising wages maybe the morally correct thing to do.

Since the corporation is lobbying against the minimum wage increase, I suspect it has a larger impact.

The real point is that if is a significant amount, you can bet your ass that shareholders would not like your assumption that they will absorb the increase out of their profits.
They may choose to risk their capital elsewhere

 

[WoodPeckr]

Yeah always BETTER to fark the workers as long as the fat cats get their's first!....

 

[james t kirk]

You clearly don't know how executive bonuses work.

They're not some hairy fairy number pulled out of the air. They're written into the executive's employment contract. If executive accomplishes X, he gets Y bonus.

So if he's getting Y bonus, he's accomplished X. Maybe you're not away of that or maybe he's accomplishing X despite the company going down the tubes, but he has fulfilled his contractual obligation that entitles him to the bonus.

I have a newsflash for you... If you take away bonuses to executives working for companies that are in trouble, guess what? You won't get any good executives willing to work for you. They'll all be working for some other company that will pay a bonus. So now you have a sinking company with a second or third string executive team. Good luck with that.

So how do you explain the Banksters making massive bonuses in the USA after being bailed out by the gov't?

Case in point - AIG.

 

[ogibowt]

That may partially be true, however as i recall the UAW all in cost was $72/hr which was unsustainable
That has been somewhat corrected and probably has contributed towards a a successful re-organization.

I do not care who is in charge. paying out $72 / hr all-in for low and semi-skilled labor is a recipe for disaster
Could another CEO other than Wagner prevented GM from disaster?
Perhaps, but at $72/ hr all in to the UAW, I doubt it.

I have always said , if the performance is not there, fire the guy at the top and replace him.

Given a declining market share and increased competition Wagner should have gotten his labor costs under control years ealier.
He did not & was fired (Too late)

you and your self serving, number crunching...how about this...GM produced cars that nobody wanted...

 

[ogibowt]

LOL!
When it comes to being a loony corporate bootlicking lapdog nobody does that better than you.
It must be the french in you mon ami!....

not necessarily french, Woody...he expropriated his name from a John Candy character in a movie..the name of which escapes me ...

 

[K Douglas]

Sure that'll work. What's next? Indentured servants.

It will work. The minimum wage has far surpassed the level of inflation. Under the McGuinty gov't alone it has gone from $6.95 to now $10. That is a huge burden to place on any kind of business. Tim Horton's is taking the fight on behalf of all businesses because they can afford it. Good for them. It's not just about those who get a raise because of the min wage hike. The business is now forced to hike the salaries of those who making above min wage in order to satisfy worker morale. The policy makers don't get it because they are the real fat cats.......they've never faced the risk of owning a business.

I'm a strong free market advocate, let the labour market determine the optimal wage. It'll be a cold day in hell before Pinko Ontario subscribes to that theory.

 

[danmand]

It will work. The minimum wage has far surpassed the level of inflation. Under the McGuinty gov't alone it has gone from $6.95 to now $10. That is a huge burden to place on any kind of business. Tim Horton's is taking the fight on behalf of all businesses because they can afford it. Good for them.

Heaven forbid, if we should lose a couple of timmies or McDonalds because]
the business model cannot support paying workers a living salary.

 

[fuji]

Minimum wage is not as simple as it appears to be. It has some obvious pro's and con's, but also some non-obvious ones.

One frequently overlooked pro- of raising the minimum wage is that doing so raises the level of training and education present in the country.

Raising the minimum wage can thus help shift a jurisidction into the production of higher value goods and services, by raising the average level of skills and education present in the workforce.

The reason for this is that people who lose their jobs because their value-add falls below the minimum wage tend to return to school (or stay in school) and seek the training and education necessary to raise their value-add.

Similarly employers who have people on the payroll who return less value than they are paid do not always respond by firing those individuals, but instead sometimes respond by training them up to improve their yield.

Whether this is a desirable or undesirable effect very much depends on the situation the country is in, but in the face of free trade, for example, shifting to specialize in high skilled jobs rather than low skilled jobs can be a positive step despite some short/medium term unemployment.

 

[ogibowt]

It will work. The minimum wage has far surpassed the level of inflation. Under the McGuinty gov't alone it has gone from $6.95 to now $10. That is a huge burden to place on any kind of business. Tim Horton's is taking the fight on behalf of all businesses because they can afford it. Good for them. It's not just about those who get a raise because of the min wage hike. The business is now forced to hike the salaries of those who making above min wage in order to satisfy worker morale. The policy makers don't get it because they are the real fat cats.......they've never faced the risk of owning a business.

I'm a strong free market advocate, let the labour market determine the optimal wage. It'll be a cold day in hell before Pinko Ontario subscribes to that theory.

its okay to be a cement headed right wing fruitcake, but at least tell the truth...in terms of wages and the rise of the cost of living, minimum wage is lagging behind pre Mike harris levels..oh and to believe that Tim Hortons, is fighting the good fight on behalf of all businesses, is like living in a marshmellow fairyland...they are fighting their own battles, nothing more and nothing less...so ya lets lower the rates so we can enjoy 80 cent coffee and line the pockets of Timmies board of directors...

 

[ogibowt]

Minimum wage is not as simple as it appears to be. It has some obvious pro's and con's, but also some non-obvious ones.

One frequently overlooked pro- of raising the minimum wage is that doing so raises the level of training and education present in the country.

Raising the minimum wage can thus help shift a jurisidction into the production of higher value goods and services, by raising the average level of skills and education present in the workforce.

The reason for this is that people who lose their jobs because their value-add falls below the minimum wage tend to return to school (or stay in school) and seek the training and education necessary to raise their value-add.

Similarly employers who have people on the payroll who return less value than they are paid do not always respond by firing those individuals, but instead sometimes respond by training them up to improve their yield.

Whether this is a desirable or undesirable effect very much depends on the situation the country is in, but in the face of free trade, for example, shifting to specialize in high skilled jobs rather than low skilled jobs can be a positive step despite some short/medium term unemployment.

fugi, although i agree with you, i think,lol..you and Larue love the text book approach, with all the high and mighty verbiage...in my little world...raising the minimum wage to a decent level is simply fairminded..and just..nothing complicated about it..

 

[fuji]

its okay to be a cement headed right wing fruitcake, but at least tell the truth...in terms of wages and the rise of the cost of living, minimum wage is lagging behind pre Mike harris levels..

I did a fact check on that one myself, but it turns out that surprisingly perhaps he's right: Minimum wage has advanced more than CPI since 1969.

As in my previous post this is not necessarily such a bad thing, it could just mean that we are aiming for a higher skilled workforce in 2009 than we had in 1969.

 

[someone]

The reason for this is that people who lose their jobs because their value-add falls below the minimum wage tend to return to school (or stay in school) and seek the training and education necessary to raise their value-add.

Do you have a reference for this?

BTW, another argument in favour of a minimum wage is that it encourages people to get off welfare and to take minimum wage jobs instead. Robin Boadway at Queens has done work on this and found that in some cases, it can save the government on welfare payments.

 

[69suds]

This is what the minimum wage across Canada was as of Oct 1st this year. Ontario is not the highest.

Province Wage
Alberta $8.80
BC $8.00
Manitoba $9.00
New Brunswick $8.25
Newfoundland $9.00
NWT $8.25
Nova Scotia $8.60
Nunavut $10.00
Ontario $9.50
PEI $8.40
Quebec $9.00
Saskatchewan $9.25
Yukon $8.89

This is the actual breakdown in Ontario now and in March 2010 when it next goes up. Assuming every other province stays the same, Ontario will be the highest at $10.25.

http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/info/minimumwage/

I think the minimum wage needs to take into account cost of living in the least and yes I believe Tim Horton's can still afford to pay more. I don't think their all in is more than $25/hour. It's supposed to be a donut shop not a cash cow. If they want me to even consider their argument, they need to provide their P&L. I want to see their margins.