interesting review of Michael Moore's new movie

[gramage]

interesting assessment by some progressives who think he went to far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTF3B8YBU5I

The thing that they said that really has me thinking is they admit Moore is a propaganda film maker who sensationalizes issues, but they defend him in that saying the left needs that to compete with the myriad of propaganda creating organizations from the right (freedomworks, worldnetdaily, Michael Savage, I could list another dozen with a total audience that far outstrips Moore's if I cared to start digging up names right now.) That somehow Moore interviewing a priest who says capitalism is evil, and a guy polishing his gun saying I hope somebody shoots somebody is made ok because of guys carrying AR-15's screaming about nazi's.

I completely disagree with that. What I think needs to happen is every time Michael Steele or Sarah Palin or a GOP Senator/congressman/governor starts rambling on about death panels and government rationing or control or denying treatment based on race the media needs to cut them off, point out the lie, and refuse to let them spread their message until they admit to what the truth is. The result would be zero coverage of the GOP outside maybe 4 people for months, possibly all the way to the midterm election.

You fight lies with truth and denial of access, not more lies.

 

[WoodPeckr]

We Need Folks looking out for US instead of Corporations!

Great clip!
Thanks for posting.

Mikey Moore is one TOP OF HIS GAME HERE!
Mikey gives an excellent US History lesson the weak-of-mind righties will not like to RE-LEARN!

This is looking like one of his best flicks yet!....


The problems we face today will not be solved by the minds that created them

 

[BottomsUp]

Just watched Lefty Moore being interviewed by Wolf Blitzer, and he's adamant about America pulling out of Afghanistan...can't win yada yada. Then, after Blitzer challenges him on capturing those responsible for 9/11, what do you know, he says absolutely yes they need to be captured and brought to justice. Does he think OBL is just going to walk into US hands without combat??? Lefty speaks from both sides of his rather large mouth.

 

[Don]

You fight lies with truth and denial of access, not more lies.

right on. I actually hold the left to a higher standard than the right because the left likes to pride themselves as exposing the lies of the right. So when they lie, it is even worse - like a priest who preaches to everyone but then is commits sins of his own.

But unfortunately the world doesn't work that way. That is why the truth often lies in the middle of two opposing sides.

 

[Aardvark154]

What I think needs to happen is every time Michael Steele or Sarah Palin or a GOP Senator/congressman/governor starts rambling on about death panels and government rationing or control or denying treatment based on race the media needs to cut them off, point out the lie, and refuse to let them spread their message until they admit to what the truth is. The result would be zero coverage of the GOP outside maybe 4 people for months, possibly all the way to the midterm election.

Wow that sounds like the kind of place where people would want to live. - Big Brother knows what is best for you.

I realize it’s a pipedream but how long do you think it would take for either Congress/Parliament to pass a law mandating free air time for politicians, or for the Revolution to start (we can take odds on whether the Revolution would begin before Congress/Parliament could act).

 

[gramage]

Wow that sounds like the kind of place where people would want to live. - Big Brother knows what is best for you.

I realize it’s a pipedream but how long do you think it would take for either Congress/Parliament to pass a law mandating free air time for politicians, or for the Revolution to start (we can take odds on whether the Revolution would begin before Congress/Parliament could act).

Big brother? I'm talking about how news organizations should report what is said: report the truth and point out then ignore the liars.

Let them legislate all the free air time they want is the news reports whats true rather then just whats said with no care to whether it's true it would lead to a complete reformation of what political movements got coverage.

Saw a clip of O'Reilly last week I thought said it all. O'Reilly is going on about how the right is winning on health reform. His guest Alan Combs tries to point out the inaccuracy of what is being said, but Bill says, it doesn't matter they're winning. Thats sports journalism not political journalism.

 

[Aardvark154]

Saw a clip of O'Reilly last week I thought said it all. O'Reilly is going on about how the right is winning on health reform. His guest Alan Combs tries to point out the inaccuracy of what is being said, but Bill says, it doesn't matter they're winning. Thats sports journalism not political journalism.

Bill O'Reilly does talk people down. It is not polite, but you know that when you go on his show. There are lots of other shows including on FOX where people are given their say and then rebutted - personaly I believe that a better model.

 

[Garrett]

Does he think OBL is just going to walk into US hands without combat??? Lefty speaks from both sides of his rather large mouth.

Well, I think he is saying the current method ain't working too well.

I find it curious you fixate on Moore's mouth so much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlUcUfHkdYk

 

[Gyaos]

I'll take this centrist position.

-- Moore went after Wall Street crooks. Great.
-- What is Michael Moore's bank account? Huge.

Gyaos Baltar.

 

[WoodPeckr]

Lefty speaks from both sides of his rather large mouth.

LOL!
Mikey is just giving the righties a dose of their own medicine!
You sound almost jealous at Mikey doing it so well!....



The problems we face today will not be solved by the minds that created them

 

[BottomsUp]

I'll take this centrist position.

-- Moore went after Wall Street crooks. Great.
-- What is Michael Moore's bank account? Huge.

Gyaos Baltar.

Good point. When Larry King was interviewing him last night, a caller wrote to ask him how much money he has, and what he's doing for social causes. He answered the second part, but totally ducked the part of how much cash he has.

 

[gramage]

Bill O'Reilly does talk people down. It is not polite, but you know that when you go on his show. There are lots of other shows including on FOX where people are given their say and then rebutted - personaly I believe that a better model.

My point is not that he talked down to him, my point is that he said what mattered was who was winning the argument, not whether or not what they were saying was true, and to me that is not journalism. If what your saying is false you should not receive coverage that presents your argument as valid, because it isn't.

 

[BottomsUp]

LOL!
Mikey is just giving the righties a dose of their own medicine!
You sound almost jealous at Mikey doing it so well!....



The problems we face today will not be solved by the minds that created them

Yeah, I'm about as jealous of Lefty as I am of a zebra being chased down by a cheetah.

 

[WoodPeckr]

Anyways, Mikey has a great new Flick.
Be sure YOU see it to learn a thing or to about Capitalism as it exists today in the USA, eh grasshopper!....



The problems we face today will not be solved by the minds that created them

 

[BottomsUp]

Anyways, Mikey has a great new Flick.
Be sure YOU see it to learn a thing or to about Capitalism as it exists today in the USA, eh grasshopper!....



The problems we face today will not be solved by the minds that created them

Thanks locust, but I think I'll pass. When I need to fall asleep, I'd rather be in my bed than be in a theatre seat watching that dipshit.

 

[WoodPeckr]

Thanks locust, but I think I'll pass. When I need to fall asleep, I'd rather be in my bed than be in a theatre seat watching that dipshit.

As long as you have a mind capable of critical thought you won't fall asleep during a Mikey Moore movie.
However if you have a 'dittohead' mind like Corn Flake, you may have problems without having Mullah Limbaugh to 'coach' you through the flick!....



The problems we face today will not be solved by the minds that created them

 

[Aardvark154]

If what your saying is false you should not receive coverage that presents your argument as valid, because it isn't.

The problem is who determines what or what isn't false.

Needless to say there are some issues where that is quite easy e.g. I write that Toronto is on Lake Huron. Where it gets much harder and where the arguments generally seem to lie is in matters basicly of opinion. Can the War in Afghanistan be won. Was the TARP program in the U.S. a wise action. what type Health Insurance Reform is needed in the U.S., if the Government falls do the Liberals shoulder the blame?

To take one example, what to one person is "end of life planning" having the elderly make decisions before their family is trying to make decisions without knowing their wishes, is to another person a "death panel", when they look at how are costs to be cut when there is a finite amount of money, and presure on the elderly or those with highly expensive care not to prolong life.

If one says I'm not going to allow you to present your opinion that they are "death panels" is not the news outlet then setting itself up as the arbitor of "what is truth." And does the news outlet know as much about the issue as those making the comments. * Should they not instead be presenting all sides of the argument for the electorate to make up their own minds?




* as one example dealing with another thread over the past two days several news outlets stated the Age of Consent in the U.K. is 16 and if the 15 year old girl had only been 16 the relationship with her teacher would have been legal. However, they neglected to point out (or perhaps know) that there is a "Persons in Positions of Trust" exception that ups the age of consent to 18. Now what if this was a situation where the news outlet was in charge of "determining the truth" would they have said that someone who said the relationship would still have been illegal was wrong?

I realize this post is getting overly long and involved, and I wish I saw this as a simple issue.

 

[gramage]

To take one example, what to one person is "end of life planning" having the elderly make decisions before their family is trying to make decisions without knowing their wishes, is to another person a "death panel", when they look at how are costs to be cut when there is a finite amount of money, and presure on the elderly or those with highly expensive care not to prolong life.

.

Anyone who thinks helping someone decide what they want is a death panel is either an idiot or a liar, in the case of Sarah Palin who invented the term possibly both. They are opposite things because end of life counselling is YOU deciding what happens, a death panel is THE PANEL deciding, and if we can't insist both sides work from the same facts on that basic level then the news should be ended as a concept because it cannot perform it's basic function of informing the public of what is happening.

This is why conspiracy theories like 9/11 was an inside job are given such credit, because it takes no more manipulation to make that an equal argument to the truth then it does death panels.

 

[gramage]

* as one example dealing with another thread over the past two days several news outlets stated the Age of Consent in the U.K. is 16 and if the 15 year old girl had only been 16 the relationship with her teacher would have been legal. However, they neglected to point out (or perhaps know) that there is a "Persons in Positions of Trust" exception that ups the age of consent to 18. Now what if this was a situation where the news outlet was in charge of "determining the truth" would they have said that someone who said the relationship would still have been illegal was wrong?

If you make a mistake like that which will happen you make the correction in the most public venue possible. Don't hide from it, embrace it. Because if you show a willingness to admit mistakes people are more likely to trust you when you stand by something.

 

[Scarey]

Good point. When Larry King was interviewing him last night, a caller wrote to ask him how much money he has, and what he's doing for social causes. He answered the second part, but totally ducked the part of how much cash he has.

He has no reason to tell a caller how much money he has.Unless any citizen has gotten his wealth from illegal means NO ONE should have to tell another citizen what their net worth is.....No one...Republican,Democrat,Independant..what have you.It was a stupid question and he ignored it rightly so.