These other ethnic groups arrived recently. The one that is the focus of this discussion is one that arrived in 'America' a long time ago and has been here at a disadvantageous position for much longer. They did not arrive under a system that only admits those who have higher levels of education and/or income.
Shooting at Eaton Centre
- Thread starter gcostanza
- Start date
Riiiiight because white people are never approached by children's aid society, white people never go broke, white people never drop out of high school and white people never commit crimes.Other ethnic groups take care of their family responsibilities, businesses and education for their children and that is why they don't go around shooting each other (not to say we all perfect either).
Fair enough but did you know that the Irish actually arrived in Canada before the subject ethnic group and suffered greater discrimination and yet they pulled themselves up the social/economic ladder (which is not to say there are no Irish criminals). Then there are the Jews who arrived in large numbers around the 1890's and were also subject to great discrimination followed by the Japanese, Chinese, East Indians, etc. The Chinese arrived in the 1860's as basically "slaves".The one that is the focus of this discussion is one that arrived in 'America' a long time ago and has been here at a disadvantageous position for much longer.
I did say that we are not all perfect but please don't use that as an excuse to go around shooting up Yonge Street and the Eaton Centre.Riiiiight because white people are never approached by children's aid society, white people never go broke, white people never drop out of high school and white people never commit crimes.
They were slaves who were not considered human?Fair enough but did you know that the Irish actually arrived in Canada before the subject ethnic group and suffered greater discrimination and yet they pulled themselves up the social/economic ladder (which is not to say there are no Irish criminals). Then there are the Jews who arrived in large numbers around the 1890's and were also subject to great discrimination followed by the Japanese, Chinese, East Indians, etc. The Chinese arrived in the 1860's as basically "slaves".
By the way can you supply any stats that prove your point?Ok, I'll give it a shot. Canada is composed of many ethnic groups, almost all of whom arrived in Canada piss poor. Yet, there are members of only one ethnic group (thank goodness it is only one group and not more) that go around shooting up Yonge Street and the Eaton Centre? The answer is simple. Other ethnic groups take care of their family responsibilities, businesses and education for their children and that is why they don't go around shooting each other (not to say we all perfect either).
For example, can you tell us how many white criminals there are to white people? And how does that percentage compare to blacks?
Or can you show that crime rates vs immigration rates?
Using your logic we can say that only whites are chopping up bodies and mailing them. That's just stupid.
The problem I have is that you are trying to say that there is a big difference between blacks and other races. I say the difference is much closer than you'd think.I did say that we are not all perfect but please don't use that as an excuse to go around shooting up Yonge Street and the Eaton Centre.
It is not an excuse. I, like frankcastle, are appauled by it. However, I'm not really talking about that one event, I'm talking about the potential reasons that certain people resort to being involved in certain activities (i.e. gangs).I did say that we are not all perfect but please don't use that as an excuse to go around shooting up Yonge Street and the Eaton Centre.
I was trying to stay on topic. I think there is already a thread on the "cannibal". BTW: There are success stories of folks who immigrated from the islands, including at least 2 billionaires. Then there is the uplifting story of the founder of Turtle Island, a company that currently employs 600 people and was started from by an immigrant from the islands who used to 'dumpster dive". Yes, success is possible without resorting to gun violence.Using your logic we can say that only whites are chopping up bodies and mailing them. That's just stupid.
Since the police is not allowed to keep race based stats, we will never know. Yes, no ethnic group is free of criminals but some have much more than their fair share.The problem I have is that you are trying to say that there is a big difference between blacks and other races. I say the difference is much closer than you'd think.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada
In 2006 blacks make up 2.5% of the population of the country. Or 820 000 roughly in canada.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2007/07/18/crime-stats.html
The national crime rate in 2006 was 7518 crimes per 100 000 people.
Of that 100 000 people......2500 were black.
That means every black person in Canada has to commit 3 crimes to account for all the crime. That is ridiculous.
In 2006 blacks make up 2.5% of the population of the country. Or 820 000 roughly in canada.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2007/07/18/crime-stats.html
The national crime rate in 2006 was 7518 crimes per 100 000 people.
Of that 100 000 people......2500 were black.
That means every black person in Canada has to commit 3 crimes to account for all the crime. That is ridiculous.
So then if we will never know then how can you be so sure you are right? You can't use that argument to dismiss me while at the same time making a claim with the absent stats.Since the police is not allowed to keep race based stats, we will never know. Yes, no ethnic group is free of criminals but some have much more than their fair share.
More to the point you are just like Fuji. More interested in finger pointing than really discussing solutions.
To stay on topic, I'll try to get stats on Black males murdered by other Black males. I think murder stats are available.So then if we will never know then how can you be so sure you are right? You can't use that argument to dismiss me while at the same time making a claim with the absent stats.
In 1999 blacks made up 6% of the prison population.
So it stands to reason that the other 94% of crime as done by other races.....
http://www.internetjournalofcrimino... Diversity and Criminal Justice in Canada.pdf
Blacks at the time of this paper make up 2% of Canada's pop and 6% of prison pop
By way of comparison
7.2% pop was asian and 2.4% of prison pop was asian
2.8% pop was aboriginal and 18% of prisons are aboriginals.
So sounds to me we have a much bigger aboriginal problem.
So it stands to reason that the other 94% of crime as done by other races.....
http://www.internetjournalofcrimino... Diversity and Criminal Justice in Canada.pdf
Blacks at the time of this paper make up 2% of Canada's pop and 6% of prison pop
By way of comparison
7.2% pop was asian and 2.4% of prison pop was asian
2.8% pop was aboriginal and 18% of prisons are aboriginals.
So sounds to me we have a much bigger aboriginal problem.
Or another way to look at it is 7500 crimes/100 000 people..... if 6% in jail are black that means they are probably responsible for roughly 450 of the 7500 crimes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Incarceration_rates_worldwide.gif
Incarceration rates of the US vs Canada.
The US has 7x as many people on jail vs Canada when compared on a per 100 000 person basis
Incarceration rates of the US vs Canada.
The US has 7x as many people on jail vs Canada when compared on a per 100 000 person basis
Or even worse this means we should be afraid of the 70 some odd percent of the prisoners who are not black, asian or aboriginals. Seeing as I can't think of a large latin problem that leaves use with quite a large number of white/euro prisoners.In 1999 blacks made up 6% of the prison population.
So it stands to reason that the other 94% of crime as done by other races.....
http://www.internetjournalofcrimino... Diversity and Criminal Justice in Canada.pdf
Blacks at the time of this paper make up 2% of Canada's pop and 6% of prison pop
By way of comparison
7.2% pop was asian and 2.4% of prison pop was asian
2.8% pop was aboriginal and 18% of prisons are aboriginals.
So sounds to me we have a much bigger aboriginal problem.
to a racist yea. but to a normal person its youth just mimicking what fashion they see in the media. and again kids dont even wear baggy pants. you think its 1993 while your racist mindset is like the 50's.They're at a minimum perpetrating the culture that promotes the violence, so harass away. The black community apparently tolerates these idiots, but the rest of us shouldn't.
Actually I don't agree. Even those members of the black community who are not engaging in crime appear to support the criminal ethos. In other words, they glamorize the thug lifestyle and that contributes to crime. Therefore the majority really ought to be penalized, until they shape up.Okay first off racial profiling is plain wrong as it is penalizing the majority for the acts of the minority.
While this is true, in my experience the blacks who live the good life distance themselves from the "black community". Certainly there are many of them. When I say racial profiling, I guess I don't just mean skin colour. I mean going after that entire culture. Not everyone whose skin is black is part of it. "Race" is probably then the wrong word--perhaps we should say, "cultural profiling".In other words there are plenty of honest hard working black people who do not commit crimes and should not go through life being harassed for others actions.
Then your solution will fail, because you aren't confronting the problem itself. It is not the case that all poor uneducated people who live in bad areas are equally likely to commit crimes. Blacks commit far more than others in similar socio-economic circumstances, particularly violent crimes.First, we have to understnad that what I am suggesting is not based on race because I see the risk factors for crime to effect all races namely income, education, where you live, what your family is like and what your firends are like.
You were nearer the mark when you said "what your family is like", that along with who your friends are, what culture you choose to participate in.
If your solution doesn't speak to that, it isn't a solution. It's an excuse.
Less than it happens in the US, because, as I pointed out, we have fewer blacks here than the US does.But how often does carjacking happen in Toronto or Canada for that matter?
I absolutely agree that they should! And then they should use that data to profile people and go after the highest value targets. The reason why they don't is a bunch of people who are in denial about the cultural basis of black crime have insisted that it's wrong for the police to collect statistics based on race.Continuing with the idea of perception..... why doesn't the police put out stats showing how many crimes, arrests and convictions that they have made and coorelate it to race?
It's meant to be a deterrent. The idea would be to make life so miserable if you went around with that crowd that fewer people would opt for the lifestyle.Okay next topic. Whom to address? If you are pulling over cars with black guys in hoodies hoping to reduce the crime rate you are too late. It's like putting on snow tires after you put your car into a ditch.
We've tried that, but the problem community opts out--they go around insulting other blacks who get good educations, making them feel bad about themselves. There really is a pernicious, destructive, anti-social culture there, and this needs to be addressed. In short, until you address the cultural aspects you will find that the people you are trying to help will opt out of your help.We really need to target the youth and the importance of a good education.
This is what I call a Big Excuse. It's a pile of bullshit. I have seen poor families where the parents worked two jobs, with five kids, and barely enough money for food--who put all five kids through university. Oh yeah, they were chinese. Not black. Blacks use this as an excuse. It's bullshit. Where there is a will, there is a way. Chinese families value education and do whatever they can to get their kids through school. Black families value bling and violence, and their kids wind up in gangs.Beheviour problems and truancy in school are closely tied to the lack of success a child is having in school. Furthermore, if parental involvement is lacking that's another strong factor. And on top of that, school is modelled with the assumption that Billy has someone to help him with his homework. But if mom is exhausted making ends meet on minimum wage and can barely read and write how is Billy supposed to do the work?
Yup. Therein lies the problem. You can throw all the money you like at education, but they don't value it. How will you solve THAT problem?Also, if the child doesn't see education being stressed at home they won't see much value in it.
Some of these are good ideas. Uniforms in schools would go after the gang culture by preventing the dress from entering the school. Other things here are just bullshit excuses--the problem is NOT that kids are hungry. Other poor families with superior values manage to find a way to get their kids through school. So I don't buy those sorts of excuses.-getting smaller class setting for students who are struggling as soon as grade 1 (if english is 60 minutes we need the teacher to be able to give more than 2 to 3 minutes to each child. And in reality it will be less that as they must manage the class_
-afterschool homework program (heck extend the school day so that kids can work on the things that they have learned with individual or small group help)
-breakfast and lunch programs (many kids go to school hungry)
-uniforms(that way kids don't have to worry about wearing the latest fashions especially if they can't afford it)
-have more counsellors who can take the time to make relationships with at risk kids
-expose kids to more opportunities (some kids never leave their neighbourhood or town)...... this is a big one on why the whole city needs to help and not just the black community..... kids need to be exposed to as many new things as possible and see the world beyond their block.
-police stationed at each school instead of dropping by from time to time...... that way the first time they meet a cop it isn't as a suspect
-more financial aid for post secondary education..... the debt that students amass is pretty scarey and some kids can't imagine coming up with that much money much less pay it off.
-continue to change the perception of foster parents and adoptions, people could make serious changes and impact on older kids who need a home just as much as the highly sought after babie
-more counsellors and support for struggling parents, if you are in a low income situation and trying to raise a child a caring ear might go a long way
-maybe more partnerships with programs like scouts, big brother/sisters, sports, and arts programs to give kids chances to do things that they may never try due to financial restrictions
But the stuff you wrote that goes after the cultural elements, like school uniforms, building relationships with police, etc., that stuff might make a difference.
Just note though--something you really do know, but won't admit--poor families from other cultures don't have any problem with building relationships with police. There are issues here that are very specific to black culture, and they are very pernicious.
Yeah, cops probably will never admit it, but I bet they profile like crazynot if the person 'dressing like a goon' isnt a perpetrator. the star already showed that the TPS has been doing racial profiling for years. so it doesnt work
