Zo sticks it to the Raps

[MRMARCUS]

I second matrix's comments. The logistics of that trade make no sense, why the fcuk would you get Alonzo only to turn around and pay him $10 mill.
I always liked "wince" carter(that was a good one) and it urks me to see him score 40+ points a night with the Nets. I thought Grunwald made some crazy deals, but that one takes the cake.
For one of the top five players in the league, Raptors got nada.

 

[to-guy69]

For one of the top five players in the league, Raptors got nada.

Just for the record, Carter is NOT one of the top 5 players in the league but it wasn't a good trade....I agree.

I put Garnett, Duncan, A.I., Kobe, Shaq, Lebron, McGrady...all before Carter.

 

[Coach]

At the beginning of the season Carter barely made the top 50. He is on a roll, enjoy it while it lasts. It won't be too long before he breaks a toenail, or his Mom sends him to his room.

 

[Big Papa Smurf]

First, Mourning's contract is guaranteed and it is not insured. If Babcock refused to pay Mourning, then Mourning could have just retired and collected all 17 million still owed to him. Babcock knew that Mourning would not play for the Raps. He knew that there was a possibility we would have to buy him out. Babcock's intent was to acquire the draft picks because the Raptors are in a rebuilding process with no tradable assets, except for Bosh, Marshall, and Araujo.

I think that all of you overestimate Vince Carter's value. He was being shopped in the offseason. Orlando's GM balked at dealing Steve Francis for him. The Sonics were not interested in dealing Ray Allen for him, even though Allen was in the final year of his contract. The Blazers were the only team willing to deal for Carter, but were not willing to take on Jalen Rose's contract. It's even worse when he was giving a half-assed effort on the floor for the Raps early in the season, and throw in the fact that he can easily be sidelined for half the season with a vaginal muscle pull, then you can see why his value is so low. Babcock got a decent deal for Carter.

 

[MRMARCUS]

The problem is the players you mentioned would not want to play in Canada. I am sure you are aware of the incident where Francis was drafted by the Grizzlies. A lot of teams did not want Vince because he showed no heart. When he is on, he is easily a top 10 player and could be a top 5.

 

[slowandeasy]

First, Mourning's contract is guaranteed and it is not insured. If Babcock refused to pay Mourning, then Mourning could have just retired and collected all 17 million still owed to him. Babcock knew that Mourning would not play for the Raps. He knew that there was a possibility we would have to buy him out. Babcock's intent was to acquire the draft picks because the Raptors are in a rebuilding process with no tradable assets, except for Bosh, Marshall, and Araujo.

I think that all of you overestimate Vince Carter's value. He was being shopped in the offseason. Orlando's GM balked at dealing Steve Francis for him. The Sonics were not interested in dealing Ray Allen for him, even though Allen was in the final year of his contract. The Blazers were the only team willing to deal for Carter, but were not willing to take on Jalen Rose's contract. It's even worse when he was giving a half-assed effort on the floor for the Raps early in the season, and throw in the fact that he can easily be sidelined for half the season with a vaginal muscle pull, then you can see why his value is so low. Babcock got a decent deal for Carter.

All good points Big Papa, but you forget the one thing that the Raps could have done!!! Bench Vince, then suspend him if he balks at being the 12th man. The draft picks are a crap shoot for the Raps, so why bother. Why pay Alonzo so much money for nothing!!! The Raps management had the opportunity to show that it had some balls... that they were a serious organization.... instead they will continue to be a second tier NBA club, still worrying about whether Antonio Davis' kids will learn about America in our Cdn school cirriculum...

The Raps have the same lineup as they would have had they just benched Carter.... except they would still have $10,000,000 in their pockets

 

[Coach]

Well said Big Papa.
Benching Vince would have caused a big uproar in T.O., the media would have created a big controversy. Vince would have sat on the bench and collected his money, and he has value as an asset. Benching him would have diminished his value even more. The Raps would have got even less for Wince.
Removing the cancer improved the club overall. Paying $10 million was a cost of doing business. It stinks, but that is the NBA. The players run the league.

 

[Kwazy]

Just for the record, Carter is NOT one of the top 5 players in the league but it wasn't a good trade....I agree.

I put Garnett, Duncan, A.I., Kobe, Shaq, Lebron, McGrady...all before Carter.

..AND any starter from Phoenix, Sacramento, Dallas, Dwayne Wade, Parker, Kidd, Magliore, Yao, Illgauskas, Paul Pierce, Jermaine Oneil, Ray Allen, Baron Davis, Richard Hamilton, Kirilenko, Grant Hill, STeve Francis, Elton Brand, Lamar Odom,........ie: there are many better defenders who can put up double doubles, and don't Wince hardly as much!!!

 

[Big Papa Smurf]

The problem is the players you mentioned would not want to play in Canada. I am sure you are aware of the incident where Francis was drafted by the Grizzlies. A lot of teams did not want Vince because he showed no heart. When he is on, he is easily a top 10 player and could be a top 5.

The fact that Steve Francis didn't want to play with Vancouver is irrelevant. What is relevant is that Orlando's GM didn't want to trade Francis for Carter, because he questioned Carter's heart.

I don't know where you got the idea that Ray Allen doesn't want to play in Toronto. He's stated that he would be willing to play in Toronto because he loves the city and comes here often in the summer. He even said this to the Toronto media when Seattle came here to play. The stigma of the Raptors being in Canada is slowly fading.

The draft picks are a crap shoot for the Raps, so why bother.

So what makes it any different if it was the 1st pick in the draft? It was a crap shoot when Washington selected Kwame Brown #1 over Pau Gasol. It was a crap shoot when Jay Williams, Mike Dunleavy, and others were selected ahead of Amare Stoudemire at #9. There are always good players available in the draft. It just depends on Toronto's scouting.

Like I said, the Raps have little trade assets. Those draft picks are very valuable. Who says that Babcock is going to keep them during the draft? He may deal both of them for a higher pick. He may deal one of them along with a bad contact for some young talent. Those picks give him more flexibility to make trade than Vince Carter alone.

The Raps have the same lineup as they would have had they just benched Carter.... except they would still have $10,000,000 in their pockets

Yes. Ten million saved, but still the same lineup hampered with marginal players with unmovable contracts, one badly fading so-called franchise player and a guaranteed lottery pick. How can you rebuild with that?

 

[slowandeasy]

I'm confused

Like I said, the Raps have little trade assets. Those draft picks are very valuable. Who says that Babcock is going to keep them during the draft? He may deal both of them for a higher pick. He may deal one of them along with a bad contact for some young talent. Those picks give him more flexibility to make trade than Vince Carter alone.


Yes. Ten million saved, but still the same lineup hampered with marginal players with unmovable contracts, one badly fading so-called franchise player and a guaranteed lottery pick. How can you rebuild with that?

I don't understand you logic. You say that a guy that average 25pts/game in one fully NBA season not too long ago has no value, what makes you think that a couple of marginal draft pics would give them more flexibility?

So what have you gotten out of the trade? The Williams brothers are not non entities? The draft picks are not here yet, so we have the same line up, we are out $10 million and we have some draft picks that we hope to be able to package in a deal for Jalen Rose...another player with a huge contract that we might not be able to trade...

As much as I despised what Wince was doing here, I believe that his value was much better than two unproven draft picks...

You bench the fucker and let him rot in hell until he is ready to play or quit. You suspend his ass and try to get him to quit on the team. In the meantime you try to motivate him to understand that if he plays better, his chances of getting out of hell gets better....

I realize that Greek is a coveted thing here on TERB, but I believe that its delivering not receiving!!!!

Yes the players run the league, but the owners too often capitulate....