He's the only reason why they are winning of late. Alot of teams would be interested in him and he'd bring big time stuff.
yet, no one wants to trade him.
yet, no one wants to trade him.
You guys want the Leafs to tank, but no one says trade Vesa?
- Thread starter 21pro
- Start date
Toskala is solid, he's only 30, his best years are ahead of him, he's locked in for another 2 years at $4 million, which is not cheap but not overpriced. He's also a good quiet invidivual, no drama (a la Emery), and has proven to be reliable. Should he want to stick around, he will still be effective and in his prime if/when the Leafs rebuilding efforts start to show in 5 years or so. Now the real question is why Fletcher doesn't force Maurice (who won't be around in October) to play Raycroft more, that would be a guarantee of more losses. He is a minor league goalie at best.
i'd think trading Vesa away woulda been a huge mistake... equally as ridding of Sundin. rather, i was trying to provoke discussion out of you leaf fans that cheer for a loss.
you know, as bad as the penguins ever were, I never cheered for a loss. not once.
you know, as bad as the penguins ever were, I never cheered for a loss. not once.
Safe to say Toskala, Sundin, and at times Antropov...have been the only consistent players all season. Don't say Kaberle, he's been playing way below the expectations, his defensive play has been suspect this year.
Detroit and New Jersey haven't had a high draft pick in over a decade. Yet there they are high in the standings, and they've been arguably the two most successful teams of the last decade.
On the other hand, Atlanta made no effort to be competitive their first few years in the league. That got them a top 3 pick four years in a row. With all those picks 5 years later, they still haven't won a single playoff game and likely won't even make the playoffs this year.
Tanking is for losers. Invest in scouting and player development instead of trying to lose.
Do you want to be like Detroit and New Jersey, or do you want to be like Atlanta?
On the other hand, Atlanta made no effort to be competitive their first few years in the league. That got them a top 3 pick four years in a row. With all those picks 5 years later, they still haven't won a single playoff game and likely won't even make the playoffs this year.
Tanking is for losers. Invest in scouting and player development instead of trying to lose.
Do you want to be like Detroit and New Jersey, or do you want to be like Atlanta?
*shakes his head* why would anyone in their right mind trade away a winning goalie? It's not like they have any sort of backup in the wings....shit, that would have been the dumbest move they could make. You can survive without superstars but you cannot survive without at least one good goalie.....
I can't stand Sundin anymore. The guy royally screwed the team big time with that refusal to be traded thing.
Instead of going on a new adventure to win a Stanley Cup with a new group of guys he embraces stagnation, entropy and decay by remaining with the Leafs. I will always remember the guy as a complete putz because of this thing and I hope the fans boo him every time he touches the puck to close of the season.
This idea of giving all these players no trade contracts creates too much of a relaxed country club environment on the team where the lunatics run the asylum. All these players with no trades can kick their feet up, relax, and give management the finger when they want to change the makeup and move the team in a new direction.
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/Sports/Hockey/2008/02/26/4877055-sun.html
http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/306778
Instead of going on a new adventure to win a Stanley Cup with a new group of guys he embraces stagnation, entropy and decay by remaining with the Leafs. I will always remember the guy as a complete putz because of this thing and I hope the fans boo him every time he touches the puck to close of the season.
This idea of giving all these players no trade contracts creates too much of a relaxed country club environment on the team where the lunatics run the asylum. All these players with no trades can kick their feet up, relax, and give management the finger when they want to change the makeup and move the team in a new direction.
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/Sports/Hockey/2008/02/26/4877055-sun.html
http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/306778
That's a really good point! Trade him, and put Raycroft in net. Let him ern his big bucks.21pro said:
Then it's obvious that they're tanking just for the sake of tanking. They could justify sitting Toskala with the intent of losing by giving Pogge some time. That way they can say they're grooming him and the tanking is less obvious.Neverenuff$ said:
Hey, I think the consensus is show case trade bait, give experience to younger players they wish to keep ...
If they win great if they don't theres an advantage there as well ..
if the leafs lose a bunch of games are they "Tanking"... if so they could've been accused of Tanking many times !
If they win great if they don't theres an advantage there as well ..
if the leafs lose a bunch of games are they "Tanking"... if so they could've been accused of Tanking many times !
I'd say the keepers for the leafs have got to be the following:
Vesa Toskala
Thomas Kaberle
Carlo Colaiacovo
Nik Antropov
Anton Straulman
maybe alex steen, though he didn't turn out as expected...
as for the rest, they can all go.
Vesa Toskala
Thomas Kaberle
Carlo Colaiacovo
Nik Antropov
Anton Straulman
maybe alex steen, though he didn't turn out as expected...
as for the rest, they can all go.
I think that I finally get this Leafs Nation thing.. and in general I think that most of you are pretty nuts!!!!!
The kicker came when I heard Andy Frost indulge this idiotic idea of how the Leafs can lose on purpose.. I had thought that he was one broadcaster who was better than that.
These sorts of lame-brained ideas are why the Leafs continue to lose.
The kicker came when I heard Andy Frost indulge this idiotic idea of how the Leafs can lose on purpose.. I had thought that he was one broadcaster who was better than that.
These sorts of lame-brained ideas are why the Leafs continue to lose.
So, what's your point ? If you want to be a Leaf basher, you'll have to be a little more specific.slowandeasy said:
I'm a Leaf fan but I differ from most others as I have accepted the reality that the chances for this team to make the playoffs is from slim to none, and it's time to dismentle and rebuild the team.
To do that you would need to have as many high draft choices as possible and what's wrong in real Leaf fans' hoping that they now lose more than they win ? Cliff Fletcher will never admit it publicly but it's quite obvious that he's of the same opinion and he has publicly announce that by the start of next season this team will be drastically different, hinting there'll be more trades, buyouts or assignments to Marlies involving all players with or without Notrades.
Look at Ottawa and Pittsburg, they were bottom feeders of the league for many years and accumulated many high draft choices before they became real good teams. You would be real naive to think that they never "tank" games in those losing years. We're Leaf fans and we don't have to be politically correct in expressing our opinions.
Smuddan
1. Leaf fans need to learn how to read as well. I was not bashing the leafs,smuddan said:
I was bashing anyone who thinks that losing on purpose is a good idea.
2. Obviously many Leafs fans have never played sports at a high level to
understand the need to develop a winning attitude. You don't build it by
announcing that you are going to try to lose games. Are they going to
cut every single player on the roster and start over again?
3. The Leafs has been bottom feeders for 20 of the last 25 years!!!
How many times are they going to "rebuild"!!!!!!
4. Draft Picks??? The Leafs record sucks drafting players.
5. Draft Picks??? It's a lottery you idiots... You cannot guarantee your
position. Stamkos is the consensus # 1. Given the leafs record in drafts
does it makes sense to tank games just to move up one or two spots?
6. Teams have tanked games in the past... but their management have never
been stupid enough to even let on that they might be considering such
a stupid thing...
7. The things that Cliff should have done, he did not.
Kubina, McCable and perhaps Tucker should have been told that
they were not going to play for the Leafs again. That
they were going to play for the Marlies or perhaps the
East Coast Hockey League....Unless they accepted
a trade.
Having said that, the leafs have some decent parts in place. They
need to start a winning attitude. How they handle things this year will determine how they start off next year. One thing I know for sure is that intentionally losing is not the way to go..
I believe what you're saying is that building a winning attitude is much more important having high draft choices for the Leafs to rebuild.slowandeasy said:
You are in fact contradicting yourself - you don't any confidence in this team's management to rebuild with draft choices, then what gives you reasons to believe they can build a winning attitude ?
Second question, how do you expect the team to build a winning attitude if they don't even have good players ? You just don't understand that in this salary cap world there's no other way to rebuild except through draft choices. The days of free spending are gone. You can sign all free agents you want but at the end of the day a team needs to have a good core of young players before they can compete for the Cup.
Like many others you're so entrenched in blaming ownership/management for the team's failure but I don't see any point in talking about rebuilding this team if you don't even what to give the new management a chance to work.
All these beautiful talks about "loyoty" and "buidling winning attitude" are so naive. You have to come out of your little negative world if you're a real Leaf fan and start to think positively.
Only got this far in reading your post... since you have summarized what I said incorrectly. If the leafs had a few game left, were tied for last place, they were playing the last place team and the winner would get the #1 draft choice, there would be a valid reason to discuss their chances.smuddan said:
INSANE... The leafs have 18 games left in the season, and they are 7 points out of the playoff spot. It is insane that we still have a shot at the playoffs with one month left in the season, and people are talking about draft order!!!
MISSING THE POINT!! The leafs are 10 points up on LA, but just 2 point out of 2nd last place. So they will have a 25%? 20% chance of getting the 1st overall pick.. THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES... So they could get # 1 or
end up with #8? Stamkos is a very good player... but he is not Crosby, Malkin or Olvechkin...
A general rule in business is that when workers (players) lose fate in management, performance suffers. The Leafs lost confidence in JFJ.. perhaps even with Maurice.. But they fired JFJ, and now they need strong leadership. Not a leader that will tell them, "pack it in guys, lets wait until next year."
Again.. if you are going to cut the whole team next year.. then by all means lets send them all down to the Marlies... and call up the Marlies team.. we just might find a few NHL caliber players for next year.
I agree. And if I were the interim GM of Leafs as Fletcher, I would give these 5 the no-trade clause as well. This would make the GM job redundant for the next few years and kill any speculation of major trade thoughts so Sundin and the boys can start enjoying their games without distraction.21pro said:
Joking aside, this list of keepers just shows how thin the Leafs roster is particularly in the forward positions.
