You can do it the European way...

[MrLuvr]

Europe Gets Iran to Extend Freeze in Nuclear Work
By ELAINE SCIOLINO
Published: May 26, 2005

GENEVA, May 25 - The foreign ministers of Britain, France and Germany persuaded Iran on Wednesday to continue its freeze on nuclear activities, averting a diplomatic crisis that could have led to punitive international measures against Iran.

In exchange, the Europeans offered to present Iran with detailed, step-by-step proposals by early August at the latest on how to move toward consensus on the shape of Iran's nuclear program. Last November in Paris, Iran agreed to suspend all of its uranium enrichment and reprocessing activities while it negotiated the economic, nuclear, political and security benefits it would receive.

Or the American way....

Seven die in new Baghdad attacks

Three people have been killed in a car bomb attack on a police patrol in the Iraqi capital Baghdad.

At least two others were injured in the blast which occurred as people were travelling to work.

A university lecturer and three passengers in his car were also killed in a drive-by shooting in the capital's southern Aalam district.

Anti-US insurgents mount daily attacks on US and government targets, killing about 600 people in the last month.

In Qadissiya, in southern Baghdad, police said a member of the Shia Muslim Dawa party was found dead with his throat slit.

In a separate incident a US military convoy was attacked in central Baghdad. One vehicle caught fire but details of casualties are not known.

 

[langeweile]

Or we can do it the MONEY way

http://ap.washingtontimes.com/dynamic/stories/I/IRAN_NUCLEAR?SITE=DCTMS&SECTION=HOME

BAH..this had nothing to do with it. It was all due to the great negotiation skills of the Euro's ...right.
If you want to find the solution to a problem or you are looking for it's source..FOLLOW THE MONEY



The rest is just...........EVIAN.

 

[MrLuvr]

http://ap.washingtontimes.com/dynamic/stories/I/IRAN_NUCLEAR?SITE=DCTMS&SECTION=HOME

BAH..this had nothing to do with it. It was all due to the great negotiation skills of the Euro's ...right.
If you want to find the solution to a problem or you are looking for it's source..FOLLOW THE MONEY



The rest is just...........EVIAN.

Money? If there is anybody who knows about money, it is Bush and the Republicans.

Sounds like Americans could have done the same thing. Sour grapes.

 

[langeweile]

Money? If there is anybody who knows about money, it is Bush and the Republicans.

Sounds like Americans could have done the same thing. Sour grapes.

Read the article, this was made possible becuase the US gave up it's opposition for them to join.


Sorry, but money messing with politics is not a bush thing...unless he is somehow responsible for adscam or congressional pork barrel spending.

Your unfounded hatred is clouding your judgement.

 

[langeweile]

What's the color of money....I think it's green...

Money? If there is anybody who knows about money, it is Bush and the Republicans.

Sounds like Americans could have done the same thing. Sour grapes.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7985453/

 

[MrLuvr]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7985453/

$50 Million? Hehehehe.. what a joke.

Anyway, considering that the Europeans shanmed the Americans by negotiating a peaceful solution with Iran, what choice did American have but to drop their WTO opposition?

Europeans were able to get a resolution for Iran, while Powell went around telling lies to the UN to convince the world to go to war with Iraq... tens of thousands of dead Iraqis and thousands of dead Americans later, the Americans are still struggling to secure the country.. idiots..

 

[langeweile]

$50 Million? Hehehehe.. what a joke.

You know after my last message I knew I would get this response. Thanks for not dissapointing me.

You know, as pig headed as I am, sometimes even I can and will recognize if the other side has done something right.

Principles should always come before personalities.

 

[MrLuvr]

You know after my last message I knew I would get this response. Thanks for not dissapointing me.

You know, as pig headed as I am, sometimes even I can and will recognize if the other side has done something right.

Principles should always come before personalities.

Do you have Attention Deficit Disorder or something? Or maybe you just don't have the ability to debate a point without going off on something unrelated. What does giving $50 million to Palestinians have anything to do with my post on Iran vs Iraq? Besides, the piddly little $50 million is nothing compared to the billions being spent by the US everyday on their occupation of Iraq and the billions they give to Israel.

 

[Vietor]

Mr. Lubr,
To construe your comments in this thread as constituting "debate" is ludicrous. You do not state with any clarity the proposition that you are offering. You make allegations that are not factual. You insult without provocation. You fail.

 

[WoodPeckr]

ludicrous???? ....hardly

MrLuvr made some excellent points if you bothered to read his first post.

"You can do it the European way...
Europe Gets Iran to Extend Freeze in Nuclear Work
By ELAINE SCIOLINO
Published: May 26, 2005

GENEVA, May 25 - The foreign ministers of Britain, France and Germany persuaded Iran on Wednesday to continue its freeze on nuclear activities, averting a diplomatic crisis that could have led to punitive international measures against Iran.

In exchange, the Europeans offered to present Iran with detailed, step-by-step proposals by early August at the latest on how to move toward consensus on the shape of Iran's nuclear program. Last November in Paris, Iran agreed to suspend all of its uranium enrichment and reprocessing activities while it negotiated the economic, nuclear, political and security benefits it would receive.

Or the American way....

Seven die in new Baghdad attacks

Three people have been killed in a car bomb attack on a police patrol in the Iraqi capital Baghdad.

At least two others were injured in the blast which occurred as people were travelling to work.

A university lecturer and three passengers in his car were also killed in a drive-by shooting in the capital's southern Aalam district.

Anti-US insurgents mount daily attacks on US and government targets, killing about 600 people in the last month.

In Qadissiya, in southern Baghdad, police said a member of the Shia Muslim Dawa party was found dead with his throat slit.

In a separate incident a US military convoy was attacked in central Baghdad. One vehicle caught fire but details of casualties are not known."

Then MrLuvr points out for contrast the results of the,
Euro Peaceful resolution
as opposed to the Bush/Cheney unfinished War resolution namely,

"Europeans were able to get a resolution for Iran, while Powell went around telling lies to the UN to convince the world to go to war with Iraq... tens of thousands of dead Iraqis and thousands of dead Americans later, the Americans are still struggling to secure the country.. idiots.."

When cornered lange wanders off topic, which happens quite frequently in his case.....

The only thing that failed was your failure to realize GWB myopic policies will only bring more death & destruction and in the end prove to be a fertile breeding ground for generating even more ME terrorists on Jihad against the West.

 

[langeweile]

When cornered lange wanders off topic, which happens quite frequently in his case.....

You actually have enough balls to show up without your sidekick TO....WOW I am impresssed.
My guess is, your siamese twin will show up soon...

With the insults out of the way, please let me clarify.

Mr. L had given the sole credit for this deal to the Euro's.I agree that they certainly had some play in it, no question about that.

Unfortunately he failed to see that there was a prelude to the story, that happened back in March. Where the American goverment had retreated from their previuosly held postiton of not allowing Iran in to the WTO.
Suddenly there is an agreement.

My opinion is, that those two events are connected. The entrance of Iran in to the WTO, will provide a much needed boost for their economy. Plus it will give them more credibility on the world stage.
I believe the whole nuclear issue was used by them to pressure the USA to allow Iran in to the WTO. They got what they wanted.

Further than Iwas trying to illustrate how nations in the past ahve used one issue or the other as a bargaining chip, to collect some money from the US or from the Euro's.

Maybe the Abbas issue wasn't a real clear one. Clinton paying of North Korea would have been a much better one.

Like North Korea I don't believe for a moment that Iran will stop their nuclear ambitions.


Money can and will buy peace...

 

[WoodPeckr]

....Money can and will buy peace...

Yep we see the fruits born of that thinking being played out presently in Iraq & Afghanistan. Israel has thought the same for how many years now???.... to the same effect.

Yeah, Money can and will buy peace and the lives lost are, well just expendable 'collateral damage'..........

 

[Shades]

Politics of Expedience

It is nice that the Europeans are talking to the Iranians...and it is nice that the Europeans have announced their agreement.
But....does anybody believe for a minute that what the Iranians say and what they do are the same thing?
Unfortunately, I for one, will not be surprised to read one day that the Iranians have set off a "test" device. I don't know what the answer is....but I am pretty certain that it is not taking political regimes like Iran or North Korea, or Sudan, or Zimbabwe etc. at their word.
The stakes could be catastrophically high....do we want the last words heard to be "....but you promised!" A political theme and variation on "...of course I will still love you in the morning!"

 

[Vietor]

And the 100's of 1000's of Iraqi's killed under Saddam's reign of terror are to be ignored as the inconsequential deaths of people in foreign lands?? Do not respond by referencing all of the other people of foreign lands that have been wantonly killed without US intervention; that is a non sequitur. Old Europe has (excepting Great Britain) opted to sit on its hands, unless their own collective asses were threatened. Even then, as demonstrated in Spain's response to its own 911, they choose to cower to terrorists. "Europe's Way."

Incidentally, Mr. Peckrhead, as I have reminded you in the past, simply copying quotes from external sources does not, in and of itself, constitute argument, let alone debate.

 

[Truncador]

Even then, as demonstrated in Spain's response to its own 911, they choose to cower to terrorists.

Off topic: Yeah, what the hell were they thinking when they capitulated ? If al-Qaida can dictate the State's foreign policy, it is the de facto sovereign; the Spaniards might just as well cut out the middleman and, instead of paying taxes to the national government, directly pay to al-Qaida the traditional Quranic head-tax on Christians in exchange for protection.

 

[WoodPeckr]

Every country wants to join the ever expanding "Nuclear Club."

Funny how times have changed from when Clinton was blistered and accused of being 'Policeman of the World' ....and now we have some of those very same Clinton critics suggesting the revival of this type thinking with the US as the world's chief Hegemon playing the role of World Polizei.

 

[allaboutben]

Putting aside your biases momentarily, due to the nature of Iran's government, policies, etc. any commitment they agree to is not to be trusted.

I give the Europeans an A for effort though.

 

[langeweile]

Putting aside your biases momentarily, due to the nature of Iran's government, policies, etc. any commitment they agree to is not to be trusted.

I give the Europeans an A for effort though.

Agreed.

 

[WoodPeckr]

And the 100's of 1000's of Iraqi's killed under Saddam's reign of terror are to be ignored as the inconsequential deaths of people in foreign lands?? Do not respond by referencing all of the other people of foreign lands that have been wantonly killed without US intervention; that is a non sequitur.

Mr. Vieturd now that above statement is laughable!

Sticking to just 'the 100's of 1000's of Iraqi's killed under Saddam's reign of terror' as you requested, don't forget to include, all those killed by Saddam while he was an Ally to Reagan, GWB's daddy, Cheney, Rummy et al., during that nasty Iran/Iraq War when the US supplied all sorts of aid, material and military intell to their buddy & pal Saddam back then, i.e., like that gas the US gave Saddam that ending up being used on the Kurds!
Also don't forget all those Saddam butchered after Oil War I, when Dubya's daddy encouraged those Iraqis to overthow Saddam and then just sat on his ass when Saddam responded by ruthlessly putting down that Iraqi revolt, that Dad of Dubya had encouraged in the first place!

 

[cyrus]

......
Unfortunately he failed to see that there was a prelude to the story, that happened back in March. Where the American goverment had retreated from their previuosly held postiton of not allowing Iran in to the WTO.
Suddenly there is an agreement.

My opinion is, that those two events are connected. The entrance of Iran in to the WTO, will provide a much needed boost for their economy. Plus it will give them more credibility on the world stage.
I believe the whole nuclear issue was used by them to pressure the USA to allow Iran in to the WTO. They got what they wanted.
.......

Hardly, USA under pressure has only retracted its opposition to IRAN joining WTO, it means nothing to IRAN as they could, and no they will continue to drag this for ever. . . well another 10+ years!
Remember Russia is still trying to get in to WTO too after many years has passed!