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fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
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http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...damage-left-behind-by-evicted-ontario-tenants

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His opinion has changed after he said the family proceeded to cause thousands of dollars in damage to the house, including keeping birds and livestock inside where the animals slept, ate and defecated all over the place.

It took Andrew more than six months and a ruling from the Landlord and Tenant Board to finally evict the family.

When the family moved out a couple of months ago, Andrew said he was left with a house full of garbage, rotting food and animal and human waste.
...
 

spaman

Member
Nov 14, 2011
823
13
18
I dealt with this very same problem in Ontario. Incredible that owning property can have this type of exposure
 

italianguy74

New member
Apr 3, 2011
1,801
1
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GTA
It wouldn't hurt to pay the new tenants a visit early on after a couple months to make sure they are responsible people. How much is an interview going to reveal about the tenants? That they can behave themselves during an interview?
 

captnkirk

New member
Oct 31, 2016
52
2
0
We rent and have always respected the owners' properties. When we left their properties were always in better condition than when we arrived. We treated them all like they were our homes.
One landlord in our condo has a monthly inspection built into the lease and she insists on picking up the rent in person each month. She sees it as time well spent to protect her investment.
 

Mr. Piggy

Banned
Jul 4, 2007
3,033
1
0
Oshawa
He should sue these fucking animals and post their names in public and on social media.
 

Bobzilla

Buy-sexual
Oct 26, 2002
1,958
176
63
59
I used to collect rental accounts back in the day. This is actually alarmingly common. We had a client whose tenant blocked the basement windows with black cardboard & let his dog down there to crap. The entire basement was 6" deep in dog shit when the guy was evicted. It took months of leaving all the windows open & a professional cleaning crew to get the smell out. Had another client in downtown Toronto whose tenant put down a foot of soil in a bedroom & was growing crops. Another kept chickens, in a highrise apartment, no less.

Unfortunately, not many landlords have the knowledge or inclination required to document everything from move in to move out, ie. getting the tenant to sign move in & move out inspection reports, or even getting a complete application & doing basic checks.

Suing these people is all very well, but there's not really much point unless there's an avenue to eventually get your money back, ie garnishment to employer. If these people had a steady income, would they live like this? Plus, for this kind of damage, it would have to be Superior Court, ie lawyer pretty much required unless you have actual experience in drafting Superior Court documents. Want to pay a 5k retainer on top of your 30k in damages? Not all of the costs would be recoverable either.

There's a lot that goes into situations like this in order to generate a favourable result for a landlord.
 

Tiger

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2013
940
304
63
Good post, thanks!
I used to collect rental accounts back in the day. This is actually alarmingly common. We had a client whose tenant blocked the basement windows with black cardboard & let his dog down there to crap. The entire basement was 6" deep in dog shit when the guy was evicted. It took months of leaving all the windows open & a professional cleaning crew to get the smell out. Had another client in downtown Toronto whose tenant put down a foot of soil in a bedroom & was growing crops. Another kept chickens, in a highrise apartment, no less.

Unfortunately, not many landlords have the knowledge or inclination required to document everything from move in to move out, ie. getting the tenant to sign move in & move out inspection reports, or even getting a complete application & doing basic checks.

Suing these people is all very well, but there's not really much point unless there's an avenue to eventually get your money back, ie garnishment to employer. If these people had a steady income, would they live like this? Plus, for this kind of damage, it would have to be Superior Court, ie lawyer pretty much required unless you have actual experience in drafting Superior Court documents. Want to pay a 5k retainer on top of your 30k in damages? Not all of the costs would be recoverable either.

There's a lot that goes into situations like this in order to generate a favourable result for a landlord.
 

spaman

Member
Nov 14, 2011
823
13
18
I used to collect rental accounts back in the day. This is actually alarmingly common. We had a client whose tenant blocked the basement windows with black cardboard & let his dog down there to crap. The entire basement was 6" deep in dog shit when the guy was evicted. It took months of leaving all the windows open & a professional cleaning crew to get the smell out. Had another client in downtown Toronto whose tenant put down a foot of soil in a bedroom & was growing crops. Another kept chickens, in a highrise apartment, no less.

Unfortunately, not many landlords have the knowledge or inclination required to document everything from move in to move out, ie. getting the tenant to sign move in & move out inspection reports, or even getting a complete application & doing basic checks.

Suing these people is all very well, but there's not really much point unless there's an avenue to eventually get your money back, ie garnishment to employer. If these people had a steady income, would they live like this? Plus, for this kind of damage, it would have to be Superior Court, ie lawyer pretty much required unless you have actual experience in drafting Superior Court documents. Want to pay a 5k retainer on top of your 30k in damages? Not all of the costs would be recoverable either.

There's a lot that goes into situations like this in order to generate a favourable result for a landlord.
SO what! you get judgement and then what. these people have nothing, in most cases that's why they are renting, they have no other place where equity exists. So you get judgement from a court and that ends up going now where. This is the risk you take, no avoiding it
 

Conil

Well-known member
Apr 12, 2013
3,628
627
113
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...damage-left-behind-by-evicted-ontario-tenants

...
His opinion has changed after he said the family proceeded to cause thousands of dollars in damage to the house, including keeping birds and livestock inside where the animals slept, ate and defecated all over the place.

It took Andrew more than six months and a ruling from the Landlord and Tenant Board to finally evict the family.

When the family moved out a couple of months ago, Andrew said he was left with a house full of garbage, rotting food and animal and human waste.
...
I heard in some cases it could take 9 months to evict them.
 

onceaday

New member
Sep 28, 2015
348
0
0
Please forgive me in advance if this comes across as unreasonably negative. Firstly, if you do not know what a Cap Rate is do not invest in R/E. Secondly, if you do not understand the Landlord/Tenant Act intimately do not invest in R/E. Thirdly, weigh all of the drama you will encounter renting to people who could never pull it together enough to own their own roof. It is all bad news. Finally. ask yourself if you would be better off in a REIT (preferably in a tax free/TFSA account) such as Northview or CapReit where they take care of all the headaches and give you a very solid dividend return, perhaps better than in real property and no TAXES. I have found buying and holding/selling land to be much more profitable than my earlier and regrettable foray into the housing rental segment.
 
Jun 21, 2016
179
0
0
I dealt with this very same problem in Ontario. Incredible that owning property can have this type of exposure
How can you be "surprised"? How long have you lived in Ontario? We are a Marxist wannabe province. The scum bag has rule here.
 
Nov 30, 2007
3,130
1,074
113
Maybe the landlord should put these disturbing situations in their clause prior to siging the contract.
 

GPIDEAL

Prolific User
Jun 27, 2010
23,360
11
38
Please forgive me in advance if this comes across as unreasonably negative. Firstly, if you do not know what a Cap Rate is do not invest in R/E. Secondly, if you do not understand the Landlord/Tenant Act intimately do not invest in R/E. Thirdly, weigh all of the drama you will encounter renting to people who could never pull it together enough to own their own roof. It is all bad news. Finally. ask yourself if you would be better off in a REIT (preferably in a tax free/TFSA account) such as Northview or CapReit where they take care of all the headaches and give you a very solid dividend return, perhaps better than in real property and no TAXES. I have found buying and holding/selling land to be much more profitable than my earlier and regrettable foray into the housing rental segment.
It does require homework and has pitfalls, but there are thousands of landlords who are renting condos or houses and making money (which might only be covering costs and then some, but then from capital appreciation).
 

GPIDEAL

Prolific User
Jun 27, 2010
23,360
11
38
Maybe the landlord should put these disturbing situations in their clause prior to siging the contract.
You definitely have to have a lease put in place that is drafted by a lawyer familiar with residential tenancies.
 

SkyRider

Banned
Mar 31, 2009
17,572
2
0
but there are thousands of landlords who are renting condos or houses and making money
Some (many, most , almost all, all?) of the big houses on Palmerston are illegal rooming houses. The original owners have passed on and their kids are now the owner(s).
 

dbiz2

Member
Dec 5, 2015
347
22
18
USA
Please forgive me in advance if this comes across as unreasonably negative. Firstly, if you do not know what a Cap Rate is do not invest in R/E. Secondly, if you do not understand the Landlord/Tenant Act intimately do not invest in R/E. Thirdly, weigh all of the drama you will encounter renting to people who could never pull it together enough to own their own roof. It is all bad news. ... I have found buying and holding/selling land to be much more profitable than my earlier and regrettable foray into the housing rental segment.
Well thank you from a renter. Listen, its a two-way street. Some people DON'T want the hassle of owning a home. Yes, yes, I know, I'm throwing away my potential equity in a home by renting. I DON'T CARE! So far, the benefit/cost analysis for me is still a positive. Additionally, there are some SHITTY LL!! I'm fairly knowledgeable regarding the LL/tenant laws in my state, building/zoning codes and the like. You'd be surprised at how landlords try to pull something over on a tenant. For example, a few years back I looked at three apartments. I asked each LL for a copy of the lease for review to take home to read so I thoroughly understood the terms and conditions. Two of the three said yes. The third said I could read it right there and now. I quickly said thanks but no thanks.

Another time, in my recent rental, the previous LL (I had a hunch she was getting ready to flip it--she had all the apartments filled, but the last 3 tenants were totally sketchy). She wanted me to move out of my apartment to a smaller one across the hall, but wanted to charge me the same rent as my larger apartment. I told her what she previously had charged for the smaller apartments, as recent as the previous week. I also told her it was her decision to remodel, and that the apartment in its current state was up to code (it had recently been inspected and gotten the COO renewed). She stated she was going to have the apartment re-wired, and do a few other changes. She said I would only be in the other apartment for 4-6 weeks. Knowing her past refurbishing efforts, I knew this was untrue. I also knew that what she was doing was going to require that the apartment be "gutted out."

I told her I would be present when the contractors came by to give the estimates and would ask several questions. After the contractor gave his estimate, I said "sounds like the apartment will have to be gutted to do the work that's required--and it'll take longer than 4 weeks, assuming you are working other jobs beside this one." He paused for a bit, but said "yes." In the end, I had her draw up a separate agreement stipulating that : 1) I would get the lower rent as previously list the prior week for similar sized apartments; 2) that some of my belongs would stay in the storage area away from the work area; 3) that I would be moving back into the refurbished apartment at the same rental rate as already had (she basically wanted to move me into the smaller place and bump up the rent $300 in the remodeled apartment for a new tenant--but I knew that before she knew it); 4) and that there was a definitive date that I would move back into my apartment and if the date was not met, be compensated for the days the remodeling work went over.

As I already knew this LL to be a liar and a cheat (I knew she was violating several state/city building codes, not major perse, but did impact the quality of life for me as a resident and the building in general) I was sure she would not hold the agreement--and I was right. First, she tried to get me to stay where I was twice. I told her no, stated she had signed an agreement to that affect, and that I was willing to go to court over it. That issue was dropped. But then the 4-6 week remodel dragged on to 3-4 months and definitely after the agreed to date. Since I had a lease, her failure to adhere to the supplemental agreement could be construed as a constructive eviction, but I held firm. In the end, I got back into my newly remodeled place (I stated I would not surrender my keys to the apartment undergoing remodeling because of my belongings still inside the apartment so I had an idea how the job was going) but even then she tried to screw me. There were several red inspections stickers surrounding the electrical work (never reoccupy ANY apartment where red stickers are present for an inspection, means something definitely wrong). She tried to get me back in after it failed inspection--twice. I told her the apartment hadn't past the electrical inspection. Her reply was "oh that's okay, the building inspector said it was okay." I told her I wasn't stupid. Until a green sticker is placed on the outside door to the apartment, it wasn't habitable. She gave me a dirty look, but said nothing when I said I would be happy to call the inspector for verification (but I had already called, spoken to him, and gotten confirmation the apartment didn't past inspection...I also took time dated photos of the red inspection ticket).

In the end, I got into my newly remodeled apartment 2 weeks later. It was GREAT! I also am paying the same rent--even better. Eventually, 8 months later she sold the building. The new LL is great, no problems, and has "laid down the law" with a few tenants, forcing them to move out (it wasn't a bad place before, but there were 2-3 tenants that carried on all night. I called the cops on all of them and everyone got issued a $200 ticket for disturbing the peace--they moved out after the new LL came on board).

The moral of the story is LL-tenant relationships work both ways. Neither party want people that cause problems. The LL wants (and deserves) tenants that pay rent on time, and maintain the rental property. The tenant wants a LL that addresses maintenance issues and problems with other tenants that disturb the right of every renter to "quiet enjoyment" of their abode. If everybody is on the same page, then everybody wins.
 

Smallcock

Active member
Jun 5, 2009
13,703
21
38
He should sue these fucking animals and post their names in public and on social media.
He would just lose money doing this. The pigs don't have money to give. They had a ton of unpaid bills for utilities, phone, etc.

A credit check likely would have exposed their poor history. People don't become pigs like this overnight. It's what they've always been so there is usually a track record to show it.
 

dbiz2

Member
Dec 5, 2015
347
22
18
USA
A credit check likely would have exposed their poor history. People don't become pigs like this overnight. It's what they've always been so there is usually a track record to show it.
Five questions every LL should ask before leasing to tenant: 1) Why are you moving? 2) When do you plan on moving in? 3) What is your monthly income? 4) Can I ask for references from your former LLs and employer (be sure to speak to a former LL and not just their current LL. If the tenant is a problem for the current LL, they'll say anything to get rid of the tenant), and 5) Will you submit a rental application and consent to a credit and background check?
 
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