Would you live/retire in another country as an ex-pat?

lenny2

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2012
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Fine. It's a motherfucking paradise with rational, and sane rules. I get it. You like oppressive regimes with a barbaric legal system, intense censorship, and hypocrisy that would make the most cavalier observer's gorge rise. As long as the authorities turn a blind eye to your hobbying, s'all good. Good for you.
This is your negative view. Others see Singapore much more positively.

If you want to look for dirt, it's there in every country. So all you are left with is choices between various types of poison. Evidently you prefer those with less safety, more crime, rapes, murders, HIV, etc.

SG sees millions of visitors a year. How many of them considered not going there because of things such as you mention. Likely a very small percentage.

I'm not gay so am in no danger of being arrested for that in SG. How many have ever been, if any? Even if i thought that was a bad law, why would a person deny themselves the happiness they know they would experience by going there? It would be stupid to make oneself unhappy by boycotting the place, whereas such an action will have no effect on changing the way things are.

The OPs criterion for choosing a place has little if anything to do with your hangups about SG. For example he is looking for a place that "has a large expat community, beautiful women, diverse culture, and isn't mired in poverty". That fits Singapore perfectly.

The OP also mentioned "1) safety, 2) cleanliness, 3) access to women, 4) not a stifling climate." Apart from item four, possibly, that also describes SG.

Notice that he made no mention of laws re gays, toilets, spitting, etc, or moralism or politics, but did express an interest in an improved quality of life.

He mentions women a number of times. This is, after all, a site about paying for sex with women, so obviously women are of huge interest to many of us.

What is not of so much interest to many of us is the millions of religious & moral ethical opinions in the world, all of which disagree with one another. Yours is just one of those.

As to what you think i like, i suppose you have no idea. I like spending time in SG, Bangkok and Canada. Vietnam not so much. Never made it to China & wasn't interested.
 

nobody123

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Feb 1, 2012
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I'm not gay so am in no danger of being arrested for that in SG. How many have ever been, if any? Even if i thought that was a bad law, why would a person deny themselves the happiness they know they would experience by going there? It would be stupid to make oneself unhappy by boycotting the place, whereas such an action will have no effect on changing the way things are.
I would rather not support a regime that imprisons gays, has the death penalty for pot possession etc etc etc with my presence and my money. Boycotting the place in no way makes me unhappy, but living there and trying to convince myself that there is nothing wrong very much would.
 

danibbler

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Feb 2, 2002
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I would rather not support a regime that imprisons gays, has the death penalty for pot possession etc etc etc with my presence and my money. Boycotting the place in no way makes me unhappy, but living there and trying to convince myself that there is nothing wrong very much would.
I know Singapore quite well and you have laughably grossly exaggerated what it's like to live there. The gov't does not actively imprison homosexuals (seems the law applies mainly to men) but it does have the most draconian drug laws around. I like the latter..I have yet to see any drug addicts on any of my numerous trips through SG.

Frankly, if you don't do anything outrageous there...you're good to go. Would I retire there? Not sure...the healthcare is topnotch but expensive. Transport is excellent. Food is so-so but the hotel buffets are quite nice. Crime is almost non-existent.
 

danibbler

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There is a reason why "snow birds" exist. They maintain residence in Canada just long enough to keep their free Canadian health care.
Don't you have to pay for it out of pocket first and then claim it back from the province?

And, yeah, once you hit a certain age the private health care plans cost a bomb! And quality of care? You better be willing and able to pony up for it if you move overseas.
 

lenny2

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Jan 18, 2012
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Don't you have to pay for it out of pocket first and then claim it back from the province?

And, yeah, once you hit a certain age the private health care plans cost a bomb! And quality of care? You better be willing and able to pony up for it if you move overseas.
Snowbirds are advised to purchase travel insurance while outside of Canada. US medical care is very dear & one's provincial Canadian coverage will not pay the costs of many medical procedures or services.

Canadian medical coverage to Canadians in Canada is not free for most of us, i think. In BC i paid roughly $800 last year. Travel insurance was an extra cost of about the same with TIC.

For expat insurance, if i had chosen to permanently live in Asia, it would have been something like 1700 per annum. Maybe a few hundred more. Per person in later 50's.

Not losing my BC coverage, after a less than 2 year trip outside the country, was one factor in motivating my return.
 

lenny2

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Jan 18, 2012
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I would rather not support a regime that imprisons gays....
I haven't read of a single case where Singapore imprisoned a gay person in the last 20 years.


"Singapore has a lingering PR problem from its years of threatening gay citizens with the
rotten rattan of its buggery-obsessed former colonial masters. Let’s lay that nonsense to rest:
these days you won't be arrested for sharing a bed with your lover or chewing gum with that
gorgeous salesgirl you just chatted up at Starbucks.

"What will you get in place of homophobia and newspaper exposes? Southeast Asia's best cuisines collected together in one place, safe and clean multi-ethnic neighborhoods ripe for exploring, shopping malls up the wazoo, cheap world-class hotels, sport-spa-and-health legal highs, and rollicking nightlife."

".... Global access to information and the rapid economic advancement of this small island
nation have created a mobile and progressive generation of educated, fit, English-speaking
women of diverse cultural backgrounds. The art of conversation is alive and well here and you
will make fast friends who won't be afraid to challenge your thinking with their own opinions.
Green, modern and organized, The Lion City is also a haven for well-to-do expats.

"Officials stopped harassing gay venues at the end of the last century. The government has
been officially hiring open homosexuals into the civil service for years now and gay and
lesbian talents are sought after in the work force as the country strives to maintain its
Asian "tiger" status through increased diversity. This new pragmatism seems set to continue.

"The population of Singapore is over 4.5 million people, which means that more than 180,000
Utopians live on this island along with an even larger number of self-professed metrosexual
bi gals who also participate in the local lesbian scene."

http://www.utopia-asia.com/womsing.htm

I assume those last figures exclude all the ladyboys i've seen in Geylang plus those reported
at Orchard Towers, etc, which is popularly known as the "Four Floors of Whores".

http://sgwiki.com/wiki/Singapore_lesbian_history
http://sgwiki.com/wiki/Section_377A_of_the_Singapore_Penal_Code
http://sgwiki.com/wiki/Singapore_gay_history

"Gay discos started to experience occasional police raids, the most well-known of which
occurred at Rascals disco in the basement of the Pan Pacific Hotel on 30 May 1993, where
policemen shouted at patrons and were inappropriately rude. A gay lawyer, Wilfred Ong, who was
present, later enlisted the support of 21 other gay professionals in writing a letter of
complaint to the Chief of Police[16]. To everyone's surprise, they received an apology. This
would be the last documented case of police harassment at gay discos for many years to come.
This episode has been dubbed "Singapore's Stonewall"....

"On 11 December 1998, Senior Minister Lee Kuan Yew responded to a gay man's question about
the place of homosexuals in Singapore, live on CNN International by saying, '...what we are
doing as a government is to leave people to live their own lives so long as they don't impinge
on other people. I mean, we don't harass anybody'. These momentous words would set the tenor
for official policy on homosexuality for many years to come and may be regarded as the most
significant event, as far as gay rights are concerned, of the decade, if not of the century..."

http://sgwiki.com/wiki/Singapore_gay_history#The_2010s

"On 9 March 2010, Tan and another man were arrested under Section 377A, for engaging in oral
sex in a cubicle in a public shopping mall toilet. Each was later charged for committing an
act of gross indecency with another male person under Section 377A.

"Tan then applied to court for a declaration that Section 377A was unconstitutional....

"The Court of Appeal has now found that Tan was entitled to continue with his constitutional
challenge to Section 377A."

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/201...es-the-constitutions-equal-protection-clause/

No jail time mentioned:

"....both Tan and his co-accused had already pleaded guilty to the obsenity charges, and each
was sentenced to a $3000 fine....

"a man who was robbed after having sex with another man reported the theft to the police and
received a warning under s 377A"

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/201...es-the-constitutions-equal-protection-clause/

In an apparent reneging of Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong's word and the government's promise
never to apply Section 377A again, the police employed a decoy to entrap an Indian Malaysian
man allegedly cruising for gay sex around the disused cemetary at Jalan Kubor in 2010. This
episode of the police entrapment of gay men occurred after almost a decade of cessation of the
operations.

Section 377A was again used to charge two men having for having oral sex in a toilet cubicle
at Mustafa Centre. The gay community was indignant because the non-gay discriminatory Section
294(a), which criminalises "any obscene act in any public place" irrespective of gender (see
below) could have easily been used instead....

Tan was originally charged under Section 377A but to avoid the inconvenience of a
constitutional challenge which would set a precedent and open the floodgates to other
constitutional challenges, the Attorney-General’s Chambers (AGC) withdrew the 377A charges in
mid-October and substituted charges under Section 294(a) instead.

Section 294(a) of the Penal Code states:

"Whoever, to the annoyance of others does any obscene act in any public place...shall be
punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 3 months, or with fine, or with both....

On Tuesday, 21 August 2012, after nearly a year of deliberation, Singapore’s Court of Appeal, in a 106-page judgement, overturned High Court judge Lai Siu Chiu’s decision on 15 March 2011 when she ruled that there was no "real controversy" which required the court’s attention....

They said Tan would be allowed to vindicate his rights before the courts based on a finding that there was an arguable violation of his constitutional rights.

http://sgwiki.com/wiki/Section_377A_of_the_Singapore_Penal_Code#Consequences_of_retention

--------------------------


"79 countries where homosexuality is illegal":

http://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/

"AIDS Rate 50 Times Higher in Homosexual Men: Center for Disease Control"

http://www.topix.com/forum/state/ms/T8IGHKIB0EB8LF3DM#!
http://www.returnofkings.com/3882/the-truth-about-aids#!
http://www.science20.com/news_accou...and_heterosexuals_ignores_risky_behavior_data
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100108114249AAMISv4
 

lenny2

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2012
3,574
729
113
I would rather not support a regime that imprisons gays, has the death penalty for pot possession etc etc etc with my presence and my money. Boycotting the place in no way makes me unhappy, but living there and trying to convince myself that there is nothing wrong very much would.
I wonder how long your list of boycotted countries is. Where do you live & travel, if anywhere, on earth?

Do you advocate that people with jobs that require they travel to your boycotted countries refuse to go and get fired?

According to sources i've read the following are the penalties for possession & trafficking of marijuana in certain first world destinations. Unless stated otherwise, they are maximums.

usa............3 years, death
singapore...10 years, death
hong kong..7 years, life imprisonment
canada.......1 year, life imprisonment
belgium......5 years
denmark.....6 years
france.......10 years
finland.......2 years, btn 2-10 years
greece...... btn 2-5 years, 8 yrs
ireland.......traf up to 7 yrs
italy...........traf up to 7 yrs
portugal.....6 mos, 12 yrs
spain.........traf 3-6 yrs
sweeden....up to 6 mos or 3 or 10 years depending on severity
germany....4 years

Singapore government position & attitude towards cannabis:

http://www.cnb.gov.sg/drugs/bannedsubstance/cannabis.aspx

"Possession of cannabis is illegal in most countries and has been since the beginning of widespread cannabis prohibition in the late 1930s.[1]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis

"79 countries where homosexuality is illegal":

http://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/

"ATLANTA, Georgia, Officials with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) announced the CDC's estimate Monday that in the United States AIDS is fifty times more prevalent among men who have sex with men ('MSM') than the rest of the population."

http://www.topix.com/forum/state/ms/T8IGHKIB0EB8LF3DM#!
 

nobody123

serial onanist
Feb 1, 2012
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All right. Fuck it. I give up. This threadjack is getting absurdly long, and I'm not going to quibble and nitpick over the precise nature of laws and their enforcement in Singapore. Signapore's government and legal system are too draconian for my comfort, not so for some of y'all. And yeah, most every country has a shitty law or two or 100, I just find Singapore to have one (or two or 100) too many. Great. Let's move on.

I know Singapore quite well and you have laughably grossly exaggerated what it's like to live there.... Food is so-so but the hotel buffets are quite nice.
This I couldn't leave be though. Seriously dude? The ONE thing I found Singapore was absolutely brilliant at was food. Fucking amazing stuff, and just about every ethnicity represented in the culinary arts. Can't think of anywhere on earth I've been with better food and a wider range available. I'm flummoxed that you'd find the one thing good about the place to be the one deficiency. Weird.
 

danibbler

Active member
Feb 2, 2002
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This I couldn't leave be though. Seriously dude? The ONE thing I found Singapore was absolutely brilliant at was food. Fucking amazing stuff, and just about every ethnicity represented in the culinary arts. Can't think of anywhere on earth I've been with better food and a wider range available. I'm flummoxed that you'd find the one thing good about the place to be the one deficiency. Weird.
Either your tastebuds are way off or your culinary experience is very limited.

Virtually every Singaporean I know over the age of 35 says that the Asian food such as nasi lemak, bee hoon, etc is now basically garbage. You should hear them complaining about the won ton noodles where the won tons no longer have prawns.

I've eaten at some of the best Western hotel buffets in SG...think the best one was supposed to be "Meet"? Not very good. My hostess was aghast at how they did not keep the sushi trays on ice. The one with the best value so far was Furama River Front or some sort in the western part of the city near the Novotel and what the locals call the "glass hotel". They call it that because its surface is all glass and they can never keep up with who is the current owner. LOL.

Overall, I would say that the food is so-so. It's very pricey and you're not always getting the best deal.
 
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