Woke Math mandatory for grade 9 - Ontario

Combat Shock

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Aug 15, 2012
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Equality of outcome is utopian at best, the entire concept surrounding these views is the furthest thing from reality.
A complete demise of success and the destruction of meritocracy.
Not everyone will be as intelligent or successful in school and in life that's just nature.
 

Vera.Reis

Mediterranean Paramour
Jan 20, 2020
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Toronto
Equality of outcome is utopian at best, the entire concept surrounding these views is the furthest thing from reality.
A complete demise of success and the destruction of meritocracy.
Not everyone will be as intelligent or successful in school and in life that's just nature.
How does giving people more ways to learn prevent meritocracy? This is not about equality of outcome at all, the reach lol they are striving for equality of opportunity, the outcome will always vary.
 
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Roleplayer

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You do understand this post is on the fundamentals of math being taught at an elementary school level and high school level?

There is NOTHING "theoretical" at this point whatsoever
I'm not sure what you think the word theoretical means, but taken on its face, this statement shows a complete lack of understanding of what math is. Do you really think math at a high school level is not concerned with theory?

History

If you want to teach history teach history
Historical math? And how it enables systemic racism?
And how to position math within cultural contexts?
There's a reason that the history of math is offered at universities, sometimes in the math department, sometimes by other departments. For me, it was one of the most instructive courses I took. It exposed me to other ways of doing things while simultaneously giving me a deeper understanding of why things are done the way they are. It made me a better mathematician.

The study of practically any subject can be enhanced with at least some awareness of the history of that subject. Would you complain if a science teacher explained something about the context in which a scientific principle was developed?

If you want to discuss specific content or whether teachers have sufficient expertise in the history of math to teach it, that's another matter, but I don't see how it's reasonable to so easily dismiss the value of learning a little history on the subject.
 
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TeeJay

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Jun 20, 2011
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That its not as black and white as you think.
Its a process and there are lots of ways to get there, some work better for different people.
Nice dodge
The question to you was if you claim you are correct give a single concrete example

Otherwise its just noise on your part
 

TeeJay

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2011
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west gta
Isolating a single sentence and taking it out of context is half the problem with these forums :)
Not even

I quoted your ENTIRE post
Did not even edit out a punctuation mark much less a word

If your sentence fragment says something you did not intend it to then that is your fault not mine


Reposted in it's entirety below for those of you suffering from ADHD

Theoretical mathematicians discover new and disprove old theories all the time. Math is not as objective and concrete as you're making it out to be.
 

Roleplayer

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Jun 29, 2010
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Exactly, and that comment was from the evolution of the discussion. People cannot say math is black and white, because it isn't. It is to those who only understand basic mathematics, but innumeracy is so high even for the basics that we do need to consider teaching kids that it isn't as rigid as people make it out to be, then maybe they wouldn't be so scared of it.

I'll give the group a euro centric example since it will make them feel more comfortable, my dad's family immigrated from Brasil to Portugal, when my dad does long form division it is completely backwards from what I was taught and confused the hell out of me until he showed me how he does it. Knowing another way to do long form division only made me better at math because it forced me to think of numbers slightly differently.

I was ALWAYS naturally good at math, from grade 2 I was beating all my classmates in flash card games and those 60s drills. But come secondary school where I was being forced into a math box I started butting heads with my teacher since I wasn't following all their exact steps on paper as my brain did most of the work just by looking at the equation. My teachers consistently tried to dock me points even though my final answer was correct and my parents were in there consistently arguing with them that writing all the steps is semantics and what matters is that I learn the concepts and get the correct final answer.

Things like this is why students struggle, the concept of mathematics is a construct, your grade school math level might not have taught you this, but it is. Western society early on agreed on a set of mathematical rules that if ever disrupted would make math impossible - an easy example of this is BEDMAS, we HAVE to write equations to follow this, if we don't no one will get the right answer. BEDMAS is not a natural concept, it is a construct, and there are many more of them in math that we had to agree to to make math as we know it work.

So the irony is, those crying about losing critical thinking in this thread are those who lack it because they were unable to realize that math is not simply first principles, those first principles lay on a bed of assumptions that if ever disturbed would cause havoc in our generation just as it has in previous generations when mathematical "discoveries" came to light.
I'm going to (sort of) disagree with some aspects here. I'm drawing on some general experience , some of which may not apply to you specifically, so please forgive me if I appear to inaccurately attribute certain details to your particular experience.

While there are many different ways to do things in math, I also think it's entirely reasonable to require students to follow particular methods. There are a lot of reasons for this.

Linear systems presents a good example. As the curriculum exists, by grade 10 students are exposed to three methods for solving linear systems of two variables: graphing, substitution and elimination. Now, for the algebraic methods, a lot of students tend towards one or the other. Each method has situations in which it's more convenient, though you can actually solve any question you're likely to get at this level using either, so those students often try to only use their preference and balk at the requirement to use the other. But what if, in future study, you are exposed to nonlinear systems? There are times when elimination is the only practical approach and substitution is effectively useless, and there are times the reverse is true. So in practice you would need to have developed both methods. This kind of thing happens all the time in math. We learn different methods for doing things not only to give us options for the immediate task, but because those methods develop different ways of understanding and can be extended in different ways. Very often, students (and teachers for that matter) get caught in the trap of approaching math with only the short term in mind. I believe that's one of the primary reasons many students say "I was really good at math until grade X, and then I hit a wall."

BEDMAS is actually a really good example to delve into for discussing convention. Because it's absolutely true that it's a construct, and it could have been constructed differently. Indeed, taking brackets as a tool to communicate the desired order of operations, we wouldn't technically need any further convention at all, though this would make for some horribly unwieldy expressions. While BEDMAS is a construct, there are also very good reasons it's constructed the way it is. There is a natural progression from addition to multiplication to exponentiation, and operations are partnered with their inverses. In most cases with which we are concerned, it leads to the most efficient way to communicate expressions. And as you said, in practice a knowledge of order of operations is essential to function in algebra.

I absolutely believe a consideration in the assessment of a math student's work is the way they present that work. In higher level math, no one really cares if you got the right answer if you can't clearly communicate why it's the right answer. In most cases, using the established language of mathematics is going to be part of that.

(Aside: I anticipate someone reading this is thinking "who cares about higher level math. Most people never use that anyway. I just want my kids to get the right answer." I think it's valuable to address this. Firstly, a basic principle in education is that you generally teach a subject on the basis that students will progress further in that subject. Consider what the alternative would lead to. And much of the time the value of education doesn't actually come from the specific skills being taught, since it's impossible to anticipate the specific skills everyone is going to need. Rather, it is the development of metaskills that have value no matter what the future holds. Math is an excellent subject for many of those, including the development and communication of convincing logical arguments. A lot of students will get value out of this no matter what they do, just as many will need to follow industry conventions in communicating information in the same way a math student can be expected to use established mathematical language.)

More generally, this issue of the language of mathematics needs much greater attention than it gets. I knew several people who studied math in French immersion until grade 11, at which point they switched to studying math in English. They received no particular support for this transition and it was a real problem for them. Math is a highly technical subject with a great deal of terminology, and they didn't know what their teacher was saying half the time. This is a somewhat extreme example but it is part of a much larger problem. For immigrants, if they come from a place that uses very different conventions, going into a math class can be practically as jarring as going into an English class if they don't speak English. Even for students who always studied in Ontario, sometimes they hit a point they are expected to use conventions no one ever taught them. Frankly, a lot of the time this happens because teachers at the elementary level didn't know those conventions themselves! Which is one of those systemic issues I alluded to in my previous post: there are a lot of people teaching math who don't really know enough about it. That usually isn't their fault; it's the way the system works.
 
Last edited:

TeeJay

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2011
8,052
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west gta
You are against the concept of examples?
I am against examples that are woke nonsense and have nothing to do with the subject matter

As from the part you quoted: cultures, histories, present-day realities, ways of knowing, and contributions

It's math not a history lesson
I could care less who discovered what(and I think most people would be very hard pressed to show any contributions from certain societies anyways)
 

Vera.Reis

Mediterranean Paramour
Jan 20, 2020
823
911
113
Toronto
Not even

I quoted your ENTIRE post
Did not even edit out a punctuation mark much less a word

If your sentence fragment says something you did not intend it to then that is your fault not mine


Reposted in it's entirety below for those of you suffering from ADHD
You isolated it from what it was in response to, the person was talking about math as a whole, so in CONTEXT my statement makes sense.
 

Vera.Reis

Mediterranean Paramour
Jan 20, 2020
823
911
113
Toronto
I'm going to (sort of) disagree with some aspects here. I'm drawing on some general experience , some of which may not apply to you specifically, so please forgive me if I appear to inaccurately attribute certain details to your particular experience.

While there are many different ways to do things in math, I also think it's entirely reasonable to require students to follow particular methods. There are a lot of reasons for this.

Linear systems presents a good example. As the curriculum exists, by grade 10 students are exposed to three methods for solving linear systems of two variables: graphing, substitution and elimination. Now, for the algebraic methods, a lot of students tend towards one or the other. Each method has situations in which it's more convenient, though you can actually solve any question you're likely to get at this level using either, so those students often try to only use their preference and balk at the requirement to use the other. But what if, in future study, you are exposed to nonlinear systems? There are times when elimination is the only practical approach and substitution is effectively useless, and there are times the reverse is true. So in practice you would need to have developed both methods. This kind of thing happens all the time in math. We learn different methods for doing things not only to give us options for the immediate task, but because those methods develop different ways of understanding and can be extended in different ways. Very often, students (and teachers for that matter) get caught in the trap of approaching math with only the short term in mind. I believe that's one of the primary reasons many students say "I was really good at math until grade X, and then I hit a wall."

BEDMAS is actually a really good example to delve into for discussing convention. Because it's absolutely true that it's a construct, and it could have been constructed differently. Indeed, taking brackets as a tool to communicate the desired order of operations, we wouldn't technically need any further convention at all, though this would make for some horribly unwieldy expressions. While BEDMAS is a construct, there are also very good reasons it's constructed the way it is. There is a natural progression from addition to multiplication to exponentiation, and operations are partnered with their inverses. In most cases with which we are concerned, it leads to the most efficient way to communicate expressions. And as you said, in practice a knowledge of order of operations is essential to function in algebra.

I absolutely believe a consideration in the assessment of a math student's work is the way they present that work. In higher level math, no one really cares if you got the right answer if you can't clearly communicate why it's the right answer. In most cases, using the established language of mathematics is going to be part of that.

(Aside: I anticipate someone reading this is thinking "who cares about higher level math. Most people never use that anyway. I just want my kids to get the right answer." I think it's valuable to address this. Firstly, a basic principle in education is that you generally teach a subject on the basis that students will progress further in that subject. Consider what the alternative would lead to. And much of the time the value of education doesn't actually come from the specific skills being taught, since it's impossible to anticipate the specific skills everyone is going to need. Rather, it is the development of metaskills that have value no matter what the future holds. Math is an excellent subject for many of those, including the development and communication of convincing logical arguments. A lot of students will get value out of this no matter what they do, just as many will need to follow industry conventions in communicating information in the same way a math student can be expected to use established mathematical language.)

More generally, this issue of the language of mathematics needs much greater attention than it gets. I knew several people who studied math in French immersion until grade 11, at which point they switched to studying math in English. They received no particular support for this transition and it was a real problem for them. Math is a highly technical subject with a lot of terminology, and they didn't know what their teacher was saying half the time. This is a somewhat extreme example but it is part of a much larger problem. For immigrants, if they come from a place that uses very different conventions, going into a math class can be practically as jarring as going into an English class if they don't speak English. Even for students who always studied in Ontario, sometimes they hit a point that are expected to use conventions no one ever taught them. Frankly, a lot of the time this happens because teachers at the elementary level didn't know those conventions themselves! Which is one of those systemic issues I alluded to in my previous post: there are a lot of people teaching math who don't really know enough about it. That usually isn't their fault; it's the way the system works.
I think we agree, I was just pointing out that knowing multiple ways to do the same type of equation only strengthens your knowledge. I can use a quadratic formula for a linear equation where factoring would have been sufficient but it doesn't mean it was the most effective way to solve the problem.

My point was that knowing more ways to approach a problem isn't a disadvantage, it can only serve to deepen your understanding.

In high school they want you to show your work so they can verify you didn't cheat. In higher mathematics if you don't show the step where you expanded a single squared number no one is going to get lost, it was a tedious practice.

But I 100% feel you, my dad couldn't help me with grade 11 physics in English even though he was an engineer in Portugal. He had absolutely no idea what I was going on about, not because he didn't know how to calculate where a projectile would land but because he didn't understand the terminology in my textbook. Once I set up the equation he could help me through it but what I needed help with was the concepts not the math.
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
27,426
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Room 112
When I was in school, subjects like Calculus were optional. Did that change?
Calculus and Algebra & Geometry were OAC (Grade 13) level math courses when I was in high school. Since then they have gotten rid of grade 13 so I'm not exactly sure if they are taught in high school math anymore.
basketcase is simply muddying the conversation, likely intentionally, instead of focusing on the core issue of fundamental math being taught from a woke perspective.
 

Roleplayer

Active member
Jun 29, 2010
216
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I think we agree, I was just pointing out that knowing multiple ways to do the same type of equation only strengthens your knowledge. I can use a quadratic formula for a linear equation where factoring would have been sufficient but it doesn't mean it was the most effective way to solve the problem.

My point was that knowing more ways to approach a problem isn't a disadvantage, it can only serve to deepen your understanding.

In high school they want you to show your work so they can verify you didn't cheat. In higher mathematics if you don't show the step where you expanded a single squared number no one is going to get lost, it was a tedious practice.

But I 100% feel you, my dad couldn't help me with grade 11 physics in English even though he was an engineer in Portugal. He had absolutely no idea what I was going on about, not because he didn't know how to calculate where a projectile would land but because he didn't understand the terminology in my textbook. Once I set up the equation he could help me through it but what I needed help with was the concepts not the math.
In most aspects, I think we do agree. The one place I will quibble a bit is here:

In high school they want you to show your work so they can verify you didn't cheat.
For me, this might be one motivation, but definitely not the only one. The expectation I would set would be "present your solution so that a person who was approximately at this level but didn't know the specific steps involved could follow it." I think there's a lot of value in that.
 

Roleplayer

Active member
Jun 29, 2010
216
86
43
Calculus and Algebra & Geometry were OAC (Grade 13) level math courses when I was in high school. Since then they have gotten rid of grade 13 so I'm not exactly sure if they are taught in high school math anymore.
basketcase is simply muddying the conversation, likely intentionally, instead of focusing on the core issue of fundamental math being taught from a woke perspective.
Calculus and Vectors is a grade 12 course with (also grade 12) Advanced Functions as a corequisite. No one has to take calculus to graduate, though many university programs require it, and many students will find they would be better off having taken it even if it wasn't actually required.

One of the things they did at least partially right when the curriculum was last redesigned was that some concepts are introduced more gradually. This includes some of the introductory calculus stuff like estimating instantaneous rates of change by approximating a tangent line. IIRC, this appears in grade 11.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Exactly, and that comment was from the evolution of the discussion. People cannot say math is black and white, because it isn't. It is to those who only understand basic mathematics, but innumeracy is so high even for the basics that we do need to consider teaching kids that it isn't as rigid as people make it out to be, then maybe they wouldn't be so scared of it.

I'll give the group a euro centric example since it will make them feel more comfortable, my dad's family immigrated from Brasil to Portugal, when my dad does long form division it is completely backwards from what I was taught and confused the hell out of me until he showed me how he does it. Knowing another way to do long form division only made me better at math because it forced me to think of numbers slightly differently.

I was ALWAYS naturally good at math, from grade 2 I was beating all my classmates in flash card games and those 60s drills. But come secondary school where I was being forced into a math box I started butting heads with my teacher since I wasn't following all their exact steps on paper as my brain did most of the work just by looking at the equation. My teachers consistently tried to dock me points even though my final answer was correct and my parents were in there consistently arguing with them that writing all the steps is semantics and what matters is that I learn the concepts and get the correct final answer.

Things like this is why students struggle, the concept of mathematics is a construct, your grade school math level might not have taught you this, but it is. Western society early on agreed on a set of mathematical rules that if ever disrupted would make math impossible - an easy example of this is BEDMAS, we HAVE to write equations to follow this, if we don't no one will get the right answer. BEDMAS is not a natural concept, it is a construct, and there are many more of them in math that we had to agree to to make math as we know it work.

So the irony is, those crying about losing critical thinking in this thread are those who lack it because they were unable to realize that math is not simply first principles, those first principles lay on a bed of assumptions that if ever disturbed would cause havoc in our generation just as it has in previous generations when mathematical "discoveries" came to light.
The irony is that those complaining that math is being taught differently now then when they were kids are actually the ones so inflexible in their thinking that they can't change their approaches and understand new ways of getting to the solution.

The ones who complain about ideologies here are actually the ones so stuck in their ideology that they can only use the math taught to them in school and not puzzle through the way its taught now.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,806
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113
I'm going to (sort of) disagree with some aspects here. I'm drawing on some general experience , some of which may not apply to you specifically, so please forgive me if I appear to inaccurately attribute certain details to your particular experience.

While there are many different ways to do things in math, I also think it's entirely reasonable to require students to follow particular methods. There are a lot of reasons for this.

Linear systems presents a good example. As the curriculum exists, by grade 10 students are exposed to three methods for solving linear systems of two variables: graphing, substitution and elimination. Now, for the algebraic methods, a lot of students tend towards one or the other. Each method has situations in which it's more convenient, though you can actually solve any question you're likely to get at this level using either, so those students often try to only use their preference and balk at the requirement to use the other. But what if, in future study, you are exposed to nonlinear systems? There are times when elimination is the only practical approach and substitution is effectively useless, and there are times the reverse is true. So in practice you would need to have developed both methods. This kind of thing happens all the time in math. We learn different methods for doing things not only to give us options for the immediate task, but because those methods develop different ways of understanding and can be extended in different ways. Very often, students (and teachers for that matter) get caught in the trap of approaching math with only the short term in mind. I believe that's one of the primary reasons many students say "I was really good at math until grade X, and then I hit a wall."

BEDMAS is actually a really good example to delve into for discussing convention. Because it's absolutely true that it's a construct, and it could have been constructed differently. Indeed, taking brackets as a tool to communicate the desired order of operations, we wouldn't technically need any further convention at all, though this would make for some horribly unwieldy expressions. While BEDMAS is a construct, there are also very good reasons it's constructed the way it is. There is a natural progression from addition to multiplication to exponentiation, and operations are partnered with their inverses. In most cases with which we are concerned, it leads to the most efficient way to communicate expressions. And as you said, in practice a knowledge of order of operations is essential to function in algebra.

I absolutely believe a consideration in the assessment of a math student's work is the way they present that work. In higher level math, no one really cares if you got the right answer if you can't clearly communicate why it's the right answer. In most cases, using the established language of mathematics is going to be part of that.

(Aside: I anticipate someone reading this is thinking "who cares about higher level math. Most people never use that anyway. I just want my kids to get the right answer." I think it's valuable to address this. Firstly, a basic principle in education is that you generally teach a subject on the basis that students will progress further in that subject. Consider what the alternative would lead to. And much of the time the value of education doesn't actually come from the specific skills being taught, since it's impossible to anticipate the specific skills everyone is going to need. Rather, it is the development of metaskills that have value no matter what the future holds. Math is an excellent subject for many of those, including the development and communication of convincing logical arguments. A lot of students will get value out of this no matter what they do, just as many will need to follow industry conventions in communicating information in the same way a math student can be expected to use established mathematical language.)

More generally, this issue of the language of mathematics needs much greater attention than it gets. I knew several people who studied math in French immersion until grade 11, at which point they switched to studying math in English. They received no particular support for this transition and it was a real problem for them. Math is a highly technical subject with a great deal of terminology, and they didn't know what their teacher was saying half the time. This is a somewhat extreme example but it is part of a much larger problem. For immigrants, if they come from a place that uses very different conventions, going into a math class can be practically as jarring as going into an English class if they don't speak English. Even for students who always studied in Ontario, sometimes they hit a point they are expected to use conventions no one ever taught them. Frankly, a lot of the time this happens because teachers at the elementary level didn't know those conventions themselves! Which is one of those systemic issues I alluded to in my previous post: there are a lot of people teaching math who don't really know enough about it. That usually isn't their fault; it's the way the system works.
Great post.
I think key to supporting this method is to understand that while the schools are teaching kids math, more important is that they are teaching kids how to think, how to analyze problems and work through them.
Its true in all subjects really, even if its not something they will use later the goal is to train their minds to think clearly.
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
27,426
8,114
113
Room 112
Calculus and Vectors is a grade 12 course with (also grade 12) Advanced Functions as a corequisite. No one has to take calculus to graduate, though many university programs require it, and many students will find they would be better off having taken it even if it wasn't actually required.

One of the things they did at least partially right when the curriculum was last redesigned was that some concepts are introduced more gradually. This includes some of the introductory calculus stuff like estimating instantaneous rates of change by approximating a tangent line. IIRC, this appears in grade 11.
Thanks for that info. I wonder what % of our high school students are taking these courses?
 

Vera.Reis

Mediterranean Paramour
Jan 20, 2020
823
911
113
Toronto
In most aspects, I think we do agree. The one place I will quibble a bit is here:



For me, this might be one motivation, but definitely not the only one. The expectation I would set would be "present your solution so that a person who was approximately at this level but didn't know the specific steps involved could follow it." I think there's a lot of value in that.
You're probably right, it was just always so frustrating to me to need to show what in my mind was unnecessary steps because to me it was so obvious what I was doing. In my first degree I didn't have this problem because geometric proofing baffled me for a while so I needed all the steps to get threw it lol
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,806
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You're probably right, it was just always so frustrating to me to need to show what in my mind was unnecessary steps because to me it was so obvious what I was doing. In my first degree I didn't have this problem because geometric proofing baffled me for a while so I needed all the steps to get threw it lol
I'd agree with Roleplayer as well on this. As a kid in school I was a math prodigy until around grade 8 but never learned to show my work and just gave out answers. That screwed me up in later years where I would make mistakes but didn't take the time to work out where I screwed up. I wish I was forced to show my work now.
 

explorerzip

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2006
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History

If you want to teach history teach history
Historical math? And how it enables systemic racism?
And how to position math within cultural contexts?


Pretty laughable (and for the record I strongly suspect this is some white sjw and not an actual black or native request)

Here is actual link for you to read over, just put the drink down 1st



" Teachers may respectfully incorporate culturally specific examples that highlight First Nations, Inuit, and Métis cultures, histories, present-day realities, ways of knowing, and contributions, to infuse Indigenous knowledges and perspectives meaningfully and authentically into the mathematics program. In this way, culturally specific examples make visible the colonial contexts of present-day mathematics education, centre Indigenous students as mathematical thinkers, and strengthen learning and course content so that all students continue to learn about diverse cultures and communities in a respectful and informed way. Students’ mind, body, and spirit are nourished through connections and creativity. "
Perhaps you should read the quote a little more carefully. "Teachers MAY respectfully..." We have no way to prove this conclusively, but it looks like teachers have the discretion to incorporate cultural examples OR NOT. I don't think teachers should ever be "forced" to do things they don't entirely agree with, but as with everything, it depends on the situation.
 
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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
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I am against examples that are woke nonsense and have nothing to do with the subject matter

As from the part you quoted: cultures, histories, present-day realities, ways of knowing, and contributions

It's math not a history lesson
I could care less who discovered what(and I think most people would be very hard pressed to show any contributions from certain societies anyways)
Read the post directly above yours.
 

explorerzip

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2006
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The irony is that those complaining that math is being taught differently now then when they were kids are actually the ones so inflexible in their thinking that they can't change their approaches and understand new ways of getting to the solution.

The ones who complain about ideologies here are actually the ones so stuck in their ideology that they can only use the math taught to them in school and not puzzle through the way its taught now.
Exactly. It wasn't so long ago that we were taught to memorize multiplication tables and concepts like BEDMAS. These concepts will give a correct answer on a test, but don't give a clear understanding of we're actually doing mathematically. It's the same as punching numbers into a calculator. There's no value in rote learning anymore.

Another example is with the learning companies Kumon and Sylvan. My brother went to both and hated the former with a passion. Kumon's teaching style is just one of constant repetition. Basically, bang your head against the wall until you hopefully understand it. Sylvan, in contract, actually tutored him with his homework and helped him to develop his thinking skills. That is infinitely more important than memory work.

Further, there are few jobs anymore where you can mindlessly bang a hammer to make things. People need to know there are multiple ways to solve problems and there are no such thing as a right answer all the time.
 
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