Will the C's be toppled by a L/N+B coalition?

[LancsLad]

Never, never underestimate your opponent,

nor overestimate your allies.

Lancs, what thf are you drinking ??? ???

Your amigo, DonQ.

I never underestimate the opponent and take great steps to ensure my enemy underestimates me.


The 'spine" line was a borrowing from the old joke regarding ottawa politics that went something like:


Q. Who's the busiest surgeon in Ottawa?

A. The ortho guy after the election as he has to remove all the new lib MP's spines.



To know canadian politics is to see the humour.,\





Harper made a severe tactical error when he took his foot off dions throat over the Party funding formula. All he needed was a little more time and this would be over now. I can't believe he blinked.


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[Questor]

I don't agree, the Tories have proven to the other parties that they cannot be trusted. They have to act now. If they act later, it will just trigger an election as opposed to a coalition government. I think they will do it. It is in all their interests to do so. People that voted for them tend to dislike Harper so they can count on about 60% of Canadians supporting them.

I don't think we disagree at all. The coalition will form, if it hasn't already. The question is: can they gain power and form the government. I say no. Harper is talking about putting the House on vacation until he introduces the new budget in January. Final decision is in the hands of the Governor General.

 

[landscaper]

if he prorouges the parliment until he brings in a throne speach and budget in January it will cause some serious problems for the coalition.

For example if he loads up the budget with things liberal M.P.s approve of how do they vote it down and then explain that they are not contemplating a power grab . The budget had good stuff but thy voted it down? Interesting

Any reasonable delay by prorouging will not work to the coalitions favour. Things will come out, things like the bloc being given 6 senate seats once the coaliton is in power, Elizabeth May is also going to get a senate seat for some reason .

Things like this are why the platforms in elections are so important to understand.

The NDP has already agreed to reverse themselves on the cororporate tax cuts that they campigned against from one end of teh country to the other. Principles indeed

 

[fuji]

if he prorouges the parliment until he brings in a throne speach and budget in January it will cause some serious problems for the coalition.

True, but it causes problems for the Conservativs too, so it is quite a gamble.

In that case the opposition would probably prefer to go straight into a general election, pointing out that the Conservatives are so selfish, power hungry, and deseperate that they suspended all operation of Parliament for a few weeks just to hang on to power a little longer, even though Canada desperately needed a functioning Parliament in order to deal with the economic crisis.

Pretty selfish to deny Canadians access to a working Parliament at a time of crisis just so you can cling to power a few more weeks isn't it?

So you can no doubt find some counter points and things the Conservatives would say, but I think they'd rather not fight an election under those terms.

 

[LancsLad]

True, but it causes problems for the Conservativs too, so it is quite a gamble.

In that case the opposition would probably prefer to go straight into a general election, pointing out that the Conservatives are so selfish, power hungry, and deseperate that they suspended all operation of Parliament for a few weeks just to hang on to power a little longer, even though Canada desperately needed a functioning Parliament in order to deal with the economic crisis.

Pretty selfish to deny Canadians access to a working Parliament at a time of crisis just so you can cling to power a few more weeks isn't it?

So you can no doubt find some counter points and things the Conservatives would say, but I think they'd rather not fight an election under those terms.

Actually considering the dullards that we have from all parties in Ottawa I think that the people of Canada are much better served when they are not in session. If they are doing nothing, they can do no wrong.



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[slowpoke]

...Any reasonable delay by prorouging will not work to the coalitions favour. Things will come out, things like the bloc being given 6 senate seats once the coaliton is in power, Elizabeth May is also going to get a senate seat for some reason .

Things like this are why the platforms in elections are so important to understand.

The NDP has already agreed to reverse themselves on the cororporate tax cuts that they campigned against from one end of teh country to the other. Principles indeed

First of all, I'd like to see you back up your claim that May and 6 Bloc members have been promised senate seats once the coalition has the confidence of the house. Are there really 7 senate seats available? Wouldn't the NDP get any seats? I've been watching this coalition story quite carefully and your post is the first I've heard about these bizarre promises. Call me crazy but I'm pretty certain that this would have been headline news if there was a shred of truth to it.

Secondly, Layton (along with the Libs and Bloc) have all managed to set aside their political differences for approximately 18 months in order to get the rampantly incompetent Harper and his toxic little sidekick, Flaherty, away from the levers of power. The ideological sacrifices and the overall climate of restraint that now prevails among our opposition parties is exactly what a serial-minority leader like Harpo could have and should have achieved if he wasn't such such a rabidly partisan little robo-fuck. If the 3 opposition parties can so easily find the necessary common ground to overthrow Harper, why couldn't Harper have similarly accomodated the opposition before it came to this?

 

[landscaper]

First of all, I'd like to see you back up your claim that May and 6 Bloc members have been promised senate seats once the coalition has the confidence of the house. Are there really 7 senate seats available? Wouldn't the NDP get any seats? I've been watching this coalition story quite carefully and your post is the first I've heard about these bizarre promises. Call me crazy but I'm pretty certain that this would have been headline news if there was a shred of truth to it.

Secondly, Layton (along with the Libs and Bloc) have all managed to set aside their political differences for approximately 18 months in order to get the rampantly incompetent Harper and his toxic little sidekick, Flaherty, away from the levers of power. The ideological sacrifices and the overall climate of restraint that now prevails among our opposition parties is exactly what a serial-minority leader like Harpo could have and should have achieved if he wasn't such such a rabidly partisan little robo-fuck. If the 3 opposition parties can so easily find the necessary common ground to overthrow Harper, why couldn't Harper have similarly accomodated the opposition before it came to this?

The bloc senate seats were mentioned on Mike Duffy as well as Elizabeth Mays seat and post as minister of teh environment. The source was the provincial bloc leader , no denials were forthcoming from the coalition. There are currently 18 seats open in the senate.

The provincial bloc leader also stated in an election stop that 1.2 billion in additional funding had been promised.

This is the real problem with this coalition, nobody actually knows what the three leaders have agreed to, ther is no platform that has been debated, do want to wake up one morning and find out that your electricity bill is going up by an order of magnitude because the greens who famously elected nobody in the last election are running the environment ministry and decided that all electricity must be generated by non polluting means? The greens also made a deal during the election not to run anybody against Stephane Dion is teh seat payback? Who knows thats the problem

 

[landscaper]

Just wondering what it says about the leaders of the NDP and Liberals that they can set aside their prioritities for the sake of governing. The green shift and the tax cut rollbacks were primary principles for the campaigns. They were rejected by 78% and 83% of the electorate respectivly, now are we going to see tehm by another name or are we going to see something different, nobody knows, we havce to depend on three people whos parties were rejected by the voting public by massive margins to decide whats good for us. That was what we just had an election for and they were found wanting.

 

[someone]

The bloc senate seats were mentioned on Mike Duffy as well as Elizabeth Mays seat and post as minister of teh environment.

The Globe quoted Elizabeth May as saying she talked about the seat with Dion. I don't have time to find a link right now, but it will be on the Globe's webpage. Slowpoke's first reaction is always to defend the liberals no matter what the issue or details.

 

[red]

The Globe quoted Elizabeth May as saying she talked about the seat with Dion. I don't have time to find a link right now, but it will be on the Globe's webpage. Slowpoke's first reaction is always to defend the liberals no matter what the issue or details.

i have seen the article but I didn't see how it made any sense. why would he offer a seat in the senate?

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

i have seen the article but I didn't see how it made any sense. why would he offer a seat in the senate?

That is where Liberals put all of their buddies. It's their way of saying thanks, for a job poorly done.

 

[landscaper]

its the only way to get her into cabinet as environmint minister. It could be as payback for favours done during the election but who knows that is the problem nobody does know what they are going to do.

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

its the only way to get her into cabinet as environmint minister.

Democracy at work.

I'm more interested in the cabinet positions reserved for the Bloc MPs.

 

[landscaper]

there are no cabinet positions for the bloc, that way they can say they are not cooperating with the separatists. They only need them to support the legislation brougt forward, now why would they support any legislation that did not help them out. They certainly are not here to make sure Alberta and Ontario get a fair shake. There is going to be a quid pro quo somewhere, if there is not the Bloc just cut their own throats in Quebec with their own supporters.

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

there are no cabinet positions for the bloc, that way they can say they are not cooperating with the separatists. They only need them to support the legislation brougt forward, now why would they support any legislation that did not help them out. They certainly are not here to make sure Alberta and Ontario get a fair shake. There is going to be a quid pro quo somewhere, if there is not the Bloc just cut their own throats in Quebec with their own supporters.

Duceppe has already publically stated he is supporting the coalition only to further the separatist cause.

"Layton and Dion won't change. They're federalists and I'm a sovereigntist," he said. "I think every gain we're making here is good for Quebec, and what's good for Quebec is good for a sovereign Quebec."

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2008/12/02/7612216-sun.html

 

[landscaper]

Duceppe has already publically stated he is supporting the coalition only to further the separatist cause.

"Layton and Dion won't change. They're federalists and I'm a sovereigntist," he said. "I think every gain we're making here is good for Quebec, and what's good for Quebec is good for a sovereign Quebec."

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2008/12/02/7612216-sun.html

That quote says it all the only questions are what gains for Quebec is he talking about, money soverignty, free poutine? Those are the details that need the light of day