What is going on with TO????

[TheNiteHwk]

So what?!

So who cares... the stats are level or maybe even down? First off I don't believe it... the stats could be cooked. Second who cares if we are fairly safe compared to or not as bad as other large cities. This means we should just accept the crime that there IS here. Just disregard it and say "OH Well" "We are not as bad as Detroit" So we should just let it be?

I don't care about the stats or comparisons. My point is even one crack dealer on the corner is too many. And we have hundreds. And YES it is that bad. And we can't get rid of them because LE does not have enough money, equipment, officers or strong enough laws to employ. As long as this situation con't more people are going to die. Maybe we can never rid ourselves of this and other crimes completely. True. I just happen to believe we CAN do more then we are. But as long as we sit around saying "So what... it's not that bad... only 60 murders last year... we are safer then LA or where ever" then we have no motivation to do anything about the problem that we DO have. And I think that is sad. That's All.

 

[someone]

Re: Nothing to worry about???

$70,000 too much to pay cops? Policing (IMO) IS a very dangerous job.

The statistics disagree with you. The main work related injuries/illnesses they suffer from are those common to all shift workers and we don’t' pay most shift workers anywhere near $70 000.

 

[someone]

Re: So what?!

So who cares... the stats are level or maybe even down? First off I don't believe it... the stats could be cooked. ...

I don't care about the stats or comparisons. My point is even one crack dealer on the corner is too many.

Putting aside the possibility of a great conspiracy to fake crime statistics (why the police department would want to understate crime statistics that they could use to justify budget increases is beyond me). If you really think that zero crime is a REALISTIC goal, you have lost me. Do you no any place in the world that has zero crime? (Other than uninhabited areas of the world.)

 

[Magister]

Re: So what?!

So who cares... the stats are level or maybe even down? First off I don't believe it... the stats could be cooked.

Your world sounds like a very scary place. Very Kafkaesque indeed!
Imagine the whole criminal justice system cooking their stats! I weep for all the poor victims whose deaths will forever remain unacknowledged by evil doctoring statisticians.

Truth be told, as previously mentioned, murder victims usually know their assailant. You are far more likely to be killed by your wife or girlfriend when she discovers your hobbying than by the neighbourhood crack proprietor.

 

[HowardHughes]

Actually, I was going to make a run for Mayor as a joke.

I said that I would run if others put up the money for it (think $100 to register).

My platform was going to be that of Mayor "Diamond" Joe Quimby. I would simply get it out in the open and say that I accept bribes, and kick-backs - my campaign headquarters was going to be my basement (plus a case of beer). I figure if Ben Kerr can run, I could as well - might even scoop up well over 20 votes too!!

However, on a serious note - I would love more than ever to lay out extra cash for more Cops - the way I see it, you can never have enough in Toronto.

So...if I do decide to come out of my Penthouse suite...well, I'll be the guy in the debates wearing the fedora.

HH

 

[kwong_1978]

NightHwk,

Sorry to hear about your lost. I never intended to give the impression that I don't care about crime. IMO, your comment "better bring a gun cause you might need it," is a little over the top. A little bit of fear mongering on your part. We all have our passion, and it seems total elimination of street crimes is one of yours. I understand that we should not/never be complacent, but you have to give credit where credit is due and Toronto's LE is doing a good job.

 

[someone]

I'm also sorry about your loses.
It occured to me that when it comes to the media that you might want to consider reading a book by John Alen Paulos entitled "A mathematician reads the newspaper". It is an easy read and you might find it causes you to question news coverage a bit more. Just a thought.

 

[DenWa]

Nitehawk - I agree with you that crime is a problem in any big city. I was merely trying to point out that you guys have it a lot better than most cities. If I had to choose a place to live, Toronto would be the lesser of a lot of evils. And I take a little offense at the ever-constant assumption that the problem is the police. Police have the hardest fucking job on the planet, and when things are good they get no credit - when things are bad they get all the blame. Thank God we have them.

DW

 

[TheNiteHwk]

Complacency & denial...

That's exactly what I have been trying to stress. Thanks Vanessa and others for your support and comments. I too love Toronto. I also respect and tip my hat to the police. Sometimes I disagree with their priorities... but over all given the limited 'tools' they have to work with I think they are doing a great job. Yes my statement 'better bring a gun' was a little over the top. I was just trying to stress my point. Like I said... I was one of those 'hippy types' back in the '70s. I practically lived on the Yonge Street Mall in '71 all summer. Maybe the stats say that crime rates are level or even down... but people were not getting shot dead in the street in those days. It was flower power and make love not war. Today the atmosphere is something much different. The average citizen is not aware I think cause they have not been there... done that… as I have. All they know is 9-5, shopping malls, the Leafs and the Jays. More power too them and I wish them well and fruitful happy lives. I do not begrudge them, you or anybody. I just think we have a lot of problems that are not as acknowledged as they should be. Therefore we are not addressing these problems as much as we should or could. I keep harping about addiction not only because I am an addict as was my 2 brothers, my sister and my Dad… but because (if you want to talk stats) stats show that 70 something % of people in jail are there as direct or indirect result of addiction or alcoholism. I believe we need to put the parasite perps in jail and help the addicts more then we are. Yes I am very passionate about it because of my personal experiences. My life goal is too be just ½ the man my younger brother was. He devoted the entire last 8 years of his life to helping others even though he was HIV+. He lobbied the government for more funding. He visited and spoke at schools, treatment centers and jails. He tried to ‘pass the message’. He died a true hero. His funeral was filled to over capacity… people were out in the parking lot. Because He reached out and touched a lot of people. If in all my ranting here and other places I can just ‘touch’ one person today and 'pass the message' then maybe some day I will be ½ the man he was.

Thanks for listening.

 

[TheNiteHwk]

Pro1...

Yes immigration is a problem... IMO. I don't think it's the majority of immigrants... but a lot of ciminals are coming here because of our lax laws, lax enforcement and petty punishment. They are not only here from the Caribbean though. They are also here from E. Europe, Asia, & South America.

 

[HornyTime]

What's crazy is I have a cousin in the UK, who speaks proper English, and can't get into this country. He doesn't have a degree, but he has worked for 8 years at Jaguar, and could get a job as a mechanic in about 5 minutes here I think.

When he vacationed in Florida he walked into a Jaguar repair and was hired. He worked there for about six months (illegal of course) before going back to the UK.

I think if my cousin came on spec, he should be able to attempt to get a job. If he can find one, he can stay, if not he has to get out. I'm sure he'd take this risk.

 

[TheNiteHwk]

I agree...

with both your points Pro1. But don't kid yourself... other 'crime groups' may not be as 'out in the open' as some but they can be and are just as violent. They just do it more quite and more behind closed doors.

Horny Time: You are soooo right. IMO.

Funny thing... or maybe not so funny... I have an E. Indian friend who was actually born in South Africa... he just got let go from a Jag dealer here in TO.

 

[Lady Sarah]

I was born and raised in Toronto. I literally cry sometimes over how crappy things have become.
I live in Parkdale. That comment should stand on its own, I know, but I cannot overstate what a sorry sight a city which was once world-reknowned for its cleanliness, friendliness and general liveability has become.
I am basically a tolerant person, or at least I used to be...but my limits have been tested and I have a few beefs, in no particular order:
1. The homeless. Pathetic junkie leeches who expect hardworking people to support their addictions. If one more rubbie asks me for change for a cup of coffee when I KNOW there are DOZENS of bleeding heart social services drop-in centers they can go to for coffee, food, cigarettes...I will make someone a mischief. Whatever people give them goes to crack or liquor, period. Don't even talk to me...and don't blame society for your circumstance. We owe you nothing.
2. The general rudeness. I skate pretty much everywhere, and wear form-fitting, relevant but not revealing clothing when doing so. THAT DOES NOT GIVE PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO YELL AFTER ME, MAKE DISGUSTING COMMENTS AND GENERALLY BE INHUMAN. I would sincerely appreciate if men would remember that WOMEN gave birth to them.
3. The stinking, embarrassing state of our streets and parks. DOES ANYONE ACTUALLY WORK FOR THE CITY OF TORONTO, or do they just pick up a paycheque for standing around doing f***all, laughing all the way to cash them?
4. The fact that it appears that the people who should be having children don't, and the people that should NOT just keep on f***ing with reckless abandon, perpetuating their abject stupidity through their progeny into our society. WHERE THE HELL ARE THE FATHERS???
5. Directly related to number 4: THE STATE OF OUR EDUCATIONAL "SYSTEM" ...it is in a shambles because NO-ONE cares. The kids are stupid, their parents are even dumber and the teachers can't spin gold from shit. When I was a little girl, dude! Never mind textbooks being provided free of charge to us, we would get pencil crayons, notebooks, and assorted educational aids handed out to us daily. We were taught we were valuable. We were nurtured. Have you seen the inner city kids today? By God, I am horrified that these are the leaders of the future. I can only hope they overdose before they can go on welfare.
6. The traffic congestion.
7. The pigsty that is Chinatown. I am NOT a racist, I am not trying to instill hate in any veiled tirade against a certain community's disdain for sanitation in any form...but my Lord! What a cesspool of stink and carelessness. I avoid the area at all costs.
8. When did spitting on the street become fashionable? DIS-GUS-TING. I call people on it every day...not afraid to get in someone's face about it, whether it's a senior or a fourteen year old girl. You may as well drop your gitch and take a dump in the roadway.

Look, with BIG respect to our Moderator, I understand if you choose to not allow this to be posted. I cannot emphasize enough that I have NO hatred for ANY group or community. I am just so sick and tired of it all. I pay my taxes, I expect better. Someone at city hall is clearly embezzeling BIG TIME...where the hell is all the money? Going to arts grants, I suspect. I HOPE I have established enough credibility on this board to not be reviled for my opinions, but even I (LOL) have my rope limit, and I appreciate the opportunity to vent. I cannot be alone in my opinions, here.

 

[wrong hole]

I was born and raised in Toronto. I literally cry sometimes over how crappy things have become.
I live in Parkdale. That comment should stand on its own, I know, but I cannot overstate what a sorry sight a city which was once world-reknowned for its cleanliness, friendliness and general liveability has become.
I am basically a tolerant person, or at least I used to be...but my limits have been tested and I have a few beefs, in no particular order:
1. The homeless. Pathetic junkie leeches who expect hardworking people to support their addictions. If one more rubbie asks me for change for a cup of coffee when I KNOW there are DOZENS of bleeding heart social services drop-in centers they can go to for coffee, food, cigarettes...I will make someone a mischief. Whatever people give them goes to crack or liquor, period. Don't even talk to me...and don't blame society for your circumstance. We owe you nothing.
2. The general rudeness. I skate pretty much everywhere, and wear form-fitting, relevant but not revealing clothing when doing so. THAT DOES NOT GIVE PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO YELL AFTER ME, MAKE DISGUSTING COMMENTS AND GENERALLY BE INHUMAN. I would sincerely appreciate if men would remember that WOMEN gave birth to them.
3. The stinking, embarrassing state of our streets and parks. DOES ANYONE ACTUALLY WORK FOR THE CITY OF TORONTO, or do they just pick up a paycheque for standing around doing f***all, laughing all the way to cash them?
4. The fact that it appears that the people who should be having children don't, and the people that should NOT just keep on f***ing with reckless abandon, perpetuating their abject stupidity through their progeny into our society. WHERE THE HELL ARE THE FATHERS???
5. Directly related to number 4: THE STATE OF OUR EDUCATIONAL "SYSTEM" ...it is in a shambles because NO-ONE cares. The kids are stupid, their parents are even dumber and the teachers can't spin gold from shit. When I was a little girl, dude! Never mind textbooks being provided free of charge to us, we would get pencil crayons, notebooks, and assorted educational aids handed out to us daily. We were taught we were valuable. We were nurtured. Have you seen the inner city kids today? By God, I am horrified that these are the leaders of the future. I can only hope they overdose before they can go on welfare.
6. The traffic congestion.
7. The pigsty that is Chinatown. I am NOT a racist, I am not trying to instill hate in any veiled tirade against a certain community's disdain for sanitation in any form...but my Lord! What a cesspool of stink and carelessness. I avoid the area at all costs.
8. When did spitting on the street become fashionable? DIS-GUS-TING. I call people on it every day...not afraid to get in someone's face about it, whether it's a senior or a fourteen year old girl. You may as well drop your gitch and take a dump in the roadway.

Look, with BIG respect to our Moderator, I understand if you choose to not allow this to be posted. I cannot emphasize enough that I have NO hatred for ANY group or community. I am just so sick and tired of it all. I pay my taxes, I expect better. Someone at city hall is clearly embezzeling BIG TIME...where the hell is all the money? Going to arts grants, I suspect. I HOPE I have established enough credibility on this board to not be reviled for my opinions, but even I (LOL) have my rope limit, and I appreciate the opportunity to vent. I cannot be alone in my opinions, here.

WOW...that's alot of hatred....rather sad...

...you just forgot to mention old people and puppy dogs...

 

[2sexxxy]

Re: And just when you think you've heard it all.....

I hope for all our sakes, you *are* alone in this one.

Unfortunetely there are plenty of a**holes.

 

[LateComer]

Lady Sarah may have overstated her beefs but they are valid, the comment about inner city kids notwithstanding. I especially agree with point #4. It seems to me that the stupid and lazy people are having as many kids as they can (presumably to maximize their welfare benefits) while the hard working majority are having fewer children - kind of like Darwinism in reverse.

 

[groo39]

Re: Re: Nothing to worry about???

Despite Toronto’s rapid population growth, the number of murders has held steady at around 60 per year.

Murders make the news, but even in the worst districts of Philadelphia, most people are far more wary of muggings, theft, and assault/rape than they are of actually being killed. Most US murders outside of domestic violence are the result of interrupting a robbery, resisting a mugger, or otherwise surprising a common thief who happens to have a gun.

By focusing on murder stats, the police also seem to steer people away from digging too much into the number of non-violent crimes that affect the majority of victims (i.e. citizens.)

Go to the area of 5th & Cambria in Philadelphia, and you'll see one of the worst drug districts in the city. A couple gunfights a week. Constant racial issues. Accusations of police brutality. A steady flow of emergency vehicles tending to accidents, domestic violence, muggings, etc. Or so it seems if you believe the news.

Yet the hispanic restaurants are great, the people are friendly, the food is good, and I never felt any more "at risk" than in the better districts of Toronto. The worst that ever happened in several years was being offered drugs I wasn't interested in buying.

They also had the _best_ block parties of any area I've lived in...

 

[someone]

Lady Sarah although I don't agree with all the points of your post (in particular point 7, I like China town) as someone who has lived in Parkdale, I can understand where you are coming from. I think that you have some legitimate points to make which those who have always had a middle class background may not understand.

 

[groo39]

.... those who have always had a middle class background may not understand.

Personally I've lived in a $350/mo 2-bedroom not-quite-slum with drug dealers, career B&E artists, ex-cons, and SPs for neighbours. It was a very racially mixed complex, and was what got me "turned on" to the lively, friendly hispanic and carribean cultures.

Yes, I've also lived in much better areas. But it really frosts me when low-income people use their situation as an excuse for developing anti-social attitudes, particularly when it degrades into such bitter comments as hoping people die of overdose.

 

[someone]

groo39, my point was just meant to imply that when you have to put up with the day-to-day stuff in Parkdale you lose your patience. I agree that the statement on overdoses was over the top. However, although I don't know what was in her mind when she wrote it, I read it as more of a statement of frustration than a serious proposal.

BTW, I think that a major contributing factor in Parkdale involves the very large number of half-way houses and similar facilities (criminal, mental, etc.) in such a small area. These facilities are needed but they should not all be put in one area simply because it is too poor to have any political influence.