Wet Basement needs repair........

[blueline]

Well the first quote is in and it was for $5,000. I hope I received all the pertinent info that I should have........

-showed me the license number in his ad, I can call City of Hamilton to verify

-he arranges to get the work permit, told me to be careful because some contractors expect me to obtain it

-I didn't see his insurance info or policy number but he told me he has $2 mil liability insurance with Dominion of Canada, told me to check him out, no problem

-I asked about WSIB coverage and he told me he does need that because it is a family business, him and his son. I asked about injury protection etc and he said his policy covers that along with any property damage. Should I be concerned or just go ahead and verify with his Ins Comp that he is fully covered for injury and property damage? Do I need to see some kind of certificate showing WSIB coverage for my own peace of mind or will the phone call to Dominion suffice?

He said he has been around the longest time in Hamilton and the city can verify his credentials once I call them. I plan on calling

- I will receive a written transferable guarantee/warranty upon completion. Payment due after completion, nothing up front. Cheque or cash.

Is there anythng else I should have asked? I never discussed materials, his suppliers, how it is delivered, etc. Should I find that out from him and then make sure I ask the next contractor?

thanks.

 

[oldjones]

Although you can get pretty good results, from the right contractor using the right materials and techniques, you're more or less trying to waterproff your leaky boat while it's in the water. Better it shoulda been done as it was being built. Like the houses being built in Holland that actually will float.

Essentially, after the fact you're stuck with some version of what C Dick did: Persuade the water it would be happier going somewhere else down the easy channel you have provided. He does it after the water's in, James T.'s method provides the channels outside. But all masonery is water permeable, and unless the floor and the underside of the footings are also sealed they'll absorb water and transfer it up through the walls—the English call it rising damp—and houses with brick foundations which predominate in old Toronto are particularly subject to it. It can take weeks after a successful outside waterproofing, for the water-soaked bricks to dry.

That's what I experienced w/ my waterproofing adventure. Warm and dry since, but…

Your best bet is to give up the pipedream of a finished basement you can ignore, as you do the upstairs rooms of you house. Think of the space as a weird boat afloat in a very mucky sea (at least you won't sink) and you'll do way better. As the captain, you hafta be constantly on the look out, from speccing the right, durable, water-resistant materials inside and out, to inspecting at every stage of their installation and afterwards. It will get damp or wet, provide for drying it out—don't use materials like ordinary drywall that can't take that. Make sure you can see the dark places where mould grows, then be sure you go look at them. Frequently. Clean and check gutters and downspouts, slope your patio to drain away,…. You get the picture.

Captain Kirk's waterproofing procedure's a good one, you should establish that your candidate contractor's are expected to do exactly that or better. From my own experience: Insist on an satisfactory inspection of each step before it's covered up by the next one (you'll have to make yourself available, they will not sit around waiting for you) and they either make good any deficiencies then, or they're paid off and out. Be sure you understand exactly how the backfilling will be done, what it will look like when finished, what happens to any excess soil (if you insulate, there will be considerable) and the scope of topsoil/landscaping restoration. Finally, what happens if it leaks again? A mere "lifetime guarantee' no matter how sincere, isn't enough. How fast will they respond? How will they determine what's wrong w/ the fix? If the original fix isn't working, what further work can be done? At whose expense?

Remember, if we were supposed to live in holes in the ground we'd be Hobbits.

 

[Moraff]

Well the first quote is in and it was for $5,000. I hope I received all the pertinent info that I should have........

-showed me the license number in his ad, I can call City of Hamilton to verify

-he arranges to get the work permit, told me to be careful because some contractors expect me to obtain it

Which is why it is one of the questions that must be asked.

-I didn't see his insurance info or policy number but he told me he has $2 mil liability insurance with Dominion of Canada, told me to check him out, no problem

While he is probably honest, I would still check

-I asked about WSIB coverage and he told me he does need that because it is a family business, him and his son. I asked about injury protection etc and he said his policy covers that along with any property damage. Should I be concerned or just go ahead and verify with his Ins Comp that he is fully covered for injury and property damage? Do I need to see some kind of certificate showing WSIB coverage for my own peace of mind or will the phone call to Dominion suffice?

Not sure if he is correct on this. My understanding is that he wouldn't need WSIB coverage if he were working solo, as soon as there are employees you need WSIB. However there may be an exception for family. Contact WSIB to be sure. His Dominion of Canada insurance covers damages/injury to property and people not in his employ. If he does need WSIB for his son and doesn't and the son gets hurt you would likely be liable.

He said he has been around the longest time in Hamilton and the city can verify his credentials once I call them. I plan on calling

Good

- I will receive a written transferable guarantee/warranty upon completion. Payment due after completion, nothing up front. Cheque or cash.

If you pay cash, make sure you get a receipt as well as the warranty.

Is there anythng else I should have asked? I never discussed materials, his suppliers, how it is delivered, etc. Should I find that out from him and then make sure I ask the next contractor?

Yes, if you don't specify materials then theoretically the contractor could dig down, paint the wall with pool paint, put down some pvc pipe with a few holes drilled in it and backfill with what he took out (ie no crushed stone around the pipe). (It would be several violations of the OBC but if he figures you don't know what the requirements should be.....)

Will this happen if you don't specify? Most likely not if you are going with an established contractor. But you have thrown away the safety net if you don't nail down what you expect to be done.

The other thing you can (must?) do is talk to your insurance company and let them know you are doing this project. They might have some tips for you too as well as requirements to ensure you don't void your insurance.

 

[Moraff]

Although you can get pretty good results, from the right contractor using the right materials and techniques, you're more or less trying to waterproff your leaky boat while it's in the water. Better it shoulda been done as it was being built. Like the houses being built in Holland that actually will float.

Even if it was done to today's standards when it was being built, eventually it would have to be redone.

Essentially, after the fact you're stuck with some version of what Moraff did: Persuade the water it would be happier going somewhere else down the easy channel you have provided. He does it after the water's in,

Point of order: That was Cdick's solution, I stated that I thought it was a poor idea.

James T.'s method provides the channels outside. But all masonery is water permeable, and unless the floor and the underside of the footings are also sealed they'll absorb water and transfer it up through the walls—the English call it rising damp—and houses with brick foundations which predominate in old Toronto are particularly subject to it. It can take weeks after a successful outside waterproofing, for the water-soaked bricks to dry.

That's what I experienced w/ my waterproofing adventure. Warm and dry since, but…

Your best bet is to give up the pipedream of a finished basement you can ignore, as you do the upstairs rooms of you house. Think of the space as a weird boat afloat in a very mucky sea (at least you won't sink) and you'll do way better. As the captain, you hafta be constantly on the look out, from speccing the right, durable, water-resistant materials inside and out, to inspecting at every stage of their installation and afterwards. It will get damp or wet, provide for drying it out—don't use materials like ordinary drywall that can't take that. Make sure you can see the dark places where mould grows, then be sure you go look at them. Frequently. Clean and check gutters and downspouts, slope your patio to drain away,…. You get the picture.

Yup, also having a good dehumidifier is also a key point in your moisture defense, even if you have perfectly sealed the entire basement (unlikely)

Captain Kirk's waterproofing procedure's a good one, you should establish that your candidate contractor's are expected to do exactly that or better. From my own experience: Insist on an satisfactory inspection of each step before it's covered up by the next one (you'll have to make yourself available, they will not sit around waiting for you) and they either make good any deficiencies then, or they're paid off and out. Be sure you understand exactly how the backfilling will be done, what it will look like when finished, what happens to any excess soil (if you insulate, there will be considerable) and the scope of topsoil/landscaping restoration. Finally, what happens if it leaks again? A mere "lifetime guarantee' no matter how sincere, isn't enough. How fast will they respond? How will they determine what's wrong w/ the fix? If the original fix isn't working, what further work can be done? At whose expense?

Remember, if we were supposed to live in holes in the ground we'd be Hobbits.

 

[Moraff]

Wow, funny how every one is an expert (myself included!) I really feel for people having to depend on contractors and whoever to fix these things. So many are wrong.

First off, grandpa next door lacks a fundamental understanding of the problem. The problem being that water is draining TO your foundation wall and through it into your basement. The primary defense is to keep water AWAY from your house through grading and proper use of eavestroughs and downspouts.

Definitely true.

Putting gravel around the wall is counterproductive. Gravel will drain water through it thereby allowing it to get down deeper! The shingles are a crude method of keeping water away from the porous gravel.

If the gravel went all the way to the surface I would agree with you 100%. However the purpose of the gravel around the weeping tile is to give the water a clear path to the weeping tile. If the water has gotten to the gravel it's already at your foundation so it behooves the homeowner to get it out and down the drain pdq. The gravel helps keep the weeping tiles from filling up with sediment for many more years than it would if it wasn't present.

Besides which, the OBC requires it around the weeping tile (Section 9.14)

The shingles are a crude attempt at keeping the dirt out of the weeping tiles as well as trying to redirect water back away from the wall. Fine theory but not a good practice.

Here is a quicksumamry as I see it.

First, if you have this much water coming into your basement, the first thing you need to do is removed the 60's era panelling, insulation adn get to the bare foundation wall. No way around this as you WILL have mold within the wall. And you nooed to visually see where the water is getting in and how.

This would be a good plan of attack.

 

[landscaper]

Well the first quote is in and it was for $5,000. I hope I received all the pertinent info that I should have........

-showed me the license number in his ad, I can call City of Hamilton to verify

-he arranges to get the work permit, told me to be careful because some contractors expect me to obtain it

-I didn't see his insurance info or policy number but he told me he has $2 mil liability insurance with Dominion of Canada, told me to check him out, no problem

-I asked about WSIB coverage and he told me he does need that because it is a family business, him and his son. I asked about injury protection etc and he said his policy covers that along with any property damage. Should I be concerned or just go ahead and verify with his Ins Comp that he is fully covered for injury and property damage? Do I need to see some kind of certificate showing WSIB coverage for my own peace of mind or will the phone call to Dominion suffice?

He said he has been around the longest time in Hamilton and the city can verify his credentials once I call them. I plan on calling

- I will receive a written transferable guarantee/warranty upon completion. Payment due after completion, nothing up front. Cheque or cash.

Is there anythng else I should have asked? I never discussed materials, his suppliers, how it is delivered, etc. Should I find that out from him and then make sure I ask the next contractor?

thanks.

He still needs a Sole proprieters exemption from WSIB It means he is registered but does not pay premiums as he is the sole proprietor. Get a clearance letter from WSIB BEFORE PAYING FOR THE WORK. Wsib can come after you for any money that he owes them.

 

[oldjones]

…edit…
Point of order: That was Cdick's solution, I stated that I thought it was a poor idea.

Ooops, my misattribution shall be corrected. My apologies to you.

 

[Moraff]

I understand grandpa was just hand digging a trench around the perimeter on the surface, not digging clear down to the footings. Then he was covering up the serface gravel with shingles.

Of course footing drains require gravel. Some evn recommend geotextile to cover the gravel before backfilling.

My apologies, I went back and reread the original post. On first reading I had assumed that he dug down to the footings as to do it the way he actually appears to be doing is totally incorrect as you stated.

 

[C Dick]

As I previously stated, there are two ways to do a job.

The right way and the wrong way.

This is the wrong way.

Even if the water table is high, you can control water from ingressing.

Yes, I agree, simply diverting the water once it is inside the basement is not a great solution, though it was worth it to not have it pooling under the floor. There were basically two reasons we decided not to do it the right way:
- Most of the foundation guys we had in just said forget it, it is too wet, it won't work. The rest said they would do the work, but would offer no promise of any kind that it would actually reduce the amount of water coming in.
- The house is not exactly a castle, it is 40+ years old, the people we bought it from had intended to tear it down, so they did not exactly take care of it. When they could not get permits for the demolition, they sold it to us for less than half what they paid. We like informal living, I feel comfortable drilling holes or running wires anywhere, and Mrs CD has no interest in housekeeping. When it finally collapses, we will have another one built.

 

[jughead]

A new weeping tile and foundation coating will only do so much if the ground is sloped into the house guess which way the rain water from the yard will go.

just my 2 cents though.


Talk to a lawyer before you sign any contract.

And continue to ask lots of questions.

 

[blueline]

On the first nugget of advice....Uhhh, duh!

Do you really think that a contractor who digs all the way to the footings, puts in a new weeping tile, repairs and seals the foundation is then going to finish this big job by sloping the ground to the house?

LOL ........... even ole Uncle Elmer, out on his day pass from the Retirement Home, knew enough to slope his 'now famous' shingles away from the house.

 

[Mencken]

The original method, while somewhat crude, would work in many situations...but probably not meet codes, etc. It would work if there is a good weeping tile system in place and there wasn't a lot of surface water running straight down along the wall. But if you have the money go for the beetter solutions...digging, waterproofing, etc. etc.

The way gravel works is that any "free" water will get down to the weeping tile before touching the wall as long as the shingle/soil barrier and surface sloping, eves, downspouts keep water away from the wall above ground. The soil, especially if it has a lot of clay in it acts as a barrier to free water...so keeping it away from the wall will probably work.

The only problem is that the weeping tile and conditions under the floor might be the actual problem...and fixing the wall surface on the outside might then not solve anything. Hence get a professional in.