Video Surveillance - Maybe I am Naive?

[Jabba]

If I may chip in, I believe all of the reputable places, lobby's of apartment buildings and security for the buildings where these places reside, have security cameras in common areas. It just makes sense.

Dealing in cash and personal affects (jewelry, clothes, etc) leaves you open to robberies, which happens quite often in this industry across the country.
Being able to see who is behind the door before you open it - not knowing could result in undesirables being able to have access to ones business.
Theft/loss prevention between co-workers, or dishonest practices from staff/corporate theft
Professional conduct
General security.

If something happens, its very important to be able to be a personal witness to what transpired then playing the guessing game.

We live in a big brother society, there are CCTV cameras all over, watching you, monitoring you ensuring your compliance with our social norms and values.

I think to assume any nefarious doings by reputable adult establishments because they ensure the security of both its staff and clients, is in my opinion, unfair. Your general concern about being "outted" due to an arrest on the evening news because you were caught on camera entering into the building, then you should question why that establishment would be in trouble with the law and under investigation in the first place. Do your research and stick with places that operate above board legally and run clean places...

I am not aware, nor have I heard rumours to the affect that any business has cameras in the rooms, bathrooms or any other area where they would be an expectation of complete privacy.


If you are generally concerned, may I suggest wearing a hat or hoodie as you walk in the door to ensure your continued discretion This is way to much fun to let such a fixable and workable situation stop you from visiting your special spot!

Hope this helped and happy hobbying!

In my opinion, any warm, comforting talk about safety & security for the client & MA staff blah, blah, blah....is just pure nonsense. PURE BS! What a load of S**t!
Any talk about acceptance of a video surveillance world is just nonsense. Anyone who tries to justify use of cameras in the name of society & truth & the Canadian Way...etc - holy cow. Just what kind of hole are we digging here?

Let's just be a little clear about who's interests we're serving. In the sex trade, girls and customers are just dollar meat. MP owners only care about the $$ numbers. The only thing MP owners care about is the daily return. If they don't make money because they're getting screwed by their own staff then they fail. That's why they have cameras. They need to count customers to hold the MAs accountable.
Trust me. I know.

Spa owners don't give a RAT'S TAIL about the security of their staff or their clientele. Period. They don't. If somebody causes trouble, what are they going to do?? - call the cops? That's the last thing they will do. Wear a baseball cap?? Ohh, for goodness sake!... Fine. Wear a baseball cap to hide your identity - just goes to show the owner just needs to prove a body showed-up.

CMJ Quote: " We live in a big brother society, there are CCTV cameras all over, watching you, monitoring you ensuring your compliance with our social norms and values."

Yes, you happen to live in a big brother society. What's your point? We should accept your camera policy?
I don't want to live in your world and I won't pay you to live in your big brother society.

 

[gustave55]

Spa owners don't give a RAT'S TAIL about the security of their staff or their clientele. Period.

How do you know that? How many SPA owners have you ever met?

It's normal and OK to have cameras in the lobby to protect the business itself, the staff and the clients. Just like for any business. Most insurance company give you no choice o have them, and all police services will highly recommend them. I'd suggest you simply stop going the massage parlors because most of them have lobby or entrance cameras. They certainly make me feel safer.

 

[CMJ]

In my opinion, any warm, comforting talk about safety & security for the client & MA staff blah, blah, blah....is just pure nonsense. PURE BS! What a load of S**t!
Any talk about acceptance of a video surveillance world is just nonsense. Anyone who tries to justify use of cameras in the name of society & truth & the Canadian Way...etc - holy cow. Just what kind of hole are we digging here?

Let's just be a little clear about who's interests we're serving. In the sex trade, girls and customers are just dollar meat. MP owners only care about the $$ numbers. The only thing MP owners care about is the daily return. If they don't make money because they're getting screwed by their own staff then they fail. That's why they have cameras. They need to count customers to hold the MAs accountable.
Trust me. I know.

Spa owners don't give a RAT'S TAIL about the security of their staff or their clientele. Period. They don't. If somebody causes trouble, what are they going to do?? - call the cops? That's the last thing they will do. Wear a baseball cap?? Ohh, for goodness sake!... Fine. Wear a baseball cap to hide your identity - just goes to show the owner just needs to prove a body showed-up.

CMJ Quote: " We live in a big brother society, there are CCTV cameras all over, watching you, monitoring you ensuring your compliance with our social norms and values."

Yes, you happen to live in a big brother society. What's your point? We should accept your camera policy?
I don't want to live in your world and I won't pay you to live in your big brother society.

I am not sure which spas you visit, or owners you associate yourself with, though I can only imagine... where would you even get such a horrible idea to refer to the women in this industry as MONEY MEAT? That's distributing to say the least. I can guarantee you that you are sadly mistaken when it comes to the vast majority. I have bent over backwards to help many of my staff, financially, personally, emotionally, spiritually including raising money for a staff member who wasn't able to work due to an injury. I also know Veronica & Vitto (owners of ALO) are very caring and generous towards their staff.

And yes, I do call the police if we have a problem, why wouldn't I? I run a legal business and am entitled to the same protection and support as any other business.... recently a former staff member stole about 1,200. Her and her accomplice were charged with theft and are making their way through our fine justice system as we speak.

Do I agree with everything Big Brother is doing? No... but do I believe business owners and individual to have a right to security... hell yes.

I am not going to enter a pissing contest with you... I don't have a dick, so it wouldn't be a fair contest - I'm entitled to my opinion - after all, I've only been in the adult business 14 years, worked at 8 different spas all across Canada and internationally and have had my own business 9 years... I obviously have NO IDEA what I am talking about.

Cheers!

 

[vitto]

I just want to clarify that I do not own ALO... But yes I am very close to the owner and I do help with managing issues... as many of you already know...
And Jabba you arr absolutely wrong when you say all managers and spa owners care about is the money.. being a woman and also in my case I work too. So I want my working conditions as everyone else's to be the safest and most comfortable
Also remember that many of us have family members and friends that have no idea about this part of our lives... so we are concerned about our privacy

 

[Macadamia]

Java and Sugarman shame on you.

 

[Jabba]

I am not sure which spas you visit, or owners you associate yourself with, though I can only imagine... where would you even get such a horrible idea to refer to the women in this industry as MONEY MEAT? That's distributing to say the least. I can guarantee you that you are sadly mistaken when it comes to the vast majority. I have bent over backwards to help many of my staff, financially, personally, emotionally, spiritually including raising money for a staff member who wasn't able to work due to an injury. I also know Veronica & Vitto (owners of ALO) are very caring and generous towards their staff.

And yes, I do call the police if we have a problem, why wouldn't I? I run a legal business and am entitled to the same protection and support as any other business.... recently a former staff member stole about 1,200. Her and her accomplice were charged with theft and are making their way through our fine justice system as we speak.

Do I agree with everything Big Brother is doing? No... but do I believe business owners and individual to have a right to security... hell yes.

I am not going to enter a pissing contest with you... I don't have a dick, so it wouldn't be a fair contest - I'm entitled to my opinion - after all, I've only been in the adult business 14 years, worked at 8 different spas all across Canada and internationally and have had my own business 9 years... I obviously have NO IDEA what I am talking about.

Cheers!

Lol - pissing contest? Really?
You claim that 14 years have somehow taught you how to handle all this as a "pissing contest"? ummm... ok.

I've been at this a whole lot longer than 14 years.
I've been around since 1992. But maybe I just don't know what the hell I''m talking about?

This discussion somehow now involves dicks?
Does it come to that?
By all means, let's involve genitalia to lend justification to your opinions. And just for fun, why don't we imply a little bit of misogyny and gender hatred?
I for one, prefer to keep the discussion on equal terms...but that's just me.

I definitely believe you believe what you want to believe and you will articulate just about anything to justify your POV. Good for you. *Sigh* oh well.

From your response, I want to believe that cameras are good. Does everyone else agree?

 

[gustave55]

I've been at this a whole lot longer than 9 years.
I've been around since 1992. But maybe I just don't know what the hell I''m talking about?

You're not helping your case with this. I could excuse ignorance form a newbie. But 25 years in it? Must be that you see pretty much everybody like a piece of meat.

 

[lunalo]

I understand but I think there is people that truly care about the Industry. Is not an easy job believe me. And I always make clear if someone is with us is because they wish to. I have a story that many of you guys dont know... many years ago when I started on industry I did work for a guy wont mention his name when I tried to quit he did blackmail me for very long time until I was feed up with situation and thats why I will never hired anyone if they dont come to me.

 

[lunalo]

At least something good came out of... many of you meet Kelly and Maya from VIP Studio on bank, and the whole ALO story came from there... I guess another night. But my point is I do care and many others do... no everyone has dark intentions, yes is a business, but is a business that I created and I love

 

[gustave55]

And what if a disgruntled employee takes an apple right out of the oven and smashes it onto your nylon slacks? And what if she poisons your bottle of water? What if she installs a bucket of boiling water on the top of the door of the shower? What if installs a hidden camera in your room? Parlors are for paranoid guys.

 

[Macadamia]

That's a whole lot of back pedalling lol !

Shame on me for agreeing with some of his post? LOL. I thought this was a board for discussion based on experience and knowledge. Oh and btw I don't think girls are "money meat" for your reference. But I do agree with him that some owners/employers of these places treat them like that and it's very unfortunate. Just look at how some places hire their girls for instance. But you know, least he had the balls to bring it to the attention of others, and not paint everything as rosy as many hobbyists would like to imagine it in their minds. It's easy to over and over again paint a girl with glowing reviews, or promote something/or someone, or think everything is so golden. When it is, that's great. But it's hard to post the real hard reviews or discuss difficult topics when you see shit happen to people, or experience it with your own eyes. I respect the people who post with honesty and integrity based off their experiences way more than those who just would rather ignore, or sugarcoat the shit outta this hobby when in a real matter of fact everything isn't rosy.

In relation to video surveillance, I personally don't like it, but I also realize that is often essential to protect working girls/the business as a whole. It's part in parcel with the risk that hobbyists take when engaging in this hobby. At the end of the day, you have no control on how its used,stored,watched, etc. But to dull it down, it is what it is.

 

[dynomyte]

I will give CMJ this much credit, the did not deny using cameras, but I will also say that their reasons for doing so don't add up. If they are concerned with the safety of the people in the building, why are they recommending that people disguise themselves by wearing a hat or hoodie? Does this not go contrary to what they are trying to accomplish? Also, saying that we live in a society with cameras is a cop out. CMJ sells themselves as a private members lounge. What the hell is so private about cameras at the door? If it truly were private, do they not control who is in their building at every given time? Then why the need for cameras. CMJ was my fav but sadly, this has convinced me to stick with indies, especially since it is seemingly becoming the norm for agencies to have cameras. Does anyone know if Angels or Paradise also use cameras to spy on..... I mean protect their staff and patrons?

 

[CMJ]

I think Sugarman nailed it. We, hobbyist, no way of knowing how these videos are being used, stored, watched etc.

For Gustave55 last comments, you are just being silly. Did you read CMJ comment about her ex-employee stole her money? What do you think now if videos were missing or copying instead of money?

And did you read where I wrote that any decent DVR security camera system is encrypted and has a password to be able to gain access to the footage?


And yes the dirty is a disgusting pathetic blog that desperate people use in an attempt to slander and wreak havoc on people's lives. However under the new cyber bulling laws, it's just a matter of time before that website starts getting slammed with lawsuits that send it into cyber hell once in for all.

Why anyone would even support the blog by reading it is beyond me? It reminds me of that loser who had the Ottawa leaks blog.

 

[CMJ]

I will give CMJ this much credit, the did not deny using cameras, but I will also say that their reasons for doing so don't add up. If they are concerned with the safety of the people in the building, why are they recommending that people disguise themselves by wearing a hat or hoodie? Does this not go contrary to what they are trying to accomplish? Also, saying that we live in a society with cameras is a cop out. CMJ sells themselves as a private members lounge. What the hell is so private about cameras at the door? If it truly were private, do they not control who is in their building at every given time? Then why the need for cameras. CMJ was my fav but sadly, this has convinced me to stick with indies, especially since it is seemingly becoming the norm for agencies to have cameras. Does anyone know if Angels or Paradise also use cameras to spy on..... I mean protect their staff and patrons?

I believe I made myself abundantly clear along with others who posted. Other then common sense reasons, insurance companies require it, if a crime is committed we can do something about it. Without having a security system you would be left open to God knows what...

Respect and privacy goes both way...

You don't need to disguise yourself with a hoodie, you could have asked us to use the back door - the minute you book we know who you are anyways, we have been expecting you to ring our doorbell - please contact me via PM or please call and I will be sure to cancel your membership, get your membership forms back for you for immediate destruction - after all, if you can't trust us with a simple video, how could u have trusted us with the entire membership process? Doesn't make sense to me!
However I respect everyone's right to choose - one needs to be 160% comfortable with what they are doing. If you aren't, it's your gut talking to you and you should listen. Again, I'm here to assist you and will be more then enthused to revoke your membership so that you can have complete peace of mind.

And yes, As previously mentioned repeatedly by many terbites now, everywhere has cameras - even in the lobbies of your independents.

As some of your fellow terbites have suggested, this hobby isn't for you.

)

Cheers,

 

[greganderson24]

i think due to the nature of the business there will be cameras. i'm sure agencies use cameras as well inside their condos.

 

[vitto]

All I can say and whether being spa or independent you have the chance of running into cameras... FYI every apartment buiding and hotels have cameras installed at the doors , lobbies and corridors..., (and the more upscale... the more cameras... ) and to make it even worse at those apartment buildings and hotels you dont even know who is looking at this recordings... so if you are really that concern like many said before... you better stop hobbying... period!

 

[greganderson24]

the problem is not that there are cameras in the lobby or any entrance. you are just an innocent in a public place for anyone concerned. i'm more worried about cameras inside the establishments that 'catch you in the act'

 

[dynomyte]

Hotel lobby or condo lobby, no problem, you can be there for whatever reason so cameras are not that big of a deal. the lobby of any luna or cmj spa, you are there for one reason. as was said earlier, the issue of cameras in the establishment could be that much more of a problem. There was always a high expectation of discretion and privacy either explicitly stated or implicitly ensured at these spas, but clearly discretion and privacy includes video taping you???? To answer CMJs question why I would sign up in the first place and fill out a form....well I was naive enough to believe in your discretion and respect for privacy that you claimed and I was unaware that I was being video taped. simply put, I was lied to and will no longer trust a company that treats their clients like this. I could care less that it is the norm in the business now, that is not what was presented when I joined nor was it ever mentioned to me at any point. I had to find out about it on this site.

 

[Hotchilly]

....... To answer CMJs question why I would sign up in the first place and fill out a form.....

I have 2 questions for CMJ or dynomyte or possibly another reader of this thread regarding an important detail about signing up for membership at CMJ: When filling out the application form, does CMJ expect prospective members to provide their real names, addresses, etc.? Does CMJ look at ID?

I am just curious.

 

[Jabba]

Whoa, dude, maybe you shoulda taken a deep breath before posting? You should read this stuff back to yourself.

Lol - Oh, I know. I do tend to go over the top, don't I?
I like to throw in a little spunk to keep the forum from getting too bland...but maybe a bit too much?