Vaccine passports not an infringement on human rights: OHRC

[PeteOsborne]

I thought the early stages, they weren't enforcing it to allow businesses to adapt to the changes as some businesses will make mistakes. This place must have outright ignored the law (like not even asking for vaccine receipts) to get shut down and lose its license.

They were visited at first and were instructed as to what was needed to be compliant.
"According to the Registrar, on September 10, AGCO compliance officials (COs) visited J.A.K.K. Tuesdays and, during the inspection, they informed the restaurant about the requirements of the Reopening Ontario Act (ROA)."
Bylaw officials visited on the 23rd after complaints were issued and when they revisited on the 24th to find the business was still not complying they were charged.
Then AGCO visited on Sept 28th after receiving news of the charges
"After the restaurant received provincial notices, an AGCO CO visited the restaurant only to find they still weren't complying with the ROA."
"As a result, the Registrar considers it to be necessary in the public interest to immediately suspend the liquor licence."

Now bylaw and police are done with warnings, laying $200,000 in fines at one house party.
https://ygknews.ca/2021/09/28/house-party-in-kingstons-university-200000-in-fines/

 

[Jenesis]

Tomato tomahto

Exactly. It is the same thing force by manipulation instead of force by force.

 

[fall]

Exactly. It is the same thing force by manipulation instead of force by force.

Yep, I guess, aboriginals also had a choice to go live in woods or let their children to be taken to residential schools. No one forced them: they were free to go move far north or even to anywhere in the world. They chose to stay, thus, they chose to put children to residential schools. Nice logic.

 

[basketcase]

Exactly. It is the same thing force by manipulation instead of force by force.

Every choice has consequences that can be seen as manipulation. In this case, the seriousness of the health risk and the safety of the precautions have been ruled reasonable by our court system. To add, the consequences of not being vaccinated are not things considered covered by human rights but rather luxuries of being in a society that the vast majority of those unvaxxed are choosing not to respect.

 

[seagerbuzz]

Every choice has consequences that can be seen as manipulation. In this case, the seriousness of the health risk and the safety of the precautions have been ruled reasonable by our court system. To add, the consequences of not being vaccinated are not things considered covered by human rights but rather luxuries of being in a society that the vast majority of those unvaxxed are choosing not to respect.

It wasn't the court system that but these rules in place. It was the politicians that just decided to implement then based an the advice from the so called health experts. They have no merit.

 

[Jenesis]

Every choice has consequences that can be seen as manipulation. In this case, the seriousness of the health risk and the safety of the precautions have been ruled reasonable by our court system. To add, the consequences of not being vaccinated are not things considered covered by human rights but rather luxuries of being in a society that the vast majority of those unvaxxed are choosing not to respect.

Again, I get the “work around”.

I’m calling it for what it is. Forced vaccination by manipulation. You are entitled to call it whatever you want.

 

[basketcase]

It wasn't the court system that but these rules in place. It was the politicians that just decided to implement then based an the advice from the so called health experts. They have no merit.

You mean our elected elected government enacted something and our courts have supported them?

 

[basketcase]

Again, I get the “work around”.

I’m calling it for what it is. Forced vaccination by manipulation. You are entitled to call it whatever you want.

I get what you're argument is but we will still have some percentage of people who choose not to get vaccinated. If there are people opting out then I have a hard time describing it as forced.

 

[Jenesis]

I get what you're argument is but we will still have some percentage of people who choose not to get vaccinated. If there are people opting out then I have a hard time describing it as forced.

So because some don’t, all the others that did because they felt forced to don’t matter????

Bottomline, we don’t agree. You are all for it, I’m against. Neither of us is changing the mind of the other. So I will continue to call it out for what it is and you can continue to disagree with me.

 

[Malibuk]

Again, I get the “work around”.

I’m calling it for what it is. Forced vaccination by manipulation. You are entitled to call it whatever you want.

People who need the vaccine to keep their job could reasonably say that it is forced, not that it is an unreasonable requirement.

Claiming that it is forced because you can`t go inside a restaurant or gym is bullshit.

 

[Valcazar]

Claiming that it is forced because you can`t go inside a restaurant or gym is bullshit.

There is entire tradition that says all laws are inherently force.
If I put "no shirt, no shoes, no service" on my business, I am forcing you to comply.

 

[Malibuk]

There is entire tradition that says all laws are inherently force.
If I put "no shirt, no shoes, no service" on my business, I am forcing you to comply.

We are talking about non-essential (optional) so no you are not forcing me to comply.

I have some close friends who absolutely love to play hockey.
Some would even say it is essential to their physical and mental health.
Now they are out, not forced to take the vaccine.

 

[Jenesis]

People who need the vaccine to keep their job could reasonably say that it is forced, not that it is an unreasonable requirement.

Claiming that it is forced because you can`t go inside a restaurant or gym is bullshit.

Again, your opinion. Not mine.

The objective of the vaccine passport is not for safety like masks, social distancing and lockdowns. Those were for safety.

This vaccine passport is set up to force people. That is the objective 1000%. To make more people get the vaccine by punishment. That to me is force by manipulation. That is what I consider it to be.

Just like others - you will not change my mind about that.

 

[Malibuk]

Again, your opinion. Not mine.

The objective of the vaccine passport is not for safety like masks, social distancing and lockdowns. Those were for safety.

This vaccine passport is set up to force people. That is the objective 1000%. To make more people get the vaccine by punishment. That to me is force by manipulation. That is what I consider it to be.

Just like others - you will not change my mind about that.

Can you give us some examples of people who are forced to take the vaccine because of the passport mandate?

If the TTC required a passport and I didn't have a car, that is not like I can't go to the movie.

 

[Jenesis]

Can you give us some examples of people who are forced to take the vaccine because of the passport mandate?

If the TTC required a passport and I didn't have a car, that is not like I can't go to the movie.

Again, you have your opinion and I have mine.

Mine is that the government sat around and asked themselves how do we get more people to vaccine. Someone said “we can’t hold them down and force them”. Someone else said then how can we make them and someone said “ take away everything they like and that will force them to do it”.

That is the basic convo I believe happened.

If this was for safety, I would be on board but this is not at all about safety. It is to force people by the manipulation of consequence.

I’m a parent. I know you can “force” a kid to do anything so you use consequence and reward to force them into the choice you want them to make. This is no different.

The objective is clear and I’m calling it for what it is.

You don’t have to agree. I’m not forcing you. I’m accepting that you don’t agree. I’m not calling you names for it or putting you down. I’m accepting of your choice to disagree. That is more then y’all are giving those who don’t want to be injected with something they don’t trust.

I trust it. I got vaccinated but I draw the line at this forced vaccine passport system. EOD

 

[Malibuk]

Again, you have your opinion and I have mine.

Mine is that the government sat around and asked themselves how do we get more people to vaccine. Someone said “we can’t hold them down and force them”. Someone else said then how can we make them and someone said “ take away everything they like and that will force them to do it”.

That is the basic convo I believe happened.

If this was for safety, I would be on board but this is not at all about safety. It is to force people by the manipulation of consequence.

I’m a parent. I know you can “force” a kid to do anything so you use consequence and reward to force them into the choice you want them to make. This is no different.

The objective is clear and I’m calling it for what it is.

You don’t have to agree. I’m not forcing you. I’m accepting that you don’t agree. I’m not calling you names for it or putting you down. I’m accepting of your choice to disagree. That is more then y’all are giving those who don’t want to be injected with something they don’t trust.

I trust it. I got vaccinated but I draw the line at this forced vaccine passport system. EOD

Your definition of the word forced is not the same as mine.

Professional hockey player Duncan Keith can make a reasonable argument that he is being forced to take the vaccine.
The fan who would like to go to the game cannot.

 

[Jenesis]

Your definition of the word forced is not the same as mine.

Professional hockey player Duncan Keith can make a reasonable argument that he is being forced to take the vaccine.
The fan who would like to go to the game cannot.

Ok. Again. Your opinion. Not mine. I have been clear it is force by manipulation in my opinion.

Do you seriously want to keep going in circles? I know your stance, you know mine. I’m not trying to change yours. Unless you are trying to change mine which won’t happen, why are you still going back and forth with me on this?

We don’t agree. Ok. Moving on now

 

[squeezer]

Ok. Again. Your opinion. Not mine. I have been clear it is force by manipulation in my opinion.

Do you seriously want to keep going in circles? I know your stance, you know mine. I’m not trying to change yours. Unless you are trying to change mine which won’t happen, why are you still going back and forth with me on this?

We don’t agree. Ok. Moving on now

Jen, I agree with you. It is a gentle push to get something done for the good of society. My only complaint is it doesn't go far enough. I wish I were in charge, it would not be a gentle push but a hard shove into compliance!!!!

 

[Jenesis]

Jen, I agree with you. It is a gentle push to get something done for the good of society. My only complaint is it doesn't go far enough. I wish I were in charge, it would not be a gentle push but a hard shove into compliance!!!!

I’m not going in circles with you either. You know what I think and why. More then others, you know why.

 

[squeezer]

I’m not going in circles with you either. You know what I think and why. More then others, you know why.

I do know why and no circles are required. I said I agree with your thinking of it being basically a push into vaccination by removing privileges. We don't disagree on the why. I'm only saying I wish Ford was even stricter with more mandates but that is only my hope and opinion..